Full fight records not available Why?

[jimglen]

could you please provide a brief explanation as to Why(?), Box Rec doesn't have the FULL Records for most of the fighters on the data base and especially past fighters records?

it appears hard for some people to comprehend why the data base is incomplete.

thanks in advance.

[Boxing Prospect]

could you please provide a brief explanation as to Why(?), Box Rec doesn't have the FULL Records for most of the fighters on the data base and especially past fighters records?

it appears hard for some people to comprehend why the data base is incomplete.

thanks in advance.

Some bouts went un-reported or aren't sanctioned properly, others have fighters who change their names (a lot), there are lots of reasons sadly for fights to be missing, even current ones. A lot of records from places like Thailand and Indonesia are disputed with local folk reporting something different to boxrec.

[jimglen]

yes, thank you.

and of course the obvious reason being that the information has not yet been found or presented to the data base from it's own researchers or other outside sources whom are either gathering such information or have it among their own collected resource material, such as family members, serious fans or others that might for be looking into fighters careers for one reason or another.

BoxRec's own disclaimer tells us quite clearly that for all that they do have, they only have "Far Less" than 50% of possible Recorded Fights and some older stuff may indeed be lost to time.

It's pretty clear to most people anyway, but some people "think" that what you have is all there is. Wrong of course, thank you.

here is Boxrec's OWN explanation of Fight Records and how they hope to resource them...

* Inaugurated in May 2000 with a database of 20,000 bouts, BoxRec.com (Boxing Records Archive) has grown by leaps and bounds, with a million bouts having been entered by 2005, and currently over 1.75 million bouts to date. Its world-wide volunteer Editors scour magazines, record books, scrapbooks, and newspaper microfilm, attend boxing shows, and maintain contact with various boxing commissions throughout the world, to continually add old and new bouts.

Presently they insert an average of 2,000 "new" entries each week into the BoxRec database.

(The Editors believe that well under 50% of those bouts that can be documented have been entered so far into the BoxRec database; not to mention those undocumented bouts of the past that are forever lost.)


Unlike boxing record sources of the past, BoxRec.com actually cites the exact venues, referees, judges, official weights, knockout times, promoters, and descriptions of many bouts. However, the BoxRec database does not include amateur, bare-knuckle (pre-Marquess of Queensberry Rules) or exhibition bouts, although such matches might be mentioned in the boxer's BoxRec Wikipedia biography.

[wouter]

Boxrec is a work in progress, with the records being updated each day. While many records are far from complete at this stage, we hope we'll get there eventually.

[blfinish]

I have question.... I am doing a book on my father Stan Levey the BeBop drummer for Dizzy Gillespie Charlie Parker Ella etc etc He played on thousands of recordings, movies, TV shows etc. You can go to his website http://www.stanlevey.com he's got a few pictures there in his boxing gear from much later on.. He did his roadwork everyday, NO Matter What... He was from North Philly and his father David Dave Levey Levy was a fight promoter and manager... He managed Georgie Miller and some pretty good fighters he was also tied in with the guys that ran the inside game too if you know what I mean...Guys like Bob Mongomery and Ike Williams trained at the same Gym that Dave worked out of, as did dad... also he had something to do with Pedro Tomez etc etc Now I won't mention some of the fighters dad said he fought not unless someone wants me too.... but I have looked them up and it does not list him but who knows, but again he just didn't make stuff up

From the help of Mr. John DiSanto, Mr. Henry Hascup I was able to find Dave in Nat Fleishers Ring Record Book... Dave is listed under Manager/Promoter up till 1957.Dave died of a shot to the temple and we really don't know if it was self inflicted or not....I am researching that now... They list it as suicide but I cannot get a hold of the coroners report.. The Coroner dosen't have it neither does the funeral home he was buried in...????.. So correct me if I'm wrong but Dave Levey being mentioned in a book like Nats is not really a small thing is it??? Now he was not a Major guy but he was in....I cannot find any fighters listed or linked to him... I have found most of the newspaper clippings with Georgie Miller being on the same program with Ike and Bob and some ticket stubs... I have only found one clip in a NY paper that has a Sam Levey fighting in Buffalo 18 years old Heavyweight so everything is perfectly in line, the spelling etc etc...and he was with Dizzy and Bird and had just moved to NY in 44 so I'm sure that is him because he said changed his name alot...for a lot of reasons which will come out in the book... if you check him out on his site he kept good company and he was known around the world as not a guy to mess with and that meant everybody..He is listed as being in The first Original Bebop Band Diz, Bird, and a host of other legends and he is listed in books by Miles Davis, Dizzy of course, Sinatra anyway I think you get the drift on this...

