Anthony Joshua

[dempseyfire]

He looks promising, but I feel he's already overrated. He's big, seems to have good power and physical strength, picks his punches well, and can handle himself fairly well from various ranges. However, he's also stiff, a bit lumbering on his feet, has no more than average speed imo, and his stamina and chin haven't been tested yet as pro.

I think of lot of people are basing their lofty predictions of success on his amateur career and not anything he's done professionally--which I understand given that his amateur success suggests a high level of ability--but we all know that being a top amateur doesn't mean one will become an elite pro.

Especially given most feel he didn't even deserve the gold at the Olympics. His sense of distance and timing still strike me as lacking. But in such a shallow division it seems clear he'll easily be top 10 and likely top 5 in the post Klitschko era.

[lefty]

He looks promising, but I feel he's already overrated. He's big, seems to have good power and physical strength, picks his punches well, and can handle himself fairly well from various ranges. However, he's also stiff, a bit lumbering on his feet, has no more than average speed imo, and his stamina and chin haven't been tested yet as pro.

I think of lot of people are basing their lofty predictions of success on his amateur career and not anything he's done professionally--which I understand given that his amateur success suggests a high level of ability--but we all know that being a top amateur doesn't mean one will become an elite pro.

I'm with you mate. I think he'll be a top world level fighter but I do think he's overrated. For instance Riddick really isnt a fan of Wlad's and I can understand why some feel that way with the holding, etc, but I think for instance that Wlad moves a lot better for a big man than Joshua does.

[dwise26]

He looks athletic but untested.

[Bard of Boxrec]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

[scallum]

He looks very promising to me and looks to be the most polished of all the upcoming Heavies.

[dominik]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

He is a good boxer and very good athlete but I too think that his handspeed is not really great. He is not slow but his handspeed is probably average. Against fast handed fighters (say haye or so) he Needs to tighten up his defense and avoid being beat to the Punch.

still I do think he will be a world Champion one day. he is tall, can box and likely take a Punch too.

[crusader]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

The stiffness thing isn't bogus and his combinations aren't fast.

Is this your new hope? I remember when it was Price in Joshua's shoes. Funny how you rag on Wllad and attribute so much of his success to the supposed weakness of his opponents, yet you have no problems proclaiming how various untested fighters are superior.

[Taansend]

I like Joshua the person. Still undecided on him as a boxer but time will tell.

I think Hughie is a better pure boxer right now but he's been boxing since he could walk. Joshua still fairly green despite his Olympic experience.

As for now I'm just enjoying seeing them both develop.

[Bard of Boxrec]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

The stiffness thing isn't bogus and his combinations aren't fast.

Is this your new hope? I remember when it was Price in Joshua's shoes. Funny how you rag on Wllad and attribute so much of his success to the supposed weakness of his opponents, yet you have no problems proclaiming how various untested fighters are superior.

I didn't say he was superior. I said his punch artillery is superior. Which it clearly is, even at this early stage. Joshua has the skills and athleticism to develop into something more than just a jab and grab bore. On the evidence of your post, noone is allowed to discuss prospects because they haven't done anything to even speculate on their future.

His hands aren't fast? Watch the hook he whips round at 6:56, the quick jab throughout,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMchbyiTH_4

1:25 here, at times messy, but clearly a quick combination
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI7meyDGj0A

He is fast for a big guy and mobile for a bulky guy. Few guys if any on the scene now of Joshua's size who can put together shots like that.

[crusader]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

The stiffness thing isn't bogus and his combinations aren't fast.

Is this your new hope? I remember when it was Price in Joshua's shoes. Funny how you rag on Wllad and attribute so much of his success to the supposed weakness of his opponents, yet you have no problems proclaiming how various untested fighters are superior.

I didn't say he was superior. I said his punch artillery is superior. Which it clearly is, even at this early stage. Joshua has the skills and athleticism to develop into something more than just a jab and grab bore. On the evidence of your post, noone is allowed to discuss prospects because they haven't done anything to even speculate on their future.

His hands aren't fast? Watch the hook he whips round at 6:56, the quick jab throughout,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMchbyiTH_4

1:25 here, at times messy, but clearly a quick combination
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI7meyDGj0A

He is fast for a big guy. Few guys if any on the scene now of Joshua's size who can put together shots like that.

