Duane Bobick vs John Tate

dempseyfire
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by dempseyfire »

HomicideHenry wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Bobick was actually considered a banger who could "take it" and keep coming prior to the Norton loss. It does seem a lot of his chin issues were mental as much as physical.
The issue or problem with the theory Bobick could "take it" is when one looks back on his record, there wasn't that many proven 'punchers' on his resume that he fought. Wepner certainly was no puncher. Neither was Scott LeDoux. Or Randy Neumann. It must be noted, though, that Bobick did fight and defeat a young, green and raw Mike Weaver (WKO7) who was a man of noted power. It seemed to me, that Bobick essentially was force fed alot of guys who were good fighters--- but were no real threat, because they lacked any real offense. Because of this, he had no real means or way to cope with guys who came straight at him.

When the bubble burst in MSG against Norton, the word was out on Bobick. Go for his chin. That's why Knoetzee was able to stop him, and so did Tate. The end of the road was against George Chaplin... but that fight ended because of cuts. Still, even in that fight it seemed all the desire and confidence that once existed in him, was all gone. Bobick at 28 years old would never fight again. His story, reminds me of another boxer by the name of Billy Wells, who was supposed to fight Jack Johnson--- but he was kayoed in devestating fashion by Gunner Moir, a former title challenger. A stepping stone fight, which ended only in ruin.

Agreed. Norton was definitely the first skilled puncher he'd faced.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Chuck1052 »

Duane Bobick simply didn't have the skills or the talent to compete successfully with the elite heavyweights in the professional ranks. I can't think of another ranked heavyweight who could be hit with telling punches to the head so easily during the last forty years.

- Chuck Johnston
BoxBuzz
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by BoxBuzz »

Giancarlo wrote:
Nile4000 wrote:
Dokes was a real man, and Stevenson was lucky that Dokes didn't have to fight him again in the ring, or even in the streets, where Dokes would've killed him.
Like he almost killed that woman?
Dokes was a guy who had potential...that he never really wrung out of himself. Partly because he was just plain wired wrong.

Didn't have a good set of values, which bore out in both his judgment and his work ethic.


Most of the time, having deficits in even one of those two areas, will eventually sink you. As it did him.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Broomhall »

BoxBuzz wrote:
Giancarlo wrote:
Nile4000 wrote:
Dokes was a real man, and Stevenson was lucky that Dokes didn't have to fight him again in the ring, or even in the streets, where Dokes would've killed him.
Like he almost killed that woman?
Dokes was a guy who had potential...that he never really wrung out of himself. Partly because he was just plain wired wrong.

Didn't have a good set of values, which bore out in both his judgment and his work ethic.


Most of the time, having deficits in even one of those two areas, will eventually sink you. As it did him.
A lot of those heavies at the time didnt reach their potential-Tubbs, Page, Tucker, Biggs Thomas etc-lot of wasted talent there.

I think that Bobick reminds me a lot of another other big white heavyweight who also never quite made it into the big time-Fransceco Damiani from Italy, who I think lost to Tyrell Biggs in the Olympics. Big guy, good jab but easy to hit and perhaps not as brave as Bobick.
HomicideHenry
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by HomicideHenry »

Chuck1052 wrote:Duane Bobick simply didn't have the skills or the talent to compete successfully with the elite heavyweights in the professional ranks. I can't think of another ranked heavyweight who could be hit with telling punches to the head so easily during the last forty years.

- Chuck Johnston
I'd argue that statement is untrue, if not unfounded.

This is a man who beat Chuck Wepner, who I'd argue was less skilled and less polished than Bobick.

The same Wepner that Ali defended the title against and who Bobick stopped on cuts.

If he (Bobick) was that wide open for counters and didn't have much talent, he wouldn't of beaten Neumann, LeDoux and others--- he beat good fighters, just none with any real pop to their punches at heavyweight. Norton was the first one, and I'd venture to say team Norton told their man to go for broke because Bobick was dangerous in his own way. Because it was rather unlike Norton to see him come out guns blazing going a million miles an hour on someone from the start.

