Dacian93 wrote:This is an odd topic in 2014 with UFC business at an all time low. Boxing will beat MMA in PPV numbers for the first time since 2005 and the UFC's world wide expansion is sort of smoke and mirrors. Boxing also has the better prospects. Anyway, nice night for both sports.
-goes back to lurking-
You tracking this that hard? Whats the numbers so far this year? Always seems like official PPV numbers are hard to come by but I'd assume the UFC always wins the PPV battle cuz they got more cards. Boxing has Floyd & Manny & sometimes Miguel or Saul or a random PPV, UFC does a card a month. I guess it looks like the turtle vs the rabbit as the months for any given year start to add up.
They are reaching crisis level low numbers, under 100k, and it is really their fault for being greedy. It is also a transition year with their big stars gone and countless fight cancellations from injury and drug suspensions.
It can't be denied that both their PPV & TV numbers are down in a major way. They have their core of fans but the casual boom has waned and this is with the new Fox deal.
@bnovelist
MMA magazines and clothes..are you serious? 90% of all MMA companies have gone bust.
Dacian93 wrote:This is an odd topic in 2014 with UFC business at an all time low. Boxing will beat MMA in PPV numbers for the first time since 2005 and the UFC's world wide expansion is sort of smoke and mirrors. Boxing also has the better prospects. Anyway, nice night for both sports.
-goes back to lurking-
You tracking this that hard? Whats the numbers so far this year? Always seems like official PPV numbers are hard to come by but I'd assume the UFC always wins the PPV battle cuz they got more cards. Boxing has Floyd & Manny & sometimes Miguel or Saul or a random PPV, UFC does a card a month. I guess it looks like the turtle vs the rabbit as the months for any given year start to add up.
They are reaching crisis level low numbers, under 100k, and it is really their fault for being greedy. It is also a transition year with their big stars gone and countless fight cancellations from injury and drug suspensions.
It can't be denied that both their PPV & TV numbers are down in a major way. They have their core of fans but the casual boom has waned and this is with the new Fox deal.
for the link. Used to look @ that site all the time, but havent visited in awhile.
Unless I'm reading something wrong it looks like they are doing great PPV-wise, no? Anderson vs Chris II did a million buys (for the first time in 4 years since Brock Lesner was killing PPV). Floyd & Manny are having trouble doing those numbers these days. Chris vs Lyoto did half a mill. Jon Jones isn't selling like he should but he's doing solid 300k numbers. And I think thats cuz Dana is being a knucklehead & putting his shows a couple weeks before the biggest combat sports PPV's of the year when Floyd fights so people are choosing the bigger combat sports name to throw some money @ as one would expect. If Dana put Jon's on a non-Floyd schedule he's doing half a mill easy imho & maybe his bigger fights get into the 700k+ area.
In the uk the ufc popularity peaked in 2009 it's decreased since then plus our domestic mma scene is pretty weak very rarely is it shown on any channel
UFC's popularity has been dropping for a while and has stayed there. Why else did Dana go from saying women would never fight in the UFC to the position now of pushing Rousey and the talentless female division? Pretty soon that little bump in interest over Rousey will dip as well. The female TUF just pulled in the lowest ratings ever for that show. They've been putting out trash cards and slapping the UFC brand on it for too long and it's hurt them. UFC is more concerned about image than putting out a good product and with that mindset they'll continue the course they're on.
ReggieDiggs wrote:
Unless I'm reading something wrong it looks like they are doing great PPV-wise, no? Anderson vs Chris II did a million buys (for the first time in 4 years since Brock Lesner was killing PPV). Floyd & Manny are having trouble doing those numbers these days. Chris vs Lyoto did half a mill. Jon Jones isn't selling like he should but he's doing solid 300k numbers. And I think thats cuz Dana is being a knucklehead & putting his shows a couple weeks before the biggest combat sports PPV's of the year when Floyd fights so people are choosing the bigger combat sports name to throw some money @ as one would expect. If Dana put Jon's on a non-Floyd schedule he's doing half a mill easy imho & maybe his bigger fights get into the 700k+ area.
Well Anderson is a star and that was one of most hyped up rematches ever. If you just look at 2014 it is bad based on their once lofty standards. It's not like they will die or anything but they are struggling. Even Jones' numbers have gone down to 300k, the Cormier fight should do well though. The July show would have done 800k in the old days.
My point in all this was that you can't be making the argument that MMA 'is the fastest growing sport and will overtake boxing' etc. It was always a stupid argument in the first place and this is not 2009 when MMA peaked. With most of the shows being on FS1 they get Showtime boxing level ratings and their big Fox numbers have sagged badly and done nothing to help PPV.
Blodhemn wrote:UFC's popularity has been dropping for a while and has stayed there. Why else did Dana go from saying women would never fight in the UFC to the position now of pushing Rousey and the talentless female division? Pretty soon that little bump in interest over Rousey will dip as well. The female TUF just pulled in the lowest ratings ever for that show. They've been putting out trash cards and slapping the UFC brand on it for too long and it's hurt them. UFC is more concerned about image than putting out a good product and with that mindset they'll continue the course they're on.