You're right that you didn't suggest that he was superior generally, but if I recall correctly in many of your posts you imply that certain fighters who are untested or have much weaker resumes than Wlad would beat him or have great chances of doing so, and you have no trouble praising their abilities even though you reduce virtually everything Wlad does to the opposition he faces. So you suggest that much of Wlad's dominance is down to his poor opponents, while failing to apply the same standard to those you hype, an example being your glowing reviews of Price based on him stopping domestic fodder like Sexton, McD, and Skelton prior to stepping up and looking much less impressive against TT.

As for Joshua, he's very promising and shows several good qualities that I mentioned before, but I don't think he's fast (as dominik says he's not slow either) and I especially don't think he's fluid. I watched the Darch video and found far more examples of average handspeed than above average handspeed (see his right hand at 6:28) and his jab doesn't seem quick to me. As for the lack of fluidity, in most of his bouts his legs are hardly bent and he's generally tensed as he moves, which is very common with fighters who started late and haven't been competing long (I see it in Wilder too) and those who are heavily-muscled (and that someone may not be too stiff for such a big, bulky person doesn't mean they're not stiff relative to most).

[Bard of Boxrec]

I admit I was high on Price at one time and might have said he could be capable of stopping Wlad. It was a prediction, not sure what's wrong with that. He's a novice in the pro ranks but people comment on potential at this stage. Joshua has a ton of it.

I feel like Joshua is a different level to Price based on his skillset he's demonstrating and from what I've seen from him in the amateurs, combined with the way he's rolled through his foes so far and that he's about to be matched fairly tough. And no, I don't like Wlad, for reasons I've revealed enough before. We'll have to agree to disagree on the speed and fluidity thing.

[Counter-puncher]

He looks promising, but I feel he's already overrated. He's big, seems to have good power and physical strength, picks his punches well, and can handle himself fairly well from various ranges. However, he's also stiff, a bit lumbering on his feet, has no more than average speed imo, and his stamina and chin haven't been tested yet as pro.

I think of lot of people are basing their lofty predictions of success on his amateur career and not anything he's done professionally--which I understand given that his amateur success suggests a high level of ability--but we all know that being a top amateur doesn't mean one will become an elite pro.

I'm with you mate. I think he'll be a top world level fighter but I do think he's overrated. For instance Riddick really isnt a fan of Wlad's and I can understand why some feel that way with the holding, etc, but I think for instance that Wlad moves a lot better for a big man than Joshua does.

macho said a long time ago on the brit forum, Joshua is athletic but not fluid. he's right.

[Gnome]

Joshua against Sexton or McDermott please.

That said, his next two opponents are a very nice move by his management - maybe Sexton and Big Bad John can have a run at Hughie instead?

[Ian1973]

There's not much wrong with David Price other than he simply cannot take a punch. For a heavyweight that is one hell of a handicap unless you have the skill set and ring craft that Wladamir has. Joshua so far is completely untested. We don't know if he has a chin, we don't know if he has stamina limitations, we don't know how he'll react to someone he can't blast his way through.

[lillywhite14]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

I think he lofted before he took the sport up.

The stiffness thing is a little lazy. As you say, for such a muscular bloke, he is actually pretty loose and puts his shots together well.

He is ticking over well considering he is a pup. I just hope he is getting top sparring. I never hear stories about him travelling to Germany to seek out Wlad etc

[DMA1987]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

I think he lofted before he took the sport up.

The stiffness thing is a little lazy. As you say, for such a muscular bloke, he is actually pretty loose and puts his shots together well.

He is ticking over well considering he is a pup. I just hope he is getting top sparring. I never hear stories about him travelling to Germany to seek out Wlad etc

He has become a lot more fluid in his more recent fights, maybe he was a little stiff in his first couple. But it's also something he said he needed to work on, and it's something he has obviously improved. Which is what you want from a novice, improvement.

Some people let their hate of the hype attached to him cloud their judgement, or plain level things at him which have become trendy.

[pugilisticprofessor]

He looked good against Skelton, but that was the worst version of him that I ever seen and he still managed to land a few good rights on AJ.
Hopefully he can improve that before he takes another shot like that against the wrong guy.

[crusader]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

I think he lofted before he took the sport up.

The stiffness thing is a little lazy. As you say, for such a muscular bloke, he is actually pretty loose and puts his shots together well.

