Duane Bobick vs John Tate

[HomicideHenry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trbNn83CtL8

After losing to Ken Norton, this was the last chance ditch effort for Bobick to prove he still belonged among the top ten heavyweights in the world. However, due to alcoholism and drug use (and having a weak chin) Bobick never was able to restore the old faith people had in him. His loss to Tate, forever sealed him as a white hope.

[The Great John L]

In this fight, wouldn't you call that more a lack of defense issue than chin issue? He took a lot of big shots from a 230 pound guy. Tate wasn't noted as a particularly hard puncher, but he threw very good simple combinations and could land pretty solidly.

Bobick also never seemed to learn how to tie up an opponent.

[HomicideHenry]

In this fight, wouldn't you call that more a lack of defense issue than chin issue? He took a lot of big shots from a 230 pound guy. Tate wasn't noted as a particularly hard puncher, but he threw very good simple combinations and could land pretty solidly.

Bobick also never seemed to learn how to tie up an opponent.

You may be right on that. For me, personally, Bobick's "weak chin" issue seemed more out of emotional/mental duress than it was physical. After losing to Norton the way he did, I don't think he was able to overcome that loss. Some people become truly destroyed on the inside when it happens to them. Especially those who are built up to be something more than they may be worth.

That being said, Bobick did have good skills--- but he was basically a big, strong, tough man who imposed his will on his opponents. He hit hard, but he wasn't the murderous puncher some said he was. I interviewed Chuck Wepner once, and asked him his thoughts on Bobick, and he said "He hit hard, but he hit nowhere near as hard as Foreman and Liston could." Still, in my minds eye, I wish politics wasn't so corrupt and that Duane could of gotten that fight with Ali. I think, because of Ali being so far gone in speed and self-discipline, and that Bobick was being groomed essentially for Ali--- that he would of risen to the occasion and of beaten him. Who knows how a rematch with a motivated Ali would of went, but I do think style-wise, conditions-wise, Bobick could have beaten Ali at that time.

[Broomhall]

I am not sure Bobick ever really recovered from his loss to Stevenson in Munich which was a bad defeat.

[The Great John L]

I am not sure Bobick ever really recovered from his loss to Stevenson in Munich which was a bad defeat.

He certainly took a hellacious beating. Teo administired a pretty bad beatdown on a 185 pound Dokes as well. That was tough to watch, although Mike kept getting up and fighting back.

[Caractacus]

I am not sure Bobick ever really recovered from his loss to Stevenson in Munich which was a bad defeat.

Actually(from what I read somewhere)
The Stevenson vs Bobick bout at the 1972 Olympics was fairly even until the last round.
Bobick may have even won a round.
But I never seen the entire bout on video to seen that myself.
ABC will not let anyone see em for some reason.

[Caractacus]

At some point in 1975 ,Bobick switched camps from
Bill Daniels in Denver Colorado to Joe Frazier in Philadelphia.
I have never seen any of his pro fights
when he was with Daniels.
I get the feeling when Bobick went to Philadelphia
they may have changed his fightin style,
and wanted him to become another Jerry Quarry.

[Broomhall]

I am not sure Bobick ever really recovered from his loss to Stevenson in Munich which was a bad defeat.

Actually(from what I read somewhere)
The Stevenson vs Bobick bout at the 1972 Olympics was fairly even until the last round.
Bobick may have even won a round.
But I never seen the entire bout on video to seen that myself.
ABC will not let anyone see em for some reason.

I think getting Ko'd in the manner stevenson took him apart in that round, regardless of what went before, would stay in any fighters mind, particularly given that Bobick had beaten Stevenson in the Pan Ams. John Tate was similarly dispatched by Stevenson and I think defeats like that can stay with you.

[bluerosekiller]

I'm sure that the loss to Stevenson stayed with him as it was Bobick who was seen as the favorite to win the gold medal, so he likely never really got over that loss. But, I don't think that that's what did him him as a pro as he did beat some decent opponents in going 38-0. Not many, but enough to test his heart & his mental state. And they seemed sound.
But, that KO by 1 to Norton in MSG in what was supposed to his big night. His coronation as the #1 contender to Ali. THAT was the finisher as he never again was able to beat a legitimately good heavyweight ( with his KO8 over Scott Ledoux being the exception, but then he just had Ledoux's number ).
All the rest of his victories post-Norton were journeymen at best. Most just oft-beaten clubfighters really.
The three times that he stepped up in opposition he was beaten soundly ( Knoetze KO by 3, Tate KO by 1 & finally in his career ender he was outboxed & stopped on cuts in 7 by the decent George Chaplin who went on to beat Earnie Shavers & SHOULD have had to decision wins over Greg Page.