I can think of quite a few men who got title shots, and were just as "wide open" or less skilled than Bobick, or simply had no business being in that ring with a top contender or champion---- I can't help but think back on Evangelista, Dunne, Coopman, Zanon, Cobb, Frank, Stander, etc.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Nile4000 »

Broomhall wrote:
Nile4000 wrote:@Broomhall

Dokes was a legitimate tough guy, and Stevenson was fortunate to beat him that time.Teofilo was soft, the guy lost to Igor Vysotsky twice, and everyone thinks he's the golden child.No glue involved, just good reasoning.
I dont care how tough Dokes was. Stevenson beat him. To describe the worlds leading amateur heavyweight for the period that Stevenson was on top as "soft" defies any logic or I think good reasoning. Of course he got beat a few times-so what, the guy had over 300 fights.

Also Homicide when Stevenson beat Bobick he was 19 and Bobick 21, so it wasnt a case of beating up teenagers all the time. Many of the countries that Stevenson fought against had full time amateur programmes as well so Stevenson would have been fighting grown men for the majority of the time in the major championships.
Teofilo could never beat Igor Vysotsky, couldn't explain that one away.
Caractacus
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Caractacus »

and I would like to say,who was the first big puncher that future heavyweight champ and boxing hall of famer Ken Norton had faced?
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Broomhall »

Nile4000 wrote:
Broomhall wrote:
Nile4000 wrote:@Broomhall

Dokes was a legitimate tough guy, and Stevenson was fortunate to beat him that time.Teofilo was soft, the guy lost to Igor Vysotsky twice, and everyone thinks he's the golden child.No glue involved, just good reasoning.
I dont care how tough Dokes was. Stevenson beat him. To describe the worlds leading amateur heavyweight for the period that Stevenson was on top as "soft" defies any logic or I think good reasoning. Of course he got beat a few times-so what, the guy had over 300 fights.

Also Homicide when Stevenson beat Bobick he was 19 and Bobick 21, so it wasnt a case of beating up teenagers all the time. Many of the countries that Stevenson fought against had full time amateur programmes as well so Stevenson would have been fighting grown men for the majority of the time in the major championships.
Teofilo could never beat Igor Vysotsky, couldn't explain that one away.
Why try to explain it away? Vysotsky clearly had his number-it happens in boxing-as an amateur I lost to the same guy 3 times, he just had my number, and it didnt matter how many times I boxed him he would always win, and yet overall I was more successful than he was. For Stevenson losing a few times in 300 fights doesnt make someone "soft" .
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Nile4000 »

Possibly, but it's inexplainable that Jimmy Clark and Angel Milian could beat Vysotsky, and Teofilo couldn't.And this is the same guy, the golden child, that many said would've beaten Ali.Ridiculous.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Broomhall »

Nile4000 wrote:Possibly, but it's inexplainable that Jimmy Clark and Angel Milian could beat Vysotsky, and Teofilo couldn't.And this is the same guy, the golden child, that many said would've beaten Ali.Ridiculous.
Why inexplicable?
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Caractacus »

HomicideHenry wrote:The issue or problem with the theory Bobick could "take it" is when one looks back on his record, there wasn't that many proven 'punchers' on his resume that he fought. Wepner certainly was no puncher. Neither was Scott LeDoux. Or Randy Neumann. It must be noted, though, that Bobick did fight and defeat a young, green and raw Mike Weaver (WKO7) who was a man of noted power. It seemed to me, that Bobick essentially was force fed alot of guys who were good fighters--- but were no real threat, because they lacked any real offense. Because of this, he had no real means or way to cope with guys who came straight at him.
Duane Bobick had aslo defeated future WBA champ Mike Weaver in the amateurs too.
I think it was in a All-Services Tournament
Bobick(Navy)
Weaver(Marines)
L.A. kidd
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by L.A. kidd »

bobick was such a disappointment in the Norton fight, and the tate fight, im wondering if he didn't

have oncoming dementia even then. he looked like a robot, he did the same thing both times, couldn't

get out of the way of punches.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Nile4000 »

If Teofilo had to face Vysotsky in the 1976 Olympics in Montreal, the luster would wear off quite a bit in how most percieve him in the boxing community.
HomicideHenry
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by HomicideHenry »

