Golovkin is a bigger draw in California than Ward

[crusader]

Okay, prove that no one would forgo slightly higher purses for being a significantly bigger draw.

And again, you're pulling a red herring by responding with arguments that don't address the point I made, which is that one's purses don't always reflect their drawing power.

[crusader]

Yes, typically.

No, always.

Money always comes first.

We arent talking about falling in love with a woman.

We are talking about the reason guys fight. For a prize. They are prize fighters. It's always about the $.

It is a job to these guys.Money matters.Those that say it does not are kidding themselves.

Did anyone say that money doesn't matter to pro boxers?

[diddy]

That wasn't your point. Your point was money doesn't always come first. And that's just not correct.

[crusader]

That wasn't your point. Your point was money doesn't always come first. And that's just not correct.

My point was that one's purse doesn't necessarily equal their drawing power. You responded to my initial comment raising that point by mentioning an irrelevant issue of whether fighters would prefer to make more and be relatively small draw, or make less and be a relatively big draw.

In responding to your tangent I said that it would typically be the former, which I'm sure you agree with if you know the definition of typically. You then seem to suggest that no fighter in any circumstance would take the latter, but I highly doubt that you have enough information for such a sweeping statement to be appropriate.

[ikorolev]

Payment doesn't always correspond with how big of a draw someone is. Do people not think that a fighter can be overpaid relative to their drawing power?

Whilst there are usually a variety of factors influencing the size of a fighters purse, it's an irrefutable fact that market demand is the main driver of revenue generation... and professional boxing is undeniably a business, with pugilists being labelled as "PRIZE" fighters rather than "PRIDE" fighters!

There's a reason why fighters like Froch and Ward "consistently" receive fight purses that are more than double those received by Golovkin, it's because far more "casual" boxing observers know who these guys are.

Simply put: GGG has not broken into the mainstream yet... and this may be because his fights have only been televised by HBO since 2012, his English isn't particularly good (so he receives very little publicity from the British & US media), and the calibre of opposition he has faced can only be described as mediocre at best (in comparison to "MOST" of those guys that usually receive bigger fight purses)!

Perceived "talent" or "ability" is not synonymous with "popularity"... and there is an undeniable correlation between market demand and revenue generation!

Ward is not popular among casual fans outside of Northern California. He just wouldn't fight for Golovkin's size of purse, because he achieved more in his career and thinks very high of himself. Golovkin was brought to HBO only two years ago, and he is happy with purses he is getting. He could demand and receive more though.

[crusader]

Payment doesn't always correspond with how big of a draw someone is. Do people not think that a fighter can be overpaid relative to their drawing power?

Whilst there are usually a variety of factors influencing the size of a fighters purse, it's an irrefutable fact that market demand is the main driver of revenue generation... and professional boxing is undeniably a business, with pugilists being labelled as "PRIZE" fighters rather than "PRIDE" fighters!

There's a reason why fighters like Froch and Ward "consistently" receive fight purses that are more than double those received by Golovkin, it's because far more "casual" boxing observers know who these guys are.

Simply put: GGG has not broken into the mainstream yet... and this may be because his fights have only been televised by HBO since 2012, his English isn't particularly good (so he receives very little publicity from the British & US media), and the calibre of opposition he has faced can only be described as mediocre at best (in comparison to "MOST" of those guys that usually receive bigger fight purses)!

Perceived "talent" or "ability" is not synonymous with "popularity"... and there is an undeniable correlation between market demand and revenue generation!

No one said there isn't a correlation between market demand and revenue generation, but correlation doesn't equate to causation and you even concede that there are many other factors that influence the purses a fighter receives, meaning that you acknowledge that factors other than a fighter's drawing power impact their purses. By extension, that means that a fighter's purse doesn't necessarily correspond to their drawing power, which is the point I was making.

Ward may be more known among casual boxing fans, but for that argument to hold he'll need the superior figures to support it. GGG's recent attendance figures seem to be surpassing Ward's, and although the former's TV ratings were down last fight they have generally been climbing and he has clearly been a fighter in the ascendancy. It seems highly unlikely to me that Ward's high purses are a strong reflection of his drawing power given what other fighters with comparable attendance and viewership numbers, arguably like GGG, are receiving.

[ReggieDiggs]

Who has the gate for this fight & Andre's last couple?

Seeing attendance numbers & seems like GGG did double what Andre did last time, but how much the tickets were is important to. Its not really surprising though as things lay that GGG would do better. GGG has a more fan friendly style & Andre hasn't been very active lately which would hurt most guys drawing power.

[crusader]

Not sure of the gate, but for those curious about last night's attendance Rafael tweeted:

Attendance for #GolovkinRubio last night was 9,323 -- over capacity and largest attendance in the history of the stadium, according to AEG

[crusader]

The purse disparity could also be explained by poor business decisions and/or Ward's perceived potential drawing power rather than what it currently is.