It's pretty sad really because like HomicideHenry said earlier, had he not taken the Norton fight & just taken a fight or two against easier opponents that he could have beaten, he'd surely have gotten the Ali fight regardless & if one looks at the bouts that Ali had around that time ( the gift win over Norton, the very lackluster W15 over the undeserving challenger in Evangelista, his squeeker over Shavers & the L15 & W15 with Spinks ) it's easy to see how an aggressive, uber-motivated, smothering, body banging Bobick could have beaten the past it Ali. Who by that time couldn't really crack an egg anymore & therefore was very unlikely to have been able to keep Bobick off of him. Bobick would have used basically the same game plan that "Neon" Leon used to beat Ali excent that Bobick was more polished, experienced, a better bodypuncher & hit harder than Spinks did. So, I believe that Bobick would have beaten Ali via a W15. MAYBE even via a late round TKO with Angelo Dundee either saving Ali from further excessive punishment by keeping him in the corner ( like he did vs Holmes ) or throwing in the towell.
And no, I'm not saying this as an Ali hater at all. Infact, I was a huge Ali fan except when he was fighting Ken Norton. But Ali was definitely damaged goods after that rubber match in Yankee Stadium. Yeah, he was able to rise to the occasion in MSG to narrowly beat Shavers, but IMO that's only because Earnie had too much respect for Ali & didn't go hellbent for leather like he should have. He had a couple of definite missed opportunities to KO Ali ( especially in the second round ), but he backed off when he should have let the bombs fly, plus he didn't set a fast pace to win more rounds because he was too worried about going the full 15 rounds. It was actually the last example of Ali using his mind, his tricks of the trade & his aura to beat an opponent.
But, those things wouldn't have had the same effect on Bobick as he had the great Eddie Futch in his corner who was a master game planner vs Ali & would have had Bobick prepared for him, just like he had previously with Frazier & Norton.

That's my opinion anyhow, which with a couple of bucks might get me a cup of coffee.
- Jim Allcorn

[Caractacus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trbNn83CtL8

After losing to Ken Norton, this was the last chance ditch effort for Bobick to prove he still belonged among the top ten heavyweights in the world. However, due to alcoholism and drug use (and having a weak chin) Bobick never was able to restore the old faith people had in him. His loss to Tate, forever sealed him as a white hope.

Whats missing from the clip is about the 15 minute segment that proceeded it"up Close &Personal with Duane Bobick'
Looks to me it may have been that right hook Tate landed at about 0:38
that sent Bobick immediatly into a downward spiral.

[Caractacus]

yeah,Bobick always seemed to be too uptight in the first rounds.
also if I was his manager,I would have ordered Bobick to cut his hair short
close to his head,because when you have big hair
everytime someone lands even a jab it makes it look like a big exclamation point!
there is plenty of time for being stylish between fights.
(same went for Joe Bugner).

[L.A. kidd]

bobick, was heavily favored to beat Stevenson, all said he lost to a better fighter, bobick has no excuses. he was fed set ups
to get his undefeated record, his dismal loss to Norton when Norton was the only qualified opponent he ever faced.
exposed him for the inferior fighter he actually was. I really cant see people making excuses for the bum.
bobick beating ali? no way jose!!

[Nile4000]

I am not sure Bobick ever really recovered from his loss to Stevenson in Munich which was a bad defeat.

He certainly took a hellacious beating. Teo administired a pretty bad beatdown on a 185 pound Dokes as well. That was tough to watch, although Mike kept getting up and fighting back.

Dokes was a real man, and Stevenson was lucky that Dokes didn't have to fight him again in the ring, or even in the streets, where Dokes would've killed him.

[Nile4000]

I'm sure that the loss to Stevenson stayed with him as it was Bobick who was seen as the favorite to win the gold medal, so he likely never really got over that loss. But, I don't think that that's what did him him as a pro as he did beat some decent opponents in going 38-0. Not many, but enough to test his heart & his mental state. And they seemed sound.
But, that KO by 1 to Norton in MSG in what was supposed to his big night. His coronation as the #1 contender to Ali. THAT was the finisher as he never again was able to beat a legitimately good heavyweight ( with his KO8 over Scott Ledoux being the exception, but then he just had Ledoux's number ).
All the rest of his victories post-Norton were journeymen at best. Most just oft-beaten clubfighters really.
The three times that he stepped up in opposition he was beaten soundly ( Knoetze KO by 3, Tate KO by 1 & finally in his career ender he was outboxed & stopped on cuts in 7 by the decent George Chaplin who went on to beat Earnie Shavers & SHOULD have had to decision wins over Greg Page.

