Heavyweight title to remain fragmented?

[Freedom]

Forget about the heavyweights, still lots of great fights out there.

[stevedoc]

wladimir is the champ no matter what the belts say...

[Lackeos]

The implications of this is the potential for the heavyweight championship to remain fragmented should Deontay Wilder capture the WBC crown from Bermane Stiverne, because the American is an Al Haymon fighter and they don't have their fights televised by HBO!

That's fine, because Deontay's hype won't help him in the ring against Stiverne, so Deontay will not ever possess that belt.

[cold187]

dont worry, stiverne will beat wilder, if not stiverne, then jennings!!!

[Syntax Error]

wladimir is the champ no matter what the belts say...

Amen.

Forget about the crazy alphabet organisations & their stupid belts; Wladimir Klitschko is THE heavyweight champion of the world & until someone beats him, or he retires, it will remain the case.

Besides, there are so many belts out there; how many does a fighter have to annex to be officially declared as an Undisputed champion?

[Andrew]

I don't mind as this makes the Tyson fury fight more realistic.

Fury v Wlad would be perfect for America :) :P

[Zhuge]

ESPN are reporting that Wladimir Klitschko has signed a three-fight contract to have his contests aired by HBO, starting with the Pulev bout.

The implications of this is the potential for the heavyweight championship to remain fragmented should Deontay Wilder capture the WBC crown from Bermane Stiverne, because the American is an Al Haymon fighter and they don't have their fights televised by HBO!

I don't think you have to be too concerned because it's unlikely Wilder beats Stiverne, unless the Canadian takes him lightly.

[PokerRob]

HBO has started doin business again with Golden Boy, Al Haymon has a lot of fighters contracted to him who also have promotional contracts with Golden Boy... Is there not a chance HBO will decide to do business with Haymon in the future?

[ikorolev]

If Haymon disallows Wilder to fight Klitchko, Wilder should sue him and leave him. That POS should not be allowed to manage boxers.

[PokerRob]

HBO has started doin business again with Golden Boy, Al Haymon has a lot of fighters contracted to him who also have promotional contracts with Golden Boy... Is there not a chance HBO will decide to do business with Haymon in the future?

Part of the reason why Golden Boy Promotions re-established a working relationship with Top Rank and HBO, is due to the fact that they now have an extremely limited roster of fighters (that are not controlled by Al Haymon).

Bob Arum, Kathy Duva and I also believe that Oscar De La Hoya have all accused Al Haymon of stealing GBP fighters, whilst the cross-dressing Golden Boy was in rehab.

Most of the GBP stable of fighters are either on a fight-by-fight contract, they have no contract or their contract is due to expire quite soon. And regardless the nature of the contract, Al Haymon directly controls the fighters and can “advise” them to turn down superficially good opportunities.

So in simple terms, Al Haymon seems reluctant to do business with Top Rank or HBO, which means that his fighters won’t be allowed to “cross the street”.

Im aware that Haymon does not have a good relationship with Bob Aru (Top Rank), but can you provide me with a source to show he doesnt have a good relationship with HBO?

[PokerRob]

If Haymon disallows Wilder to fight Klitchko, Wilder should sue him and leave him. That POS should not be allowed to manage boxers.

Exactly, I see no reason why we couldnt have Wilder vs Klitscho on HBO and promoted by K2 Promotions, it would have nothing to do with Top Rank!

[klitoris]

I'm not sure why Wilder and Haymon would reject the biggest payday of Deontay's career. He wouldn't be able to make up that money in 10 bouts fighting bums. But then again Haymon is probably a UFC agent trying to destroy boxing, so I wouldn't put it past him.

[PokerRob]

If Haymon disallows Wilder to fight Klitchko, Wilder should sue him and leave him. That POS should not be allowed to manage boxers.

Here’s an illustration of the sort of power that Al Haymon holds over his fighters…

• According to ESPN, Roc Nation Sports offered Deontay Wilder and his manager Jay Deas $2M for a fight with Bermane Stiverne as part of a five-fight deal. Apparently Al Haymon refused to consider the offer.

• Roc Nation then offered Keith Thurman a three-fight contract worth $6 million. Thurman would have gotten a $2 million advance against the total package. The offer was declined by the Al Haymon managed fighter.

• Peter Quillin dumped his WBO world title after Roc Nation won a fight purse that would have earned him a career high of $1.4m ($500K more than GGG's best purse). It is believed that Quillin dropping the title was a move orchestrated by Haymon to keep Jay Z out of his business.

