did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

L.A. kidd · Post by **L.A. kidd** » 24 Oct 2014, 19:01

were these fighters holding back from giving their all, after killing a man in the ring.
1........ emille griffth, Clancy said he was never the same, after the paret fight.

2....... ezzard Charles, all indications say, no, it never affected him.

3...... sugar ray robinson, no, he never seemed to let it bother him.

4...... boom-boom mancini, yes, im sure it affected his fights

5...... sugar ramos, most fight fans will say yes, he was never the same

6...... max baer, definitely. never had the same desire.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 24 Oct 2014, 19:23

L.A. kidd wrote:were these fighters holding back from giving their all, after killing a man in the ring.

1........ emille griffth, Clancy said he was never the same, after the paret fight.

2....... ezzard Charles, all indications say, no, it never affected him.

3...... sugar ray robinson, no, he never seemed to let it bother him.

4...... boom-boom mancini, yes, im sure it affected his fights

5...... sugar ramos, most fight fans will say yes, he was never the same

6...... max baer, definitely. never had the same desire.

Baer is the most interesting, in my view, of this question than the rest.

While he did change his tactics and mood in fights, following Campbell, he wasn't completely an innocent.

One needs look at his matches with Carnera, Schmeling and Galento to see just how viscous he could be.

L.A. kidd · Post by **L.A. kidd** » 24 Oct 2014, 19:59

yes, they say that baer was also responsible for the death of ernie schaff, whom baer had given a terrible beating.

schaff was killed following a bout with primo carnera, whom schaff fought a few months after his bout with max.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 25 Oct 2014, 01:11

charles' killing of sam baroudi had a huge effect on him. he wanted to quit boxing...it took his pastor and baroudi's family to convince him that he shouldn't. he was never the same after. if he could win by a decision or cuts he went for that instead of knockouts. yes, he fought some wars afterward but only when he had to. this has been written about many times, and i know it from personal conversations with his camp. i was told never to mention the baroudi fight whenever i talked to him.

L.A. kidd · Post by **L.A. kidd** » 25 Oct 2014, 02:42

ok, ill have to revise my thinking on that one. I believe you.

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 26 Oct 2014, 18:03

Any thoughts on whether the Jimmy Garcia tragedy had any effect of Gabe Ruelas.
He gave conflicting answers to that query at different times of his career.

When he was drubbed by Azumah Nelson, Ruelas claimed afterward that he saw Garcia's ghost in the ring and couldn't perform.
A few years later, he recanted and said the ghost story was BS. He merely gave the media and the fans what he believed they wanted to hear.

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 26 Oct 2014, 18:03

Any thoughts on whether the Jimmy Garcia tragedy had any effect of Gabe Ruelas.
He gave conflicting answers to that query at different times of his career.

When he was drubbed by Azumah Nelson, Ruelas claimed afterward that he saw Garcia's ghost in the ring and couldn't perform.
A few years later, he recanted and said the ghost story was BS. He merely gave the media and the fans what he believed they wanted to hear.

Tomasino · Post by **Tomasino** » 26 Oct 2014, 18:33

Jaclem wrote:charles' killing of sam baroudi had a huge effect on him. he wanted to quit boxing...it took his pastor and baroudi's family to convince him that he shouldn't. he was never the same after. if he could win by a decision or cuts he went for that instead of knockouts. yes, he fought some wars afterward but only when he had to. this has been written about many times, and i know it from personal conversations with his camp. i was told never to mention the baroudi fight whenever i talked to him.

I think he gave away weight in every fight he had since the Baroudi fight...maybe Bivins was lightest...he was a big puncher at lt heavyweight.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 28 Oct 2014, 03:53

supposedly Baroudi "killed" this guy. makes it kinda odd IF correct info.

"Newton sadly died in a fight on 8-15-47 with Sam Baroudi..."

Ambling Alp II · Post by **Ambling Alp II** » 29 Oct 2014, 11:01

L.A. kidd wrote:were these fighters holding back from giving their all, after killing a man in the ring.
1........ emille griffth, Clancy said he was never the same, after the paret fight.

2....... ezzard Charles, all indications say, no, it never affected him.