They are in dangerous territory of pissing off the hardcore base. It has already begun as the PPV bottom keeps dropping. All these lameduck shows are killing them and the UFC is too stubborn to change. Their current attitude of 'if you don't like it don't watch fu1k head' is backfiring. I also agree that WMMA in the long term doesn't mesh with their fanbase (and why should it since most of it is garbage), they also hate the smaller mens divisions.
If you thought the 'sport is dying' threads on boxing forums were annoying just visit some of the bigger MMA forums where the fans are complaining non-stop.
Dacian93 wrote:Well Anderson is a star and that was one of most hyped up rematches ever. If you just look at 2014 it is bad based on their once lofty standards. It's not like they will die or anything but they are struggling. Even Jones' numbers have gone down to 300k, the Cormier fight should do well though. The July show would have done 800k in the old days.
My point in all this was that you can't be making the argument that MMA 'is the fastest growing sport and will overtake boxing' etc. It was always a stupid argument in the first place and this is not 2009 when MMA peaked. With most of the shows being on FS1 they get Showtime boxing level ratings and their big Fox numbers have sagged badly and done nothing to help PPV.
Eh I think its a bit early to suggest MMA has peaked. Even if it has peaked in the US I think the UFC going into more & more countries will pay dividends @ some undetermined future date for MMA & the UFC. If MMA was a stock its still on the buy list imho in particular since things are likely a lil down since GSP has left & Anderson is probably all but out of the sport & them being the two biggest sellers the UFC had. Any sport would be trending downward to one degree or another if their two biggest guys were't around for a year. The obvious example is boxing when Floyd & Manny are gone. Check out the boxing PPV numbers come 2016 or 2017.
I definitely agree the Boxing vs MMA thing is silly. At the end of the day they are different sports with a larger segment of fans who dig both sports & will continue to dig both sports.
UFC's venture into other countries hasn't taken off like they'd hope. The UK and Japan are still their biggest markets outside of US and Brazil, and what do they both have in common? Waning MMA interest, while traditional boxing interest going strong.
Dacian93 wrote:They are in dangerous territory of pissing off the hardcore base. It has already begun as the PPV bottom keeps dropping. All these lameduck shows are killing them and the UFC is too stubborn to change. Their current attitude of 'if you don't like it don't watch fu1k head' is backfiring. I also agree that WMMA in the long term doesn't mesh with their fanbase (and why should it since most of it is garbage), they also hate the smaller mens divisions.
If you thought the 'sport is dying' threads on boxing forums were annoying just visit some of the bigger MMA forums where the fans are complaining non-stop.
Lol... yeah, they've already lost some of the hardcore fanbase and casuals aren't tuning into it as much either. The sport has more exposure than ever yet it's mellowed out with viewers. I think it's overexposed and not as "shocking" anymore as well, that's why there's less casual viewers. Hardcore viewers have many reasons why they've dropped out. I barely tune in these days, and I've watched MMA from the beginning.
No idea how true this is but I read on sherdog forum that the ufc borrowed 500 million from one of the big casinos in 2009 and has to pay the loan back in 2015 and zuffa have been trying to sell the debt for the last couple of years???
The UFC, like any other promotion, has its ups and downs.
I had a discussion with a friend of mine not long ago on the state of mma, and I told him that right now its dismal for the UFC. There are many smaller, successful promotions popping up and cranking out shows, and I wouldnt be surprised if most mma fans are like myself and tune into these shows on AXSTV and SPIKE more often than the UFC banner right now.
Why? Simply put all the "legends" are inactive, done for, or retired. All the really exciting names are going out the door. And quite frankly, the wildly popular women's division--- which I would argue is what's holding the UFC's head above water in a sense--- is starting to grow stale. Ronda Rousey is too good, and the only women out there who are fit to challenge her, either aint in the UFC or they have yet to defeat a rated contender. Holly Holm, despite her pedigree in boxing and kickboxing, still hasnt beaten anyone of consequence in mma--- so, if anyone is to really buy into the idea of matching them two, she needs to beat at least 2-3 known and rated mma fighters.
As far as the men are concerned, outside of Jon Jones---- the only "superstar" in the UFC is Georges St. Pierre, and even he is inactive and has said on many occasions that he is only planning on fighting 3 or so times and then calling it quits. Let's face facts, right now the UFC's heavyweight division is about as boring, non-competitive and lackluster as boxing's heavyweight division--- no one on the roster, stands a chance in hell in beating Cain and everyone knows it.
Now... as for boxing.... when Floyd retires.... in my eyes at least... the doors to more competitive fights, more action packed fights, will come into being... why? Cus with a Mayweather out there, everyone else seems subpar, when in fact they are truly world class fighters. Same with Vladimir Klitschko... when he's gone, there will be more competitive, action packed fights... because with him in the mix, still, and as champion he makes everyone else look a universe apart from him in talent. That being said--- what we will see is almost a resurgance in boxing, with promoters climbing over eachother to make fights, fighters finally thumping and beating their chests that their "time" has finally arrived--- and we're going to see quite a lot of interesting matches.