Stan was never a guy that boasted about the things he did in life and believe me he climbed to the top of the mountain in music..

So can you guys think of something special I am missing here.????.. I have read the disclaimer and talked to Henry and John and a few others but can't find the links to most of what I would like to have and I may never have...?????

I think Henry might have posted this here before. if so I apollogize but we are getting to the finish line so I thought I would reach out one more time... But I don't give up easy... did a little club boxing at Kenny LaSalles gym in Venice and also a 4th degree BB with several titles for fighting, been on the canvas a few times too, lol so I'm not throwing in the towel yet

Also one last question for now Stan used to use a brand named Spartan ?

Thanks again GREAT Site

Sincerely
Bob Levey

[Like a Boss]

could you please provide a brief explanation as to Why(?), Box Rec doesn't have the FULL Records for most of the fighters on the data base and especially past fighters records?

it appears hard for some people to comprehend why the data base is incomplete.

thanks in advance.

Some bouts went un-reported or aren't sanctioned properly, others have fighters who change their names (a lot), there are lots of reasons sadly for fights to be missing, even current ones. A lot of records from places like Thailand and Indonesia are disputed with local folk reporting something different to boxrec.

Spot on. Scotland Yard couldn't piece together some of the stuff that went on in the early days of boxing.

[blfinish]

"Got it Boss Man "Spot on. Scotland Yard couldn't piece together some of the stuff that went on in the early days of boxing."

LOL But???? "I think I'm becoming like Scottland Yard a wee Bit me lad"
Thanks Like a Boss I was just wondering if there any options to explore...that might help me uncover something....I am now going thru the Philly and NY papers to see if something shows up. Dad did mention that at one point that David his father had something to do with Pedro Tomez.. I have found articles in a few papers with Pedro being in Philly fighting in the early 40's .. My Old man used to always say Dave bought and sold fighters at the drop of a hat also...

Another question is How the heck do you find the links between boxers and Managers/Promoters if they weren't the top guys... but good ones.. like Pedro, Georgie Miller etc. Promoters I have seen in Newspapers and old tickets etc but Mgrs Just here and there...I'm probably lucky to find what I have found

Oh Yeah 2 more ?'s is anyone familiar with "United Gear or Just United"??? My memory fails me sometimes

Also I am 100% positive that this Sam Levey 18 yr old Heavyweight who fought Ben Tyler in buffalo is Stan Levey... I found a newspaper for that fight and I think it was either Ike W or Bob M which was the same gym guys he worked out with in Philly and of course they were World Champions, he was not.... How hard is it or is it impossible to get this changed to the correct name or just forget about it....???


Thanks again...

BL

"Thanks Dan Cuoco "Big Time"

[wsbuf]

Buffalo Courier reports him as Sam Levey of NY and a Jack Moore protege.

[blfinish]

Interesting wsbuf.. So could you give me the date on that is it the 44 bout... He was living there as I mentioned so could "out of New York"? mean he had to be born there, or just fighting out of???

I have never heard Jack Moore's name mentioned by Stan... the stats do say Sam was about 191 lbs which seemed heavier than he probably was but the age is DEAD on and so is Levey and again him being there in NY also... I know his last fight he got his jaw broke by an older fighter whom he never could remember the name of, I wonder why? Sorry Dad I know you would laugh at that one. .But he had the music going on and was making a lot more money and he was doing the hitting (drums cymbals) lol so he went that way which for him was a bit easier and it ended working out pretty good for him...


Again Thanks for the Info

Best
BL

[wsbuf]

The dates in paper was the day before and day after the fight (10.18.44), Both said Sam

[blfinish]

As the disclaimer says so much info was incorrectly recorded or not recorded. Tens of thousands and more are just not there as Henry told me, so I'll plod on. Thanks for responding

[wsbuf]

was that his only fight?

[blfinish]

No not at all

[blfinish]

I don't want to mention the names he said he went the distance with until I have some factual knowledge to back it up.... But I did find Dave Levey in the Fleischer Book but not linked to anyone. yet... But now I have found a lot on Dave Levy that links him to many of the events and people dad mentioned over the years.

When you researchers get to this point and you know something happened but you just can't find it IS THERE A PLACE THAT YOU TURN TO. AND SAY OK THIS IS MY LAST SHOT...???