L.A. kidd wrote:bobick was such a disappointment in the Norton fight, and the tate fight, im wondering if he didn't

have oncoming dementia even then. he looked like a robot, he did the same thing both times, couldn't

get out of the way of punches.
Personally, I think alot of Duane's dementia was a result of many years of drinking and drug abuse in the years that followed his boxing career. I'm sure the shots from all those fighters didnt help matters--- but the truth is, alcoholism is also a triggering factor in dementia and alzheimer's. There is a few articles on the web about Duane's drinking. It wasn't until the late 90's early 2000's that dementia began to set in and became obvious.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by HomicideHenry »

http://mcrecord.com/2012/02/12/hall-of- ... est-fight/

^^^Article on his progressive dementia

When I tried to interview him last year, his wife informed me he was getting worse and that he went to a daycare center while she had to work. Saint Otto's is mentioned in this article, for his care needs. I know it isn't usually the sentiment or care of a forum, but maybe one day the BoxRec posters of the past ought to send him a plaque or something, for all the memories. Regardless how we view him as a boxer, he made quite an impact on us all, else we still wouldnt be talking about him today. Hell, I would argue he comes up more reguarly than Gerry Cooney on this forum.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Broomhall »

Nile4000 wrote:If Teofilo had to face Vysotsky in the 1976 Olympics in Montreal, the luster would wear off quite a bit in how most percieve him in the boxing community.
Quite possibly, but "IF" can apply to every boxers career. It didnt happen and Stevenson deserves his place in history. I am still not sure of your description of Stevenson as "soft"
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by L.A. kidd »

HomicideHenry wrote:
L.A. kidd wrote:bobick was such a disappointment in the Norton fight, and the tate fight, im wondering if he didn't

have oncoming dementia even then. he looked like a robot, he did the same thing both times, couldn't

get out of the way of punches.
Personally, I think alot of Duane's dementia was a result of many years of drinking and drug abuse in the years that followed his boxing career. I'm sure the shots from all those fighters didnt help matters--- but the truth is, alcoholism is also a triggering factor in dementia and alzheimer's. There is a few articles on the web about Duane's drinking. It wasn't until the late 90's early 2000's that dementia began to set in and became obvious.

homicide, norton looked like he was going kill him. he really took some shots to the head.

likewise tate used him like a punching bag. he put up no resistance at all in either fight. leading me to believe

that he was seriously injured in the Norton fight or his brain was damaged before the Norton fight.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Nile4000 »

Broomhall wrote:
Nile4000 wrote:If Teofilo had to face Vysotsky in the 1976 Olympics in Montreal, the luster would wear off quite a bit in how most percieve him in the boxing community.
Quite possibly, but "IF" can apply to every boxers career. It didnt happen and Stevenson deserves his place in history. I am still not sure of your description of Stevenson as "soft"
Put it this way, even Duran knew he had no business being in the ring with a certain fighter.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Broomhall »

Nile4000 wrote:
Broomhall wrote:
Nile4000 wrote:If Teofilo had to face Vysotsky in the 1976 Olympics in Montreal, the luster would wear off quite a bit in how most percieve him in the boxing community.
Quite possibly, but "IF" can apply to every boxers career. It didnt happen and Stevenson deserves his place in history. I am still not sure of your description of Stevenson as "soft"
Put it this way, even Duran knew he had no business being in the ring with a certain fighter.

So now Roberto Duran was afraid of fighting Vysotsky? I geuss he must have been "soft" as well.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Nile4000 »

No, a certain individual asked Duran what did he think of Stevenson fighting a certain fighter, and Duran said something that was in effect negative to Stevenson.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Caractacus »

Nile4000 wrote:Dokes was a real man, and Stevenson was lucky that Dokes didn't have to fight him again in the ring, or even in the streets, where Dokes would've killed him.[/color]
I read were it took five police officers to subdue Mr. Dokes when he resisted arrest in his North Las Vegas
Home back in September 1986.
All they found was 8 ounces of cocaine tho hidden in a secret place in a wall.
BTW The house he owned in North Las Vegas is still on the market.
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Nile4000 »

Caractacus wrote:
Nile4000 wrote:Dokes was a real man, and Stevenson was lucky that Dokes didn't have to fight him again in the ring, or even in the streets, where Dokes would've killed him.[/color]
I read were it took five police officers to subdue Mr. Dokes when he resisted arrest in his North Las Vegas
Home back in September 1986.
All they found was 8 ounces of cocaine tho hidden in a secret place in a wall.
BTW The house he owned in North Las Vegas is still on the market.
I would love to see that house, he definitely was a character outside the ring, LOL!!!
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Caractacus »

Michael Dokes lived in a modest house.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4300- ... 7046_zpid/
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Re: Duane Bobick vs John Tate

Post by Nile4000 »

Caractacus wrote:Michael Dokes lived in a modest house.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4300- ... 7046_zpid/
I wished I had that house.Not bad looking, considering all the crap Dokes must have dealt in.
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