[crusader]

Rafael:

RO crowd of 9,323. Ward-Abraham: 5,311 in same arena for arguably bigger fight in Ward's home state & Super Six.

[ikorolev]

Putting Ward and Froch near each other when talking about drawing power is ridiculous.

Regarding demands, I have no doubts that if GGG demanded let's say 20% more for his last fight, he would have gotten it. Fighters from former Soviet Union have different mentality than American born fighters. They are just happy that they are getting huge money they couldn't dream about before and are not demanding more, at least up to a certain point in their careers.

[crusader]

The purse disparity could also be explained by poor business decisions and/or Ward's perceived potential drawing power rather than what it currently is.

This clearly isn't the case and you know it. Froch and Ward have been earning paydays much larger than Golovkin's for several years even though they've both competed in fewer world title fights and have been on the world scene for roughly the same amount of time (circa 2008).

I was speaking more specifically about the $2 million-$900k comparison I've seen, but nothing you've said in this post suggests that those explanations are inapplicable more generally. Especially with the SS there may have been more willingness to put large money on the table due to a belief that the winner would later have great drawing power.

Does anyone know the gates/attendance, TV ratings, and purses for Ward's SS fights? If he was getting more than GGG recently has despite drawing inferior figures that would be solid evidence that factors other than their drawing power at the time are needed to explain the purse disparities.

[crusader]

Rafael:

RO crowd of 9,323. Ward-Abraham: 5,311 in same arena for arguably bigger fight in Ward's home state & Super Six.

Stop looking at numbers and start looking at dollars!

Dollars are clearly the most important figure but there tends to be a relationship between them and attendance numbers so I think it's worthwhile to list the latter. The disparity in this case is such that I doubt that Ward-Abraham would've had a larger gate, though it's a possibility.

[KBB]

Most boxing fans like fearless ring warriors, not prima donnas who rarely fight and demand all the advantages such as home advantage.

They want entertaining fights, not boxers clamping their opponent's arms and fouling.

California is Andre Ward's home state, but Gennady Golovkin, a fearless ring warrior from halfway around the globe, has become more popular there than Ward!

There was a huge demand for tickets for last night's fight. Did you hear crowd cheering for him and chanting Golovkin's name?

Honestly who really cares that Golovkin is a bigger draw than Ward (as though that is something impossible to believe) it isn't like the action junkie fans of today care to see a surgeon like Ward operate as opposed to a seek and destroy fighter like Gennady come in with one purpose (to knock your head into orbit).

This proves nothing, if Golovkin really wants to test himself he should go after Ward instead of making excuses not to fight him and calling out a smallish Mayweather.

I like Golovkin but I've never seen a guy get so much mileage out of blasting out bums since Tyson did it. It's time to step up the comp, I know it isn't his fault that many of the cowards like Kid Chocolate and the likes won't face him but Andre Ward has called him out several times and their only response has been "I'm a Middleweight", then when someone mentions Mayweather he is ready to drop down.

He can't have it both ways...................the lesser draw in Ward is waiting for him.

[ikorolev]

Loefler's words only confirm that Ward demanded a lion share portion of a purse making fight with him economically unattractive for GGG Team. In no way his statement proves any of your points.

[ikorolev]

Most boxing fans like fearless ring warriors, not prima donnas who rarely fight and demand all the advantages such as home advantage.

They want entertaining fights, not boxers clamping their opponent's arms and fouling.

California is Andre Ward's home state, but Gennady Golovkin, a fearless ring warrior from halfway around the globe, has become more popular there than Ward!

There was a huge demand for tickets for last night's fight. Did you hear crowd cheering for him and chanting Golovkin's name?

Honestly who really cares that Golovkin is a bigger draw than Ward (as though that is something impossible to believe) it isn't like the action junkie fans of today care to see a surgeon like Ward operate as opposed to a seek and destroy fighter like Gennady come in with one purpose (to knock your head into orbit).

This proves nothing, if Golovkin really wants to test himself he should go after Ward instead of making excuses not to fight him and calling out a smallish Mayweather.

I like Golovkin but I've never seen a guy get so much mileage out of blasting out bums since Tyson did it. It's time to step up the comp, I know it isn't his fault that many of the cowards like Kid Chocolate and the likes won't face him but Andre Ward has called him out several times and their only response has been "I'm a Middleweight", then when someone mentions Mayweather he is ready to drop down.

He can't have it both ways...................the lesser draw in Ward is waiting for him.

When the lesser draw stops thinking that he is an "A" side, that fight will happen.

[ikorolev]

Loefler's words only confirm that Ward demanded a lion share portion of a purse making fight with him economically unattractive for GGG Team. In no way his statement proves any of your points.