3...... sugar ray robinson, no, he never seemed to let it bother him.

4...... boom-boom mancini, yes, im sure it affected his fights

5...... sugar ramos, most fight fans will say yes, he was never the same

6...... max baer, definitely. never had the same desire.

Maybe for Mancini and Ramos, but no for the others. They didn't seem to be any different at all.

As for Baer, it isn't clear at all that Schaaf died because of the Baer fight. Schaaf didn't die immediately and he had other fights after this.

wsbuf · Post by **wsbuf** » 29 Oct 2014, 15:28

I always wondered how Gaetan Hart felt. Ralph Racine slipped into a 3-day coma after their fight then in his next fight 6 weeks later Cleveland Denny passed away after their fight.

L.A. kidd · Post by **L.A. kidd** » 30 Oct 2014, 01:49

ambling alp, I don't know where or when it started, the notion that the baer fight was the fight that hurt schaff so bad that baer was responsible in an indirect way for his death, when primo carnera killed schaff 8 months later. however a lot of boxing people believe it to be true,

ive always heard that schaff took a terrible beating from baer, and many attribute his death from injuries suffered from the baer bout. I do know that baer was terribly affected from campbells death, and he never again cut lose on anyone after that fight.

he held back from throwing his right with all he had.

orbtastic · Post by **orbtastic** » 30 Oct 2014, 07:00

I thought it was accepted logic that Baer did for Schaff far more than Carnera ever did.

Baer knocked him cold and he was out for a long time and complained of headaches for a while after. He did have quite a few fights between the Baer fight and his last fight.

Ambling Alp II · Post by **Ambling Alp II** » 30 Oct 2014, 10:28

It is accepted logic by some people; doesn't mean it is true. Could have been from the fights he had between Baer and Carnera. Could have been a culmination of all or some of these fights, which is what I am guessing.

Find it hard to believe that it was solely from the Baer fight given that he didn't die immediately following the Baer fight; it was 5 months later he fought Carnera.

It makes a better story if was mostly due to the Baer fight and then Baer was never the same.

That Baer was never the same isn't true at all either. Arguably his best fights were against Schmeling and Carnera, which were after the Schaaf fight.

orbtastic · Post by **orbtastic** » 30 Oct 2014, 12:10

In the pre internet days, I recall reading it somewhere, must have been an old Ring mag...

Doesn't make it true of course.

I was curious today so Googled it. There are differing theories on it. One I read suggests the autopsy showed he had fluid on the brain and that he was suffering from 'flu a couple of weeks before his last fight but I have a couple of problems with that theory. Needless to say, there are no citations on the article etc.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 30 Oct 2014, 13:24

L.A. kidd wrote:were these fighters holding back from giving their all, after killing a man in the ring.
1........ emille griffth, Clancy said he was never the same, after the paret fight.

2....... ezzard Charles, all indications say, no, it never affected him.

3...... sugar ray robinson, no, he never seemed to let it bother him.

4...... boom-boom mancini, yes, im sure it affected his fights

5...... sugar ramos, most fight fans will say yes, he was never the same

6...... max baer, definitely. never had the same desire.

Sugar Ramos WAS NEVER THE SAME AFTER THE GREAT Vicente Saldivar made SUGAR CANES out of him.

L.A. kidd · Post by **L.A. kidd** » 30 Oct 2014, 18:47

orbtastic wrote:In the pre internet days, I recall reading it somewhere, must have been an old Ring mag...

Doesn't make it true of course.

I was curious today so Googled it. There are differing theories on it. One I read suggests the autopsy showed he had fluid on the brain and that he was suffering from 'flu a couple of weeks before his last fight but I have a couple of problems with that theory. Needless to say, there are no citations on the article etc.

yeah, I just checked schaff's record. after the baer fight he fought 3 more times. knocking out two of them, and, one was unknown Winston.

who wasn't anyone to take lightly no great contender,but, a journeyman. so, there might not be a lot to the talk of baer severly

damaging ernie schaff. you think it would show up soon after the fight. which apparently it didn't.

did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.

Re: did killing a man in the ring affect these fighters.