Abraham vs Smith Media Scores

[fightscorecollector]

controversial fight last night, 3 judges way off, here is how the media scored the fight along with my full card.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/arthur- ... ing-media/

comments welcome and how did you score the fight??

what do you think should and will happen to the judges??

[Butterbean]

controversial fight last night, 3 judges way off, here is how the media scored the fight along with my full card.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/arthur- ... ing-media/

comments welcome and how did you score the fight??

what do you think should and will happen to the judges??

maybe you should check other than british based media and fighters scorecards. im quite confident things would look different !

[crusader]

controversial fight last night, 3 judges way off, here is how the media scored the fight along with my full card.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/arthur- ... ing-media/

comments welcome and how did you score the fight??

what do you think should and will happen to the judges??

maybe you should check other than british based media and fighters scorecards. im quite confident things would look different !

A majority of those listed still had AA winning and 82 percent didn't have Smith winning, yet the main thing I'm seeing is that Smith was robbed and a rematch should happen.

I think a lot of the outrage stems from people being influenced by the highly pro-Smith, emotionally invested British commentary. I wish commentary-bias could be quantified and accurately compared to judging bias, because I imagine the bias of the British commentators would be right up there with that of the fight's judges.

[ikorolev]

Why are Brits always feeling that they are getting robbed abroad ? Maybe because they fight abroad so rarely and are so used to judges' help at home ?

[Lennox]

I agree the commentary was dreadful. Paul Smith worked hard and came forward all through the fight throwing punches however most 90% probably landed on AA gloves, those punches do not count as scoring punches, you can factor in the overall agressivness in an evenish round but AA landed more scoring punches. I had it 7-1 to AA after 8 rounds (PS won the 2nd) then I gave PS 9, 10 and 11 he looked stronger than AA in all those rounds and edged them, but even in those rounds AA defended most shots with his gloves. At no time did PS trouble AA or dominate him. 116-112 for me (115-113 is scoring 1 round different and 117-111 is not so far off) The 119-109 was awful. I think the system needs changing for judging, in a big arena with 95%+ siding with the home fighter, a promoter that's looked after you it is not easy to be 'fair'. I have never judged but have been asked and also as a superviser. Last fight I was at I sat within two feet of a judge and I scored fairly easily 98-92 to the visiting fighter, the eight rounds were crystal clear, two rounds were close. All three judges gave the fight to the home fighter 98-92, 97-93 twice but I realised in that cauldron of 2000 people (the poor visitor had just his cornerman rooting for him), with the noise levels as they were I would not want to be a Judge.

You almost need to anaylse a scorecard deeper than just the score, see how many common rounds of agreement there were. Diverse opinion from those is the real problem. You can have three 115-113 cards but still a mess under cross examination.

[giacomino]

Really interesting how many threads/posts we've had on what is essentially a third-rate alphabet fight between maybe the third or fourth best super middleweight alphabet belt holder and somebody he was supposed to easily handle. Whether the scoring was bad or not, it says a lot about Abraham's claim of being a "world champion," IMO.

[Ian1973]

Why are Brits always feeling that they are getting robbed abroad ? Maybe because they fight abroad so rarely and are so used to judges' help at home ?

Who is saying Smith was robbed? I haven't seen one person claiming outrage that Abraham was given the verdict. It is the ridiculous scorecards of the judges that has got everyone worked up and rightly so. Look at the scorecards inside the link provided. The only people to have scored that fight wide were the three judges at ringside. Why?

[ikorolev]

Why are Brits always feeling that they are getting robbed abroad ? Maybe because they fight abroad so rarely and are so used to judges' help at home ?

Who is saying Smith was robbed? I haven't seen one person claiming outrage that Abraham was given the verdict. It is the ridiculous scorecards of the judges that has got everyone worked up and rightly so. Look at the scorecards inside the link provided. The only people to have scored that fight wide were the three judges at ringside. Why?

There are a lot of people yelling that Smith was robbed starting with British TV commentators and ending with Smith and Hearn. I don't remember such outrage when a B level fighter gets unfair scores in England.

[crusader]

Why are Brits always feeling that they are getting robbed abroad ? Maybe because they fight abroad so rarely and are so used to judges' help at home ?

Who is saying Smith was robbed? I haven't seen one person claiming outrage that Abraham was given the verdict. It is the ridiculous scorecards of the judges that has got everyone worked up and rightly so. Look at the scorecards inside the link provided. The only people to have scored that fight wide were the three judges at ringside. Why?

I've seen robbery claims all over Twitter, though admittedly those making them seem like casuals who would more easily be persuaded by commentary and emotion than hardcore fans. I've seen numerous calls for a rematch among the latter though, so I think the controversy over how wide the cards were has somewhat shifted into a general outrage for some educated fans.