The UFC, upon the retirement of Mayweather or Pacquiao, will up the ante and dig deep in their pockets to try and bring in new talent--- renew cable tv contracts and make their product more accessible than ever--- and this will revive their stock and interest again. But its a band aid answer--- until the UFC can get passed their own shortcomings in their own heavyweight division, and find newer/younger exciting fighters in the lower weights to replace St. Pierre and others--- their climb back to "dominating" boxing in the ratings, etc. will be a long one.
That being said--- on the social level--- yes, mma is destroying boxing. There are at least 5 mma gyms within a 30 mile radius of my home--- and the nearest boxing gym is 50 miles away. Blame it on commissions for making it tougher (I'm guessing) to own and operate gyms--- blame it on USA Boxing running a monopoly on the amateurs, just as badly as Don King and Bob Arum at their absolute worst did in the pros--- and blame it on perception, that boxing is "weaker" or "less" than mixed martial arts. Cus in the minds of the general public boxing is just a small portion of what mma fighters do--- so nobody really believes that the boxing champions, really are the "toughest" or "baddest" men on the planet anymore. Besides, people can relate more to something that looks like a streetfight, than "the sweet science".
I enjoy the UFC far more than boxing these days. Far more. But I don't donate a dime to either sport. I stream everything free or watch on cable so they probably don't care much what I think anyway.
For sheer entertainment - UFC all day, everyday. Not even close. We get action. We get the best fights. You rarely get either in boxing.
Conor McGregor is on his way to being a HUGE HUGE star in the world of MMA. The guy is fast rising, has charisma, cockiness, and a very exciting style. He has all of Ireland behind him apparently.
UFC has had a disastrous year, with fight after fight canceled due to injuries and drug-related stuff. Usually I buy like 6-8 PPVs per year from them, this year it's only been 2. Hopefully this will cause them to stack their cards a little more as a defensive measure. The last few PPV cards this year seem very good assuming they don't fall apart.
the UFC is the biggest MMA organisation no question, they have multiple superstar fighters and I could name a handful off the top of my head but that's beside the point.
Boxing will always tip the scales in terms of pay-per view as well as being more culturally accepted by the public in general. then you can look at the amateur world of both sports, amateur MMA is growing and now has a circuit in most countries but boxing already has one established and if you look into it most of those amateur MMA fighters will probably cross-train and use the boxing clubs if they didn't start there in the first place.
and this is the biggest point Boxing is an Olympic sport, a medallist there already has world wide fame, their first fight and I can guarantee this, everyone will watch because they want to see how they do professionally and will follow them through their career.
the UFC is great and MMA as a whole is growing and when you look at other big companies like One FC, Bellator, WSOF yeah these are great but this is how boxing can always challenge the popularity of those four organisations: WBC, WBA, WBO, IBF.
those four titles make you the undisputed champion, in MMA if your the best of one organisation you are the best there and you stay there 9 times out of 10, there is always a debate over who is the best
northern wrote:
those four titles make you the undisputed champion, in MMA if your the best of one organisation you are the best there and you stay there 9 times out of 10, there is always a debate over who is the best
Say what? Almost the exact opposite is true. The UFC champ in any given weight class is the undisputed #1 MMA fighter in that class. In boxing there are so many titles that they've lost all meaning.
HomicideHenry wrote:The UFC, like any other promotion, has its ups and downs.
I had a discussion with a friend of mine not long ago on the state of mma, and I told him that right now its dismal for the UFC. There are many smaller, successful promotions popping up and cranking out shows, and I wouldnt be surprised if most mma fans are like myself and tune into these shows on AXSTV and SPIKE more often than the UFC banner right now. .
Outside of Bellator there is no real alternative to the UFC and they are also struggling, as is the WSOF. AXSTV is such a small station that their ratings don't ever get reported.
HomicideHenry wrote:That being said--- on the social level--- yes, mma is destroying boxing. There are at least 5 mma gyms within a 30 mile radius of my home--- and the nearest boxing gym is 50 miles away. Blame it on commissions for making it tougher (I'm guessing) to own and operate gyms--- blame it on USA Boxing running a monopoly on the amateurs, just as badly as Don King and Bob Arum at their absolute worst did in the pros--- and blame it on perception, that boxing is "weaker" or "less" than mixed martial arts. Cus in the minds of the general public boxing is just a small portion of what mma fighters do--- so nobody really believes that the boxing champions, really are the "toughest" or "baddest" men on the planet anymore. Besides, people can relate more to something that looks like a streetfight, than "the sweet science".
MMA gyms are yesterdays karate dojo's. Sure they appeal to wider demographic but they don't really produce any fighters. The vast majority of MMA talent still comes out of wrestling.
for the link. Used to look @ that site all the time, but havent visited in awhile.