Yes, he also has bad relations with Roc Nation (something to do with Beyonce) as well as Top Rank... But to the best of my knowledge, its only these two Promotional Outfits that he refuses to do business with (and perhaps vice versa in Top Ranks case), even though fighters adviced/mamaged by Haymon has fought on Top Rank bills in the past!

[PokerRob]

If Haymon disallows Wilder to fight Klitchko, Wilder should sue him and leave him. That POS should not be allowed to manage boxers.

Exactly, I see no reason why we couldnt have Wilder vs Klitscho on HBO and promoted by K2 Promotions, it would have nothing to do with Top Rank!

When was the last time an Al Haymon managed fighter fought on a fight card that was televised by HBO, where the contest didn’t involve an anonymous boxer where the bout was the direct result of a purse bid? It has to be before the proverbial “Cold War” began?

Your 100% right there my friend, it certainly was before the so called 'Cold War'... But time are getting exciting, apparently its over now, and Golden Boy are promoting on it again...

What Im trying to say is that I think (however I admit Im not sure) the reason why none of Haymons fighters fought on HBO was not because of HBO but because of Arum!

[PokerRob]

Here’s an illustration of the sort of power that Al Haymon holds over his fighters…

• According to ESPN, Roc Nation Sports offered Deontay Wilder and his manager Jay Deas $2M for a fight with Bermane Stiverne as part of a five-fight deal. Apparently Al Haymon refused to consider the offer.

• Roc Nation then offered Keith Thurman a three-fight contract worth $6 million. Thurman would have gotten a $2 million advance against the total package. The offer was declined by the Al Haymon managed fighter.

• Peter Quillin dumped his WBO world title after Roc Nation won a fight purse that would have earned him a career high of $1.4m ($500K more than GGG's best purse). It is believed that Quillin dropping the title was a move orchestrated by Haymon to keep Jay Z out of his business.

Yes, he also has bad relations with Roc Nation (something to do with Beyonce) as well as Top Rank... But to the best of my knowledge, its only these two Promotional Outfits that he refuses to do business with (and perhaps vice versa in Top Ranks case), even though fighters adviced/mamaged by Haymon has fought on Top Rank bills in the past!

Kathy Duva (Main Events) sued Al Haymon recently and accused him of performing all sorts of dodgy shenanigans that presented a very real risk to his empire.

Yeah totally forgot about that one sorry... I guess the question is then...

If Al Haymon does not have working relationships with Arum (Top Rank), Duva (Main Events), Roc Nation (Jay z) and potentially even Oscar De La Hoya (Golden Boy) now, (something to do with not having his fighters sign promotional contracts with them as he wants them to run out), then who is he going to get to promote his fighters???

Richard Schaefer??? It was him who did the dirty behind Oscars back in regards to Haymons fighters and Golden Boy contracts!

Floyd Mayweather??? They do have a good working relationship, a strong promotional name (Mayweather Promotions), loads of money between them, and you can rest assured Haymon would be pulling the strings!

Himself??? Seems like no-one cares about the Muhammed Ali act when it comes to Haymon!

Or other??? Haymon probably has the power to make some small time promoter very powerful indeed!

Point is, if any of the 4 options above could secure a television deal with HBO (and I see no reason why not) then we could very well see Klitscho vs Wilder on HBO and co-promoted by K2 Promotions and any of the 4 promotional options I mentioned above!

[PokerRob]

Al Haymon has recently signed a contract with NBC Sports, which commences in January, which Kathy Duva (Main Events) believes that:

"He's promised NBC that' he's going to take his fighters off premium cable ... He's going to put Showtime and HBO out of the puzzle… And he's going to do away with pay per view and create an over-the-top network. He's got the fighters and he's presumably got the money. I wish him the best and I totally and sincerely mean it. ... I pray he doesn't blow it, because if he does, we're not going back to (network TV for a while.) If he's successful, all the networks will want boxing."

Therefore, it seems that Haymon’s agenda is to ensure NBC Sports will be televising his fighters fights, rather than have any involvement with HBO.

I too have read this, and although a possibility, I just dont see him completely shutting out Showtime and HBO!

If he does, and his contract with NBC commences in Jan, it will be interesting to see what will happens in regards to Wilder vs Stivern! Which is currently being penciled in for Jan 17th!