Thanks again wsbuf sorry for beating this to death and If there is anyone out there that you can recomend because I have so many questions that stll need answering"''.please let lke know .... I don't want to waste peoples time...

I'm really glad I didn't lay down on this one

[wouter]

If you mention the names he claims to have gone the distance with, we'll be able to tell if there's a chance of this being true.

[blfinish]

Ok let me just put down what is in the notes before the book.... also please go to youtube and watchhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPsFB49xUeY it has some very good footage of him playing and talking about the subject Jazz and his career and other Luminaries speaking about him...
First off Dave Levey is a used car salesman and a fight mgr/promoter he takes Stan to his 1st fight at the Olympic fight club on So. Broad St. Dave takes him backstage and introduces him to 2 of his fighters maybe 1938-40 something like that. Dave owns Georgie Miller Middleweight at the time and Pedro Tomez now I have NO idea if he owns 100% or just a piece... but Dad meets these guys their breakin a sweat getting their hands wrapped etc.. Dad digs it and hes a big kid...Georgie takes a likin to him and becomes a bit of a older brother father figure and teaches him the ropes Stan is 14-15 yrs old... Ike Williams works out there and so does Bob Montgomery Dave does not own them. The Gym is Spring Garden Gym Sixth & Gerard No Philly...

[wouter]

He may have been an amateur fighter or a prelim fighter appearing on small cards, but there's absolutely no chance of him having fought the bouts you mention.

[blfinish]

He may have been an amateur fighter or a prelim fighter appearing on small cards, but there's absolutely no chance of him having fought the bouts you mention.

I'm not certain yet on this with Stan at this moment.. I do agree nothing is written anywhere about the fighters he mentioned. They could have been sparring matches too... I have No idea...He was a prelim fighter for sure and nothing more than that...

Next subject is Dave Levey I have just found many articles on Dave Levy starting about 4 wks ago. Nov 2, 2014 now.
Thanks appreciate your knowledge and straight forward answers


Thanks
BL

I am finding a lot of Dave Levy and it just took one article clipping which took almost a year to find I'm sure it is the Philadelphia Evening Bulletin Glad I'm so glad I did not give up...I know the great fighters think this way as do Tae Kwon Do fighters I mean the real ones... you get knocked down 70 times you get up a 100 times .....

[blfinish]

I had a gal in Buffalo from one of the Libraries that has most of the Micro-film for The Buffalo Courier.-Express having Sam Levey winning the fight with a KO in the second not Ben Tyler... . I can't find it in Fleischers Book...I've done research on Jazz and my trade, old records, read tons of books on both subjects so I am familiar with the process and sometimes things do differ in the way people record and remember the Past but I do want to make this as ACCURATE AS I CAN.... thanks for all the input bl

[wouter]

I had a gal in Buffalo from one of the Library and they have most of the Micro-film for The Buffalo Courier and this is where I go whats fact or fiction...The Buffalo Courier has Sam Levey winning the fight in the second not Ben Tyler... Now you would think that the local paper that covered this would get it right but in other papers they have it exactly opposite does this site... I can't find it in Fleischers Book...I've done research on Jazz and my trade old records read tons of books on both subjects so I am familiar with the process and sometimes things do differ in the way people record and remember the Past but I do want to make this as ACCURATE AS I CAN...I don't think I'll ask anymore on this subject unless the person that is doing the research on The Philadelphia Enquirer comes up with something from their Micro Film research... thanks for all the input bl

You are right, the day-after Buffalo Courier-Express reports a win for Levey. I have corrected the result. Since Levey was listed as being from New York and there is no record of a Sam Levey having fights there, I am wondering if the local promoter got the name of Levey wrong and he was really Joe Levy of Brooklyn. It wouldn't be the first time that an unknown out-of-town fighter was reported under a wrong or misspelled name.

[blfinish]

I actually would like it to be a win for Stan... reading this one got me back on my feet. So now Im back trying to see if there is anything about Joe Levy ...I'm sure it was Stan (Sam) Levey... Still connecting the dots
Thanks

[wsbuf]

I can check the other local papers when I get to library

[blfinish]

Great whatever you can find would be great and appreciated big time

[wsbuf]

Buffalo Evening News says Sam Levey also. But also said Tyler won by KO.
I added the weights

[blfinish]

Buffalo Evening News says Sam Levey also. But also said Tyler won by KO.
I added the weights

I just read the change Thank you very much I really appreciate it...


Very much appreciated...

Not so Baffaled In Buffalo :))