RockY Marciano different styles? 1951/52 vs 1954/55

[marchegianorock]

Looks to me and probably for most of the boxrec members that Rocky changed a little bit his style of fighting. the 1951/52 Marciano threw less punches but more power. Can ko you with 1 or 2 punches. The 1954/55 Marciano threw more punches with less power but was more agressive. Do you agree?

[misterpunch]

you may be right although I have never heard that Charlie goldman changed anything about rocky stylistically after he reached the top. good call though

[Ezzard]

I'm pretty sure I read something that Goldman did look to change his style. Could be wrong though.

he became more of a volume puncher, definitely so.

[HomicideHenry]

The Marciano, pre champion, was a more devestating puncher--- yes--- however, defensively, he was at his weakest. He was more of a buller, than a bobber and weaver as he would later become. Because he changed things up, it took something out of his all around power punching. But even at his 'weakest' guys like Moore and Charles and Walcott all said Marciano hit them the hardest of anyone they ever faced.

[cfang]

This is actually very true and something I'd never really given much thought to. There's a change in him for sure. He was certainly more about loading up one big shot earlier on and later more of a swarmer. I think he'd have taken out don cockell earlier with the more measured approach.

[Caractacus]

I had read that his trainer changed his style some just before the second fight with Roland LaStarza in 1953,mainly to shortin up his punches
and protecting his stomach with his elbows,so he didnt bring the'Suzy-Q up from near the floor as much anymore.
pp 75-76.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BH4LHM ... g=PA175&dq

[misterpunch]

that's interesting - I'm prepared to accept your theory - Marciano is a very intriguing heavyweight. I hope his stock rises as it has suffered a little in the last few years.

[Crease]

Fascinating topic. To be honest, if there was changes in his approach then they were very subtle and minimal (at most), definitely something which should not be overstated, which could lead to exaggeration.

He was more of a buller, than a bobber and weaver as he would later become.

I find that a peculiar way of describing him. If anything, I'd say that The Rock fought out of crouch and that he always stayed low throughout his career. Undoubtedly he did so his share of "bob and weave" but it's not the peek-a-boo style that has become iconic with Tyson, which most people would describe as "bob and weave".

I had read that his trainer changed his style some just before the second fight with Roland LaStarza in 1953, mainly to shortin up his punches

By the same token, it's not like The Rock had difficulty in judging his punches. I admit that (at times) he would get frustrated and swing a big left hook, or jump in with a straight right, which in itself could be described as "reaching for it" too much. But for me, that just made him unpredictable and all the more dangerous. He was a full-blooded animal of a fighter who was ruthless.

From the very outset of his career, Goldman told The Rock that he would be looking to throw short punches and that he'd have to stay low to avoid the long/mid range punches as he made his way in to the inside. These sorts of things were discussed and agreed early on.

[Caractacus]

that's interesting - I'm prepared to accept your theory - Marciano is a very intriguing heavyweight. I hope his stock rises as it has suffered a little in the last few years.

Well,I dont really have any theories myself
(Albert Einstein and Galelao had theories).
I just remember I had read some stuff a lot of years ago and I repeated it here.
BTW What are these 'revisionist of today credentials,in that they can decide alone just how good(or bad) that The Rock was anyway?
Did they see him fight or train in person?
what exactly is their inside information that they can draw their conclusions from?
or from their no doubt gigantic intellect that us mere mortal boxing fans do not possess?

[misterpunch]

you know very well that a top fighter can be rated very highly one year and not so highly the next. in recent years ezzard Charles stock has risen but now seems to be falling just a little. greb's position as top middleweight of all time which was solid 10 years ago has dropped and he now stands regularly at around 4 or 5 of all time in that weight class.

these are the fluctuations of the fancy, as pierce egan might have put it, and they will continue to change, ebb and flow according to the boxing zeitgeist.

[Caractacus]

Bump

[cfang]

I liked this post. First time I really considered the changes in Rocky's style. I still wonder if the slugger was more effective?

[Caractacus]

I had read that his trainer changed his style some just before the second fight with Roland LaStarza in 1953,mainly to shortin up his punches
and protecting his stomach with his elbows,so he didnt bring the' Suzy-Q up from near the floor as much anymore.
pp 75-76.

http://books.google.com/books?id=BH4LHM ... g=PA175&dq

Here you can see Marciano earlier in October 1951 fighting in a much more upright stance and mainly still trying to use one punch power for a knockout.

[Caractacus]

Marciano had the same type of style going into the fight with Lee Savold several months later in February 1952.
(although it could be my imagination but her seems to be fighting from a crouch a bit more in spots then in the Louis fight)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyB-yQ_RjRo

[Caractacus]

Marciano was still fighting in his up right stance and throwing the one shot big bombs when he challeneged for the Heavyweight Championship
of the World several months later in September 1952 (watch Jersey Joe Walcott really go after Marciano in the first round)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaKPg7gXtW4



Jump ahead a year later to September 1953 and we then can see Marciano (as The HW Champ)
fight Roland LaStarza (for a second time)
in the more familiar crouch,bobbing and weaving and volume punching style that he would employ for the rest of his boxing career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwk8bJbVqFE

[Caractacus]

Marciano was still fighting in his up right stance and throwing the one shot big bombs when he challenged for the Heavyweight Championship
of the World several months later in September 1952 (watch Jersey Joe Walcott really go after Marciano in the first round)





Jump ahead a year later to September 1953 and we then can see Marciano (as The HW Champ)
fight Roland LaStarza (for a second time)
in the more familiar crouch, bobbing and weaving and volume punching style that he would employ for the rest of his boxing career.

[Caractacus]

[Ezzard]

These days, a hugely under-appreciated fighter.

[Caractacus]

yeah, Did any Boxing site make mention that last September 1st
would have been Marciano's 100th Birthday ?

[Caractacus]

check out this early pro fight ( 36th)of Marciano, (July 1951)and how up-right he is fighting in it.
How effective would that style have been against Ezzard Charles or Archie Moore ?

[Caractacus]

[gilgamesh]

If Marciano changed his style noticeably it was probably as much from his own Ring IQ as it was his trainers instruction. Once he reached the top, and started facing that level of competition he started seeing first hand what he needed to improve upon.

[Caractacus]

C'Mon, you know it was all Charlie Goldman's idea.