[PokerRob]

Al Haymon has recently signed a contract with NBC Sports, which commences in January, which Kathy Duva (Main Events) believes that:

"He's promised NBC that' he's going to take his fighters off premium cable ... He's going to put Showtime and HBO out of the puzzle… And he's going to do away with pay per view and create an over-the-top network. He's got the fighters and he's presumably got the money. I wish him the best and I totally and sincerely mean it. ... I pray he doesn't blow it, because if he does, we're not going back to (network TV for a while.) If he's successful, all the networks will want boxing."

Therefore, it seems that Haymon’s agenda is to ensure NBC Sports will be televising his fighters fights, rather than have any involvement with HBO.

I too have read this, and although a possibility, I just dont see him completely shutting out Showtime and HBO!

If he does, and his contract with NBC commences in Jan, it will be interesting to see what will happens in regards to Wilder vs Stivern! Which is currently being penciled in for Jan 17th!

Al doesn’t work with HBO… or is it a case of HBO doesn’t work with Al Haymon (since they initially ended their working relationship with him due to GBP jumping ship to Showtime)?

Al Haymon does work with Golden Boy, but only if the fights are televised by Showtime. I believe the working-relationship is frosty.

Al Haymon does have an excellent relationship with Yvon Michel, the promoter of the GYM Group who look after Stevenson and co-promote Jean Pascal. Haymon also has fighters signed with Goossen Tutor Promotions & DiBella Entertainment.

In regards to Wilder vs. Stiverne… Bermane is a Don King fighter and his fighters are allowed to fight on any TV network. Deontay is an Al Haymon fighter promoted by GBP, which means his fights can be aired by any TV network not named HBO.

It’s interesting that there’s no official announcement from Golden Boy about the date for the Wilder vs. Stiverne fight, which may have something to do with Haymon’s deal with NBC (as it would be a big fight for that network).

I don’t believe that Haymon can shut-out Showtime completely, as fighters like Floyd Mayweather still hold contracts with them. That being said, I see no reason for Haymon to start doing business with HBO though, since he hasn’t worked with them for such a long time.

The bottom line is this:
Al Haymon + HBO or Top Rank or Roc Nation or Main Events (TBC) = No fight

After doing a bit of research and getting down to the nuts and bolts of things, it would appear that HBO ceased relationships with Golden Boy due to them not being pleased with Mayweather jumping ship to Showtime... Which would appear to be mainly down to Haymon!

"Translation: HBO is very angry about the defection of Mayweather to Showtime last month but is much more outraged by how it went down under Haymon’s autocratic rule, which Golden Boy head Richard Schaefer began to mimic in other dealings with HBO."

Source = http://www.examiner.com/article/hbo-say ... -al-haymon

So yeah, if Klitschko has a 3 fight promotional deal with HBO, and Wilder remains loyal to Haymon, it would appear unlikley that we will see this fight being made in Klitschko's next 3 fights! Unless both parties (Haymon and HBO) agree the fight is too big to get in the way of political differences, or if it goes to purse bids?!?

Thats a point actually... If Klitschko vs Wilder goes to purse bids, and Golden Boy wins the bid, Golden Boy would then probably decide to televise the fight on Showtime (as Wilder is a Haymon fighter). Would this then revoke (or temporarily revoke) Klitschko's television deal with HBO and allow him to fight Wilder on Showtime (probably on US soil)???

[PokerRob]

After doing a bit of research and getting down to the nuts and bolts of things, it would appear that HBO ceased relationships with Golden Boy due to them not being pleased with Mayweather jumping ship to Showtime... Which would appear to be mainly down to Haymon!

"Translation: HBO is very angry about the defection of Mayweather to Showtime last month but is much more outraged by how it went down under Haymon’s autocratic rule, which Golden Boy head Richard Schaefer began to mimic in other dealings with HBO."

Source = http://www.examiner.com/article/hbo-say ... -al-haymon

So yeah, if Klitschko has a 3 fight promotional deal with HBO, and Wilder remains loyal to Haymon, it would appear unlikley that we will see this fight being made in Klitschko's next 3 fights! Unless both parties (Haymon and HBO) agree the fight is too big to get in the way of political differences, or if it goes to purse bids?!?

Thats a point actually... If Klitschko vs Wilder goes to purse bids, and Golden Boy wins the bid, Golden Boy would then probably decide to televise the fight on Showtime (as Wilder is a Haymon fighter). Would this then revoke (or temporarily revoke) Klitschko's television deal with HBO and allow him to fight Wilder on Showtime (probably on US soil)???

Why would Klitschko versus Wilder go to purse bids? If Deontay challenges Stiverne and captures the WBC title, why would the other organisations make him the mandatory challenger for Klitschko's belts (or vice versa)?