It's pretty sad really because like HomicideHenry said earlier, had he not taken the Norton fight & just taken a fight or two against easier opponents that he could have beaten, he'd surely have gotten the Ali fight regardless & if one looks at the bouts that Ali had around that time ( the gift win over Norton, the very lackluster W15 over the undeserving challenger in Evangelista, his squeeker over Shavers & the L15 & W15 with Spinks ) it's easy to see how an aggressive, uber-motivated, smothering, body banging Bobick could have beaten the past it Ali. Who by that time couldn't really crack an egg anymore & therefore was very unlikely to have been able to keep Bobick off of him. Bobick would have used basically the same game plan that "Neon" Leon used to beat Ali excent that Bobick was more polished, experienced, a better bodypuncher & hit harder than Spinks did. So, I believe that Bobick would have beaten Ali via a W15. MAYBE even via a late round TKO with Angelo Dundee either saving Ali from further excessive punishment by keeping him in the corner ( like he did vs Holmes ) or throwing in the towell.
And no, I'm not saying this as an Ali hater at all. Infact, I was a huge Ali fan except when he was fighting Ken Norton. But Ali was definitely damaged goods after that rubber match in Yankee Stadium. Yeah, he was able to rise to the occasion in MSG to narrowly beat Shavers, but IMO that's only because Earnie had too much respect for Ali & didn't go hellbent for leather like he should have. He had a couple of definite missed opportunities to KO Ali ( especially in the second round ), but he backed off when he should have let the bombs fly, plus he didn't set a fast pace to win more rounds because he was too worried about going the full 15 rounds. It was actually the last example of Ali using his mind, his tricks of the trade & his aura to beat an opponent.
But, those things wouldn't have had the same effect on Bobick as he had the great Eddie Futch in his corner who was a master game planner vs Ali & would have had Bobick prepared for him, just like he had previously with Frazier & Norton.

That's my opinion anyhow, which with a couple of bucks might get me a cup of coffee.
- Jim Allcorn

Page beat Chaplin both times, Albeit in close fights, especially the second one.

[Giancarlo]

Dokes was a real man, and Stevenson was lucky that Dokes didn't have to fight him again in the ring, or even in the streets, where Dokes would've killed him.

Like he almost killed that woman?

[dempseyfire]

Bobick was actually considered a banger who could "take it" and keep coming prior to the Norton loss. It does seem a lot of his chin issues were mental as much as physical.

[HomicideHenry]

Bobick was actually considered a banger who could "take it" and keep coming prior to the Norton loss. It does seem a lot of his chin issues were mental as much as physical.

The issue or problem with the theory Bobick could "take it" is when one looks back on his record, there wasn't that many proven 'punchers' on his resume that he fought. Wepner certainly was no puncher. Neither was Scott LeDoux. Or Randy Neumann. It must be noted, though, that Bobick did fight and defeat a young, green and raw Mike Weaver (WKO7) who was a man of noted power. It seemed to me, that Bobick essentially was force fed alot of guys who were good fighters--- but were no real threat, because they lacked any real offense. Because of this, he had no real means or way to cope with guys who came straight at him.

When the bubble burst in MSG against Norton, the word was out on Bobick. Go for his chin. That's why Knoetzee was able to stop him, and so did Tate. The end of the road was against George Chaplin... but that fight ended because of cuts. Still, even in that fight it seemed all the desire and confidence that once existed in him, was all gone. Bobick at 28 years old would never fight again. His story, reminds me of another boxer by the name of Billy Wells, who was supposed to fight Jack Johnson--- but he was kayoed in devestating fashion by Gunner Moir, a former title challenger. A stepping stone fight, which ended only in ruin.

[Broomhall]

I am not sure Bobick ever really recovered from his loss to Stevenson in Munich which was a bad defeat.

He certainly took a hellacious beating. Teo administired a pretty bad beatdown on a 185 pound Dokes as well. That was tough to watch, although Mike kept getting up and fighting back.

Dokes was a real man, and Stevenson was lucky that Dokes didn't have to fight him again in the ring, or even in the streets, where Dokes would've killed him.

Why would Stevenson want to fight Dokes in the street? How would Dokes even meet Stevenson in a Cuban street? Have you been sniffing glue again?