Excessively wide cards that still lead to a fair result aren't uncommon (recently an 11-1 card for Mickey Bey was turned in for his bout against Miguel Vasquez, even though the latter arguably deserved to win), yet I can't recall such an intense outcry. I don't think two of the cards were horribly off either, as I can see how someone could reasonably score it 116-112 AA.

[Bobbyptsd]

controversial fight last night, 3 judges way off, here is how the media scored the fight along with my full card.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/arthur- ... ing-media/

comments welcome and how did you score the fight??

what do you think should and will happen to the judges??

There was? I must have missed it. I was busy watching AA win a completely legitimate decision against a game but out skilled and (at times) bullied Smith.

[polecateddy]

Yes doesn't seem very controversial really. AA has obviously slipped a fair bit as we all knew. Smith is lucky he can walk away with some positives. An early round blow-out and it would have been curtains.

[sucracristo]

unless you can prove the judges took payoffs there is absolutely nothing that
can be done to them. they will be the first pick to be used again in germany
the next time a german defends a title. if there is a rematch, it sure as hell
won't be in liverpool or manchester, that's for sure. it would be back in germany
and i would say smith did about as good as he could have done in the first fight.
i'm laughing at how many times i've been called a brit on here, recently,
or how easily i must be influenced by jim watt.

[Taansend]

I was at work so I missed the fight but if Jim Watt scored the fight for Smith then I can comfortably say that Abraham definitely deserved the decision

What has happened here is what I call "Beating The Spread". Smith was expected to lose by a KO or large margin but he did better than expected so (some) people are crying foul.

Same thing happened with Lewis v Klitschko. I remember the build up to that fight & the Byrd bout still lingered over Vitali. I told people that he was a hard, tough man who would push Lewis but the press said otherwise. I was there that night and because Vitali did better than expected people whine.

There's many other examples of this too. Couple it with a biased commentator & you have a perfect recipe for OUTRAGE!

[fightscorecollector]

controversial fight last night, 3 judges way off, here is how the media scored the fight along with my full card.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/arthur- ... ing-media/

comments welcome and how did you score the fight??

what do you think should and will happen to the judges??

There was? I must have missed it. I was busy watching AA win a completely legitimate decision against a game but out skilled and (at times) bullied Smith.

read the article where i say that nobody is really bothered about abraham winnig the fight, its the fact that the judges had it far too wide.

that is my main point of the article, when 51 people have an ave score of 115-114 , it kinda pisses over a 9-3 and 11-1 scoreline

[crusader]

I think forced rematches should be saved for cases in which the result of the initial fight was clearly unfair. In this case a majority of those polled had AA winning while only 18 percent had Smith ahead, and I imagine that most who scored it a draw could see a case for an Abraham victory. So, based on the collected figures and what I've gleaned from various forums (e.g. the poll in the British section in which the majority of respondents had AA winning) controversy over Abraham winning isn't widespread. Smith was a voluntary defense, he hadn't done much to earn a title bout, and he didn't win the fight in the eyes of a sizable majority, so I don't think an immediate rematch should be ordered.

Excessively wide scoring that leads to fair results occurs all the time, and this is the biggest outcry I've seen over it. Should a rematch be ordered if a fighter who clearly deserved to win a bout 8-4 instead wins 12-0, generating public outcry? You could just as easily say there was dubious and highly controversial scoring.

[karvkate]

I scored it exactly 117-111 for Abraham! I think AAs defense was very solid. In my opinion Abraham edged Smith in effective aggressiveness, defense and clean punching - which all are used in scoring a fight. I can see someone giving an extra round or two to PS but that's it! It was a competitive fight but imo Abraham clearly won.

Note: I didn't watch the fight with British commentators.

I respect anyone's opinion as long as they can give a reasonable explanation.

[Butterbean]

controversial fight last night, 3 judges way off, here is how the media scored the fight along with my full card.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/arthur- ... ing-media/

comments welcome and how did you score the fight??

what do you think should and will happen to the judges??

There was? I must have missed it. I was busy watching AA win a completely legitimate decision against a game but out skilled and (at times) bullied Smith.

read the article where i say that nobody is really bothered about abraham winnig the fight, its the fact that the judges had it far too wide.

that is my main point of the article, when 51 people have an ave score of 115-114 , it kinda pisses over a 9-3 and 11-1 scoreline

come on dude. 51 peoples scores. where were they from ? paul smith did really good in that fight, but no way did he win more than a round or two. Watch it again. How many times did he actually land on aa ? you dont win a titlefight punching yourself silly on the champions guard.

[GPTM1403]

I scored it exactly 117-111 for Abraham! I think AAs defense was very solid. In my opinion Abraham edged Smith in effective aggressiveness, defense and clean punching - which all are used in scoring a fight. I can see someone giving an extra round or two to PS but that's it! It was a competitive fight but imo Abraham clearly won.

