Question about Bunce and Lillis...

[Boxing Prospect]

...have they actually seen Usyk and Lomachenko? Suggesting they have Soviet styles "like the Klitschko's" is a bewildering assessment. Both are well schooled technically for sure but they are fluid as anything. Usyk as about as un-soviet as you will find!

[Tarkus]

I think Loma, Usyk and Wladimir Klitschko have similar style considering there size differences. Its not Soviet though but Ukrainian style. It is Clearly distinct from Russian style, Tszyu, GGG, Kovalev. Soviet Union was a big country with multiple styles of boxing.

[Datsue]

I think Loma, Usyk and Wladimir Klitschko have similar style considering there size differences.

When. In. The. Name. Of. Fvck. Has. Wladdy. Ever. Utilised. Sharp. Lateral. Movement. Like. Lomachenko?

In fact, apart from having four limbs & wearing a pair of gloves, exactly how does Kltischko fight anything like Lomachenko? Wlad has always been an upright jab first boxer. Even allowing for the fact he's a southpaw, the line of Lomachenko's boxing, the angles he comes in at & utilises, the shots he leads with & the fvck-it actual style of his boxing is a thousand times removed from Klitschko.

Unless I'm being ignorant & you can point out some similarities for me? Show me videos of Wlad constantly moving laterally & switch-hitting fluidly with his chin down & shoulder over in a half-crouch? & all that body-punching he does? The leading with the rear hand & then stepping around to fire straight kinda half-shots from the other stance? All Wlad's blinding body/head combination punching?

I'm sorry if I'm being rude, but if you tattooed the side of Wlad's ribcage he wouldn't look like a giant Lomachenko, either. But he'd still look a lot more like him than he fights like him.

[Tarkus]

Klitschko style has evolved through out the years, but the philosophy of boxing is still the same. That is the control of distance using jab and footwork, while throwing fast high volume of punches. He does not rely on lateral movement too much now, except in the last fight curiously, but he did in early carrier. And of course his footspeed in straight lines is one of the best. In contrast Russian style is to plod forward, cut the ring and throw heavy combos.

Unless I'm being ignorant & you can point out some similarities for me? Show me videos of Wlad constantly moving laterally & switch-hitting fluidly with his chin down & shoulder over in a half-crouch? & all that body-punching he does? The leading with the rear hand & then stepping around to fire straight kinda half-shots from the other stance? All Wlad's blinding body/head combination punching?

Wlad vs Ross Purity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ4kcmxSQZ0

[Datsue]

Thanks mate, I stand corrected, I kinda realised you must be talking of his early career & whilst I certainly see that the similarities used to be there (I've only seen the end of that fight, & it was years ago, thank you for posting the entire thing) & I totally concede that he maybe tried to fight in a similar fashion, a decade & a half ago, he hasn't really fought anything at all like that since, what, 2003, has he? 'Cos if I remember rightly when he tried to fight like that, he kept getting knocked out.

& the OP's point was that Steve Bunce claimed that Lomachenko fights like Klitschko. I seriously seriously seriously seriously doubt he meant "Lomachenko fights just like Wlad used to fifteen-plus years ago".

I rather took the comment made by him to mean "Here is an erroneous generalisation based on nationality for you", like when he says things like "teak-tough African" or whatever.

But perhaps I am being ungenerous to "Big Daddy".

PS: Wlad's current style I have loooooooooong blamed on Emanuel Steward watching Tommy Hearns get knocked out 'cos he didn't know how to clinch & thought "Fvck that, that's not happening again!"

PPS: & thinking about it some more I do see the division you were trying to make RE: the prescribed "Soviet" style & the "Ukrainian", really appreciated, thank you for that, it's always good to speak to someone more knowledgable about different styles & (if you like) regional techniques, thank you again.

[lefty]

I think Loma, Usyk and Wladimir Klitschko have similar style considering there size differences.

When. In. The. Name. Of. Fvck. Has. Wladdy. Ever. Utilised. Sharp. Lateral. Movement. Like. Lomachenko?

In fact, apart from having four limbs & wearing a pair of gloves, exactly how does Kltischko fight anything like Lomachenko? Wlad has always been an upright jab first boxer. Even allowing for the fact he's a southpaw, the line of Lomachenko's boxing, the angles he comes in at & utilises, the shots he leads with & the fvck-it actual style of his boxing is a thousand times removed from Klitschko.

Unless I'm being ignorant & you can point out some similarities for me? Show me videos of Wlad constantly moving laterally & switch-hitting fluidly with his chin down & shoulder over in a half-crouch? & all that body-punching he does? The leading with the rear hand & then stepping around to fire straight kinda half-shots from the other stance? All Wlad's blinding body/head combination punching?

I'm sorry if I'm being rude, but if you tattooed the side of Wlad's ribcage he wouldn't look like a giant Lomachenko, either. But he'd still look a lot more like him than he fights like him.

Their styles are definietly not the same although I still wouldnt categorise Wlad as a stereotypical eastern european fighter. I mean technically he has that style but he's a lot more loose and fluid I think than the typical fighter from that part of the world who seem to be technically very good but as stiff as a board in most instances.

[lefty]

...have they actually seen Usyk and Lomachenko? Suggesting they have Soviet styles "like the Klitschko's" is a bewildering assessment. Both are well schooled technically for sure but they are fluid as anything. Usyk as about as un-soviet as you will find!

Big fan of Usyk. Probably prefer him to Lomachenko actually.

[Datsue]

Unless I'm being ignorant & you can point out some similarities for me? Show me videos of Wlad constantly moving laterally & switch-hitting fluidly with his chin down & shoulder over in a half-crouch? & all that body-punching he does? The leading with the rear hand & then stepping around to fire straight kinda half-shots from the other stance? All Wlad's blinding body/head combination punching?