[scartissue]

I followed Bobick's career from his first pro bout against Tommy Burns to the Chaplin fight, watching him several times. I always came to the same conclusion when watching him that he was a notoriously slow starter. Something that is amazing when you consider his amateur success. But if you could get him within the first 3 rounds you had a chance of finishing him. Once hurt the discombobulation just inserted itself in him and the opportunity was there. Stevenson, Tate, Norton and Knoetzee all took advantage of it. I remember the Young Sanford fight. I gave Sanford the first three rounds and then Duane came on and took the last 7. I also recall the Bunny Johnson fight where Bunny had him a little bit buzzed early and then missed a scorcher of a right hand and that was his missed opportunity. Duane was warming up and came on strong just like the Sanford fight. The magazines at the time were picking Duane over Norton and talking an Ali fight, but I had picked Norton to chop him up within 3. Not that I am some great seer, but I had seen so much of Duane that I just knew what to expect and I suspect a lot of trainers did too.

[Nile4000]

Dokes was a real man, and Stevenson was lucky that Dokes didn't have to fight him again in the ring, or even in the streets, where Dokes would've killed him.

Like he almost killed that woman?

That's right.Stevenson was soft.

[Nile4000]

@Broomhall

Dokes was a legitimate tough guy, and Stevenson was fortunate to beat him that time.Teofilo was soft, the guy lost to Igor Vysotsky twice, and everyone thinks he's the golden child.No glue involved, just good reasoning.

[HomicideHenry]

Stevenson was always a big mystery to me in alot of ways. While I do acknowledge his amateur greatness, what his all-around worth really was is the big question. People point out the three gold medals, and how he had 300+ matches. But what people fail to mention, also, is that in the amateur system in those times (don't know if it still is that way) it was all a 'draw of the hat' as to who you would fight against. And some of the time... Stevenson as a full grown man, competed against teenagers.

That being said, Bobick as an amateur impressed me. True, he lost to Stevenson, but he also beat Stevenson. He also beat Holmes in the amateurs. For all indications sake, Bobick did for a long time look like the real deal. It's a shame, how he is today. Last year I made contact with him and his wife (tried to interview him on radio show), and his wife sadly told me that she has to work and poor Duane has to spend the daytime hours in a daycare center for adults because of his dementia.

[Caractacus]

exposed him for the inferior fighter he actually was. I really cant see people making excuses for the bum.
bobick beating ali? no way jose!!

Man,sounds like you been drinkin the revisionist Kool-Aid.
Sir,Duane Bobick had won over 100 fights as an amateur boxer.
and they dont give medals to 'Bums'.

[Broomhall]

@Broomhall

Dokes was a legitimate tough guy, and Stevenson was fortunate to beat him that time.Teofilo was soft, the guy lost to Igor Vysotsky twice, and everyone thinks he's the golden child.No glue involved, just good reasoning.

I dont care how tough Dokes was. Stevenson beat him. To describe the worlds leading amateur heavyweight for the period that Stevenson was on top as "soft" defies any logic or I think good reasoning. Of course he got beat a few times-so what, the guy had over 300 fights.

Also Homicide when Stevenson beat Bobick he was 19 and Bobick 21, so it wasnt a case of beating up teenagers all the time. Many of the countries that Stevenson fought against had full time amateur programmes as well so Stevenson would have been fighting grown men for the majority of the time in the major championships.

[HomicideHenry]

@Broomhall

Dokes was a legitimate tough guy, and Stevenson was fortunate to beat him that time.Teofilo was soft, the guy lost to Igor Vysotsky twice, and everyone thinks he's the golden child.No glue involved, just good reasoning.

I dont care how tough Dokes was. Stevenson beat him. To describe the worlds leading amateur heavyweight for the period that Stevenson was on top as "soft" defies any logic or I think good reasoning. Of course he got beat a few times-so what, the guy had over 300 fights.

Also Homicide when Stevenson beat Bobick he was 19 and Bobick 21, so it wasnt a case of beating up teenagers all the time. Many of the countries that Stevenson fought against had full time amateur programmes as well so Stevenson would have been fighting grown men for the majority of the time in the major championships.

I never said all the time, I said from time to time.

As for this whole argument of amateur and professional, Dokes was special as a amateur but he was an amazing talent in the pros. Same with Holmes. In Bobick's case, he seemed to be a constant--- he was good in the am's and pro's, but when he faced the absolute top men there, he would lose. Didn't mean he didn't belong with them, or among the top ten, etc. it just meant he was a shade beneath them. It's no disgrace. When you get that high up in the rankings--- you really are splitting hairs as to how good/great someone really is.