He is ticking over well considering he is a pup. I just hope he is getting top sparring. I never hear stories about him travelling to Germany to seek out Wlad etc

How is the stiffness thing lazy? He admitted it was a problem and the fact that he may not be too stiff for such a muscular guy doesn't mean he's not stiff.

[lillywhite14]

The 'stiffness' thing is bogus. He is pretty damn fluid for such a muscled guy and he puts together fast combinations with excellent variety. Watching him then watching Wlad is night and day in terms of the punch artillery Joshua has at his disposal.

He would be even more mobile if he hadn't been so heavy on the damn weights, but some of these guys just don't get it. It might be because he came to boxing fairly late though and already had a muscleman figure.

I think he lofted before he took the sport up.

The stiffness thing is a little lazy. As you say, for such a muscular bloke, he is actually pretty loose and puts his shots together well.

He is ticking over well considering he is a pup. I just hope he is getting top sparring. I never hear stories about him travelling to Germany to seek out Wlad etc

How is the stiffness thing lazy? He admitted it was a problem and the fact that he may not be too stiff for such a muscular guy doesn't mean he's not stiff.

People see the muscular frame, remember back to the Savon fight where Joshua should have lost, although he did not show up at all that night, and they refuse to believe anything other than he is some kind of stiff, robotic plodder.

[crusader]

Who thinks Joshua is nothing other than a robotic plodder? I haven't seen anyone suggest that and I doubt that it's commonly suggested.

Joshua admitted that he needs to work on not being so stiff and many other people have noticed it in his pro fights, so I think it's a valid criticism, not a 'lazy' one.

[lefty]

I think he lofted before he took the sport up.

The stiffness thing is a little lazy. As you say, for such a muscular bloke, he is actually pretty loose and puts his shots together well.

He is ticking over well considering he is a pup. I just hope he is getting top sparring. I never hear stories about him travelling to Germany to seek out Wlad etc

How is the stiffness thing lazy? He admitted it was a problem and the fact that he may not be too stiff for such a muscular guy doesn't mean he's not stiff.

People see the muscular frame, remember back to the Savon fight where Joshua should have lost, although he did not show up at all that night, and they refuse to believe anything other than he is some kind of stiff, robotic plodder.

There's no way he moves aswell as Wladimir though and I use him as an example as another guy who was a top amateur, etc and Joshua is being massively hyped like that aswell so it's a good comparison.

[dominik]

How is the stiffness thing lazy? He admitted it was a problem and the fact that he may not be too stiff for such a muscular guy doesn't mean he's not stiff.[/quote]

People see the muscular frame, remember back to the Savon fight where Joshua should have lost, although he did not show up at all that night, and they refuse to believe anything other than he is some kind of stiff, robotic plodder.[/quote]

well savon is extremely fluid and fast so of course joshua looked rather slow and stiff compared to him. however I think that the fight was rather close because joshua is a better fundamental boxer compared to savon who is a better natural athlete (sick speed).

I don't think that joshua is particularly slow, his speed is still above average but not by much. he is a good fundamental boxer however, he learned that craft well in the amateurs and that wil help him.

he also was in the ring with a lot of very good amateurs so I asume his chin is at least not terrible.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Was just watching the Airich fight and I was reminded of the speed discussion. Crusader, watch the one-two Joshua puts together at 3:48. Can you honestly tell me he doesn't have fast hands?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db6gcrxYM8M

4.28 the left hook he whips in, the lead right at 4.33, 5.54, 9.43 when he flurries.

Joshua would beat Chagaev tomorrow. I think he would do Fury too if he fought him next.

[crusader]

He put certain shots together more quickly than I've seen and he looked more relaxed than usual, but I still wouldn't consider him generally fast-handed and if he were perhaps you could just say look at the punches he throws from start to finish rather than selectively listing 4 instances of speed in 3 rounds. Most of his shots, especially the singles and two punch combinations, aren't what I'd consider fast.

[dempseyfire]

He put certain shots together more quickly than I've seen and he looked more relaxed than usual, but I still wouldn't consider him generally fast-handed and if he were perhaps you could just say look at the punches he throws from start to finish rather than selectively listing 4 instances of speed in 3 rounds. Most of his shots, especially the singles and two punch combinations, aren't what I'd consider fast.

I agree.

He also reacts awkwardly when his opponents surmount a (rare) bout of offense. Those who think he'd have ANY chance at Klitschko are delusional. Pulev and Povetkin would also beat him right now.