Wlad vs Ross Purity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ4kcmxSQZ0

Again, I'd just like to point out how wrong I was there, thank you for correcting me, apologies for any offence caused by my ignorance.

[Tarkus]

Quality of journalism in boxing is so low that even some suggestion that Beterbiev is not fighting like Ukrainians was enough to make me happy. BTW Beterbiev style, little that I have seen it, is not a Russian style but Caucasian style, which is something else altogether.

[Boxing Prospect]

Lillis also stating that Lomachenko was "found out" and that's what happens when fighters are fast tracked was funny too, I guess Russell Jr wasn't found out

[expe]

Lillis also stating that Lomachenko was "found out" and that's what happens when fighters are fast tracked was funny too, I guess Russell Jr wasn't found out

Russell was found out, but it had nothing to do with the way they managed his career, he just wasn't good enough. Lomachenko is a great example of what happens when a fighter is moved too quickly, put him in with Salido a couple of fights later on and he probably beats him, but in his 2nd fight, he just wasn't experienced enough to get over the line. Russell lost because of ability, Lomachenko lost because of a lack of experience.

[Datsue]

Lillis also stating that Lomachenko was "found out" and that's what happens when fighters are fast tracked was funny too, I guess Russell Jr wasn't found out

Russell was found out, but it had nothing to do with the way they managed his career, he just wasn't good enough. Lomachenko is a great example of what happens when a fighter is moved too quickly, put him in with Salido a couple of fights later on and he probably beats him, but in his 2nd fight, he just wasn't experienced enough to get over the line. Russell lost because of ability, Lomachenko lost because of a lack of experience.

I would contend that no-one in their right mind would think 2 fights is sufficient to fight a guy like Salido (no matter that Loma's had about 8 pro fights, in "reality"), & that his failure to lift the WBO title on that occasion hardly stands up as a shining example of "DON'T MOVE FIGHTERS TOO EARLY!!! LOOK AT LOMACHENKO!!!"

You could bring up Inoue, but he won, FFS, & also whilst I think Hernandez is a better fighter than Salido, Salido's a totally different fvcking kettle of wossname, he's hard as nails, he's been done for PEDs before, he's had more lives than a cat & he fvcks people up for a past-time.

So saying "Yeah look what happened to Loma" is only really valid when you're saying "YES START YOUR CAREER FIGHTING A DOUBLE-PLUS WELL-HARD HAPPY TO CHEAT BAD-ARSE MOTHERFUCKER WHO FIGHTS LIKE HE WANTS TO CHEW YOUR FACE OFF", isn't it?

Because also, Vasyl won a title in his next fight, which is still incredibly early.

[Boxing Prospect]

Lillis also stating that Lomachenko was "found out" and that's what happens when fighters are fast tracked was funny too, I guess Russell Jr wasn't found out

Russell was found out, but it had nothing to do with the way they managed his career, he just wasn't good enough. Lomachenko is a great example of what happens when a fighter is moved too quickly, put him in with Salido a couple of fights later on and he probably beats him, but in his 2nd fight, he just wasn't experienced enough to get over the line. Russell lost because of ability, Lomachenko lost because of a lack of experience.

The inexperience didn't help but neither did the weight difference or the low blows. The thing is however that Lomachenko wasn't "found out" he lost, losses happen, that's not a "finding out", especially not considering the manner of the loss.

[JC]

Quality of journalism in boxing is so low that even some suggestion that Beterbiev is not fighting like Ukrainians was enough to make me happy. BTW Beterbiev style, little that I have seen it, is not a Russian style but Caucasian style, which is something else altogether.

Interesting stuff. Could you tell us more about the Caucasian style?

[Tomasino]

Unless I'm being ignorant & you can point out some similarities for me? Show me videos of Wlad constantly moving laterally & switch-hitting fluidly with his chin down & shoulder over in a half-crouch? & all that body-punching he does? The leading with the rear hand & then stepping around to fire straight kinda half-shots from the other stance? All Wlad's blinding body/head combination punching?

Wlad vs Ross Purity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ4kcmxSQZ0

Again, I'd just like to point out how wrong I was there, thank you for correcting me, apologies for any offence caused by my ignorance.

I was shocked myself how Wladimir fought, having only really remembered him gassing and then Being KOd in that fight.

[Tarkus]

Caucasian style is aggressive pressure fighter style relying on power and strong chin. Often using high guard to come close and unload hooks. Think of Rusians like Magomed Abdusalamov, Rakhim Chakhiev, Armenian Arthur Abraham, Georgian Avtandil Khurtside, Azeri amateur Medzhidov.

[hurlock]

They've been around long enough to analyse & know there onions

[gobbles]

Lillis also stating that Lomachenko was "found out" and that's what happens when fighters are fast tracked was funny too, I guess Russell Jr wasn't found out

Russell was found out, but it had nothing to do with the way they managed his career, he just wasn't good enough. Lomachenko is a great example of what happens when a fighter is moved too quickly, put him in with Salido a couple of fights later on and he probably beats him, but in his 2nd fight, he just wasn't experienced enough to get over the line. Russell lost because of ability, Lomachenko lost because of a lack of experience.

Put him in with Salido and a ref who enforces the rules and Lomachenko beats him

[JC]

Caucasian style is aggressive pressure fighter style relying on power and strong chin. Often using high guard to come close and unload hooks. Think of Rusians like Magomed Abdusalamov, Rakhim Chakhiev, Armenian Arthur Abraham, Georgian Avtandil Khurtside, Azeri amateur Medzhidov.

Thanks man.