ingemar johannsen vs rocky marciano 1959.

[L.A. kidd]

in many interviews rocky Marciano said the only time he felt like coming back in the ring, was when johanssen took the title

away from Floyd Patterson. he said he tried to train but, it just wasn't there anymore. and he abandoned the idea. what if they

would have met? rock was out of the ring over 2/1/2 years, and was having back trouble. I would go Marciano, however

because of his inactivity, it might not have been easy. still, I'll take rocky by a ko in the 5th round.

[witherspoon]

But surely, if Rocky himself felt that he 'didn't have it anymore', he abandoned the idea of a comeback because he didn't think that he could beat Johanssen at that stage?

[Syntax Error]

Prime against Prime, Marciano takes it, but in 1959, with rust in-situ & back problems hampering him, I'd take Ingo by decision.

[Crease]

I thin that Marciano would have KO'd him. It would have been a brawl and that would have played in to The Rock's hands.

[Bodyshot3]

Might have got interesting if Marciano had gone straight for the title and Ingemar....but with a couple of tune-up fights under his belt, just to get his timing right and live like a pro again, I'd go for Marciano. Even if all that famous energy and power had only partially returned I think he'd bring too much heat to the ring for Ingemar.

Johannsen gets slated as a 'lucky champion' a good deal which I think his unfair, he beat some decent men just to earn his shot at Floyd. But faced by The Rock with some rounds under his belt I think the difference between an ATG and a good-ish heavyweight champion would become apparent.

[HomicideHenry]

I recall on "The Main Event" Marciano was asked directly, if he made a comeback, how long would it take for him to get back into his old fighting condition. He said, without hesitation, "Eight months." There is alot of talk and debate over why he didn't come back--- the most told story is how he attempted to train, and this lasted three months, but his body simply wouldn't respond anymore and he gave up. I think the true story is a bit more different---- that he was attempting the comeback, was in negotiations, and D'Amato blocked the contract so that Patterson could rematch Ingemar. When Ingo lost, the "draw" for a comeback, was no longer there. Negotiations were restarted, again, on the possibility of Marciano facing Ingo, if he was capable of beating Patterson in the rubber match. Unfortunately, he wasnt able to, and Marciano never did make a comeback.

I think, had he used "champion emeritus" and came back to fight Johansson... he would of had issues for the first few rounds... the rust and the inactivity, would show... However, I think Johansson would of respected Marciano maybe too much, and would of either been too sloppy, or too cautious. Both things, would of been mistakes against The Rock. I figure, Marciano around the 6th or 7th stanza would find his niche and get Ingo in the 10th.

[L.A. kidd]

I didn't know about the contract talks, but rock did say he tried to come back, I just could never figure why he didn't fight Patterson.

he would have koed Floyd easily, no question. and I think he would have koed ingo too. did he quit to early?

[orbtastic]

They say the last thing you lose is your punch and I don't think Ingo was particularly hard to hit.

The question for me here is, could The Rock take Ingo's Toonder? I think so.

[Caractacus]

Personally I dont think it would have been a good idea for The Rock to comeback
for a title fight with Ingemar Johansson.
Mainly because of the later critisim was that maybe he retired in the first place
was to avoid fighting Floyd Patterson.

[HomicideHenry]

I didn't know about the contract talks, but rock did say he tried to come back, I just could never figure why he didn't fight Patterson.

he would have koed Floyd easily, no question. and I think he would have koed ingo too. did he quit to early?

Easily? Come on. This is boxing. Nothing comes easy. Though I will say I do believe Marciano could have beaten Patterson. Patterson didn't become a 'near great' or 'great' fighter until after his title reign (imho) as he fought superior opposition, etc.

As for why he retired, alot of people push the back injury story, but truth was Marciano battled back issues since the beginning of his career. So I don't believe it was that, because he learned to deal with it and learned how to be a success despite it. The reason was, from my understanding, that Marciano found out that Al Weil took a huge chunk out of his purse for the Cockell fight--- and it wasn't really the first time that Weil had done this. It was the last straw for Marciano, who was obsessed with winding up broke. Marciano figured, if he retired, he could wait out two years--- which was what was left on his contract to Weil--- then come back, be his own free agent, make his own deals, etc.

Fact of business, when he fought Moore it was the highest payday of his career--- $400,000 plus or minus--- and when he was in negotiations to fight Johansson, it is said he was being offered $2,000,000 to come back. This is significantly higher, and it would of all been Rocky's. The incentive was there--- especially for a man who was so paranoid to end up like his father did. But, alas, D'Amato blocked the match with Johansson, because D'Amato feared that if Marciano won, Patterson would never get close to the title again. But, for my money, I don't think Marciano's "comeback" would of been a long one. Rocky was very smart and cunning in his own right, and was always thinking of legacy and importance--- if he came back, and won the title again, he would of retired again at 50-0. Being the only undefeated heavyweight champion in history, was more important to him than anything else.

Personally I dont think it would have been a good idea for The Rock to comeback
for a title fight with Ingemar Johansson.
Mainly because of the later critisim was that maybe he retired in the first place
was to avoid fighting Floyd Patterson.

The thing with me is, Patterson only had 2 fights as a heavyweight (I think) by the time Marciano announced his retirement. He was considered nothing more than a light heavyweight really. The criticism may of come later, when Patterson and D'Amato was running a monopoly on the division and people got sick of them taking the easy road, and hoped Marciano would come back--- and when he didn't, people criticized Marciano for not 'saving' the division.

[L.A. kidd]

homicide.... you make some very good observations especialy about rocky, and weil, weil was a very greedy and vulgar man, rock

knew without weil he would never get the money fights. while it may have been good business for D'Amato to block a match with

with johansen and rocky, it did boxing no help at all by protecting Patterson and never letting him fight anybody. he even fought an amateur [ pete rademacher ] Floyd pattersons reign as heavyweight champion, is deeply flawed. his opponets were patsys

it's a shame rocky and ingo never met. D'Amato was indeed a shameful manager.

[HomicideHenry]

homicide.... you make some very good observations especialy about rocky, and weil, weil was a very greedy and vulgar man, rock

knew without weil he would never get the money fights. while it may have been good business for D'Amato to block a match with

with johansen and rocky, it did boxing no help at all by protecting Patterson and never letting him fight anybody. he even fought an amateur [ pete rademacher ] Floyd pattersons reign as heavyweight champion, is deeply flawed. his opponets were patsys

it's a shame rocky and ingo never met. D'Amato was indeed a shameful manager.

Shameful... maybe... but D'Amato was probably the most passionate manager in history.

He did everything and more, to ensure his fighter kept winning, remained healthy, and made money.

While that didnt do much for the division's credability, he did Patterson more than a favor by toppling the IBC, who otherwise would of forced Patterson into tough matches and probably never would of won the title twice, etc.

[Caractacus]

Bump.