People claim that Golovkin's top-tier world-class rivals are running scared of him, because they demand too much money, whereas Tom Loeffler is doing precisely that with Ward.

Also, you've wrongly assumed that fighters from the former Soviet Union are simply happy to receive a good payday, when in fact Golovkin clearly wants much more in order to face Andre Ward, which leads Tom Loeffler to explain that it wouldn't be economically viable.

Of course, GGG Team wants more for the Ward fight than for Geale or Rubio. Ward is the most risky opponent out there, so there is no point to fight him for the same kind of money as for fighting Geale. One thing is demand more money from your own promoter and another thing is to demand a fair split of a purse.

[ikorolev]

Froch and Ward are on two different levels in terms of demand and fan base. GGG already surpassed Ward in these areas but has ways to go to Froch level.

[ikorolev]

Froch and Ward are on two different levels in terms of demand and fan base. GGG already surpassed Ward in these areas but has ways to go to Froch level.

Quantify this statement by supplying evidence to support your claims? Golovkin's purse alone suggests that this is not the case.

For example: Edwin Rodriguez's original purse for his bout with Andre Ward was $1m, which is $100K more than what GGG was paid to face Rubio.

The money has to come from somewhere...

To me it just says that Ward's late promoter was doing much better job getting money from HBO than Loefler does for GGG or GGG's promoter is pocketing more money.

[KBB]

When the lesser draw stops thinking that he is an "A" side, that fight will happen.



That's BS, Golovkin has never stated he wanted to fight Ward and if he (Golovkin) made that statement you just said then please provide the source/link????

We're waiting.............................

[ikorolev]

Ward is always talking that he is a star and GGG isn't yet clearly showing that he thinks that he is an "A" side.

Do you have an evidence of Ward sending ANY offer to GGG to say nothing of a fair offer ? He is just talking that he is ready to fight GGG, there is no evidence that he can fight anybody now.

[Purse Bid Shakedown]

Froch and Ward are on two different levels in terms of demand and fan base. GGG already surpassed Ward in these areas but has ways to go to Froch level.

Quantify this statement by supplying evidence to support your claims? Golovkin's purse alone suggests that this is not the case.

For example: Edwin Rodriguez's original purse for his bout with Andre Ward was $1m, which is $100K more than what GGG was paid to face Rubio.

The money has to come from somewhere...

Youre undermining your own point. So is Rodriuez now a better draw cause he got a higher career purse? Thats what youre implying. Ever heard of Berto?

[KBB]

Ward is always talking that he is a star and GGG isn't yet clearly showing that he thinks that he is an "A" side.

Do you have an evidence of Ward sending ANY offer to GGG to say nothing of a fair offer ? He is just talking that he is ready to fight GGG, there is no evidence that he can fight anybody now.

Like I said, you don't have anything to prove what you stated but yet you're asking me to provide something regarding Ward being the "A" side or not in comparison to make up for your utter BS you stated about Golovkin vs Ward.

You have ZERO objectivity which makes it impossible to talk about "real boxing" with you because you are simply defending the guys you are a fan of and not being fair in your assessment regarding the sport of boxing. You may as well be one of the casual fans.

One thing I do have evidence of is Ward calling Golovkin out and triple G's team saying that he isn't ready for Ward but yet he is ready for the smaller Mayweather, go figure.

Either he is afraid that Ward whups him easily and is unwilling to move up and take the fight or he's overconfident he can beat up on the much smaller guys like Floyd and Pacquiao who he never says that he is only a Middleweight to.

[Purse Bid Shakedown]

Ward is always talking that he is a star and GGG isn't yet clearly showing that he thinks that he is an "A" side.

Do you have an evidence of Ward sending ANY offer to GGG to say nothing of a fair offer ? He is just talking that he is ready to fight GGG, there is no evidence that he can fight anybody now.

Like I said, you don't have anything to prove what you stated but yet you're asking me to provide something regarding Ward being the "A" side or not in comparison to make up for your utter BS you stated about Golovkin vs Ward.

You have ZERO objectivity which makes it impossible to talk about "real boxing" with you because you are simply defending the guys you are a fan of and not being fair in your assessment regarding the sport of boxing. You may as well be one of the casual fans.

One thing I do have evidence of is Ward calling Golovkin out and triple G's team saying that he isn't ready for Ward but yet he is ready for the smaller Mayweather, go figure.

Either he is afraid that Ward whups him easily and is unwilling to move up and take the fight or he's overconfident he can beat up on the much smaller guys like Floyd and Pacquiao who he never says that he is only a Middleweight to.

Well the Floyd fight is way more money and exposure, no contest. Hell Ward cant even produce an offer. What kind of A sider is that?

[KBB]

Well the Floyd fight is way more money and exposure, no contest. Hell Ward cant even produce an offer. What kind of A sider is that?

Where's the offer from Golovkin???