Note: I didn't watch the fight with British commentators.

I respect anyone's opinion as long as they can give a reasonable explanation.

The thing I'm not getting on here is all the talk about Smith's shots hitting gloves and arms yet everyone claiming Abraham hit more on target. Simply didn't see it myself, including the between rounds replays that were intended to show Abraham's best bits. They clearly showed a lot of hitting gloves on his part. No matter how you choose to judge it the scores don't add.
Aggression? Abraham wasn't even the guy coming forward during all of his 45 second effort in most rounds. Smith held centre ring and came forward more each round. Plus neither was really hurt bar one punch late on that very, very briefly stunned Smith and one hook late on that made Abraham take a single step back and take stock. Hardly a clear indicator either way.
Punches thrown? Smith threw far more.
Punches landed? Again, as above, for all the punches Smith landed on gloves so did Abraham - his % for landed was no better than Smith's.
Skills displayed? Well Smith was the one varying the punches, throwing combinations.
Impact? Well take a look at Abraham's sides by the end of the fight and say Smith wasn't landing hard stuff.

Basically the only attention grabbing thing Abraham did was throwing his arms out to the side 3-4 times late on in a round and that was it. Abraham's last round attempt showed he and his corner didn't believe he was winning and Smith stood his ground in that last round. For all people say Smith didn't dominate any rounds, neither did Abraham.

For the record I'm Irish and backed every single vote/opinion I saw pre fight that said Smith simply isn't in this class. I have seen nothing previously to suggest he could do this level of performance. I had it 116-114 for Smith. I had it 2-2-1 after 5 rounds, Smith winning the next 3 and at least 1 of the last 4. Even if you could argue some of those rounds I could argue some of the rounds I scored for Abraham and even. That's the point, you could come out with 116-114 either way or 115-115 as easily on the fight I watched. I've seen close fights that end up with lop sided scores and that wasn't one of them. That was a genuinely close fight that could have gone a round or two either way or been a draw. Smith's camp are saying they thought it was a draw (not that they were robbed). I appreciate you came up with 117-111, but I simply couldn't get that when Smith threw more, landed more, worked more, controlled the ring more in far too many rounds for it to be such a wide gap. And that is the issue, the judges scores simply didn't reflect the fight that most of us watched.

As for people saying the media are calling it a robbery. What I saw was Jim Watt had Smith winning by 1 or 2 rounds. And the guys in the Sky studio each had it as a draw. As I say that is where the controversy is coming from, too many saw it a close fight for those scores to sit well. As I say, if you scored it for Abraham by 1 or 2 points I wouldn't agree but could understand, if you scored a draw I could understand just not those wide scores.

[sucracristo]

you could come out with 116-114 either way or 115-115

i think the math is actually 114-114 for the draw, 115-113 for one round moving to a side,
and 116-112 for two rounds moving to one guy's column, unless there are kd's or points taken,
but other than that this synopsis was exactly the way the fight went.

[Bobbyptsd]

controversial fight last night, 3 judges way off, here is how the media scored the fight along with my full card.

http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/arthur- ... ing-media/

comments welcome and how did you score the fight??

what do you think should and will happen to the judges??

There was? I must have missed it. I was busy watching AA win a completely legitimate decision against a game but out skilled and (at times) bullied Smith.

read the article where i say that nobody is really bothered about abraham winnig the fight, its the fact that the judges had it far too wide.

that is my main point of the article, when 51 people have an ave score of 115-114 , it kinda pisses over a 9-3 and 11-1 scoreline

I'm not here to read your article, I'm here to discuss on the forum. If you have something to say, say it in a post if you want me to respond. I took issue with your statement about the fight being "controversial". It wasn't.

A fight with the right guy winning and scores a bit wider than most (seem) to have had it does not a controversy make, in my book.

9-3 would have been a completely fine score by my way of looking at it, trying to be as impartial as possible. judges seeing one or a couple rounds where I didn't, in a fight where I feel many were influenced by the British media anyway, doesn't make me jump out of my chair screaming that someone has to pay, that's for damn sure.

[ikorolev]

If Smith wanted a belt, he needed to box better instead of whining after the fight. Soliman took a belt from Sturm, because he fought better, and it was obvious.

[Roars Like Me]

It seems that some fans outside the UK believe that hometown scoring is prevelent here. I don't subscribe to the fact that it's worse here than anywhere. Some US fans, diddy in particular seem to think that it's so bias over here without even a thought that the US has had more than it's fair share of controversies over the years. Blind love I suppose you can call that ;;-)
Now in Germany there has been many hometown victories and I also remember Italy used to be like that too.
In this particular fight the scores aren't close enough but I can see that Abraham won by a round or maybe even 2.