Nothing would revoke Klitschko's contract with HBO, so we shouldn't expect him to see him become available to "potentially" have his fights televised by Showtime until he has competed in three contests.

One of the ways that Klitschko would be able to fight Deontay Wilder, is if Showtime & Al Haymon can agree to joint promote & televise the fight with HBO. The last and only time that happened was for the Tyson-Lewis super fight... and no contest has been deemed big enough (yet) to provide a compelling financially-lucrative reason to motivate Showtime & HBO to work together again.

The only alternative is for Haymon and Showtime to allow Wilder to "cross the street" out of the kindness of their own heart (or receive a one-off payment from HBO and/or K2), which I cannot see happening.

Simply put, we aren't going to see a Klitschko-Wilder fight for quite some time!

Yeah, I was speaking hypothetically in regards to the purse bids. Still, Im curious as to what would happen if Wilder vs Klitschko did go to purse bids (hypothetically speaking of course) and Golden Boy/Haymon won the purse bids and decided to televise it on Showtime. What then would happen in regards to Klitschko's 3 fight deal with HBO? Would he be able to defer from his 3 fight contract with HBO or have to vacate his titles?

Anyway, I guess the 3 fights on HBO could likely be...

1. Pulev
2. Glazkov (my guess is he will choose a voluntary before the Fury vs Chisora winner and Glazkov will be somewhat promotable as he is undefeated, former Olympic broze medalist and Ukranian. Plus he's cannon fodder for Klitschko)
3. Fury

On an interesting side note, I dont believe Wilder is under contract with Showtime anymore, only Haymon.

Source - http://thaboxingvoice.com/is-haymon-pre ... ning/33379

[davie]

According to ESPN, Roc Nation Sports is on the verge of finalizing a deal to buy Gary Shaw Productions… and one of the biggest names affiliated to that promotion is Bryant Jennings.

Therefore, assuming that Deontay Wilder can capture the WBC version of the heavyweight championship from Bermane Stiverne next month, which is far from certain, there is no possibility whatsoever that he will be in a position to challenge the winner of the Klitschko-Jennings fight, because of Haymon’s refusal to work with either HBO (Wladimir) or Roc Nation (Bryant).

Why don't boxing promoters just fornicate off and die!!!!!

[tiny_acres]

According to ESPN, Roc Nation Sports is on the verge of finalizing a deal to buy Gary Shaw Productions… and one of the biggest names affiliated to that promotion is Bryant Jennings.

Therefore, assuming that Deontay Wilder can capture the WBC version of the heavyweight championship from Bermane Stiverne next month, which is far from certain, there is no possibility whatsoever that he will be in a position to challenge the winner of the Klitschko-Jennings fight, because of Haymon’s refusal to work with either HBO (Wladimir) or Roc Nation (Bryant).

Why don't boxing promoters just eff off and die!!!!!

They are a necessary evil

[davie]

According to ESPN, Roc Nation Sports is on the verge of finalizing a deal to buy Gary Shaw Productions… and one of the biggest names affiliated to that promotion is Bryant Jennings.

Therefore, assuming that Deontay Wilder can capture the WBC version of the heavyweight championship from Bermane Stiverne next month, which is far from certain, there is no possibility whatsoever that he will be in a position to challenge the winner of the Klitschko-Jennings fight, because of Haymon’s refusal to work with either HBO (Wladimir) or Roc Nation (Bryant).

Why don't boxing promoters just eff off and die!!!!!

They are a necessary evil

It isn't necessary that they are all evil though

I mean why can't they all stop being pudenda?

[Blodhemn]

Pretty sure the title belongs to Wlad.

[davie]

Pretty sure the title belongs to Wlad.

That's a given Blodhemn.

But it would just be nice, for once, to have all 4 belts in the possession of the unquestionable top man in the division.
Just stick Stiverne in the ring with Wlad and be done with it.

[zorndeslammes]

Pretty sure the title belongs to Wlad.

That's a given Blodhemn.

But it would just be nice, for once, to have all 4 belts in the possession of the unquestionable top man in the division.
Just stick Stiverne in the ring with Wlad and be done with it.

And then we'll have Regular, Interim, and Silver world champs. I think the WBA has 1-2 other champs than Wlad. There's never going to be a time where Wlad will hold all the titles. No one ever will.

[zorndeslammes]

The only person to hold all 4 belts at once in a division was Bernard Hopkins after the De La Hoya fight. That lasted exactly two bouts. I don't need anyone to hold all 4 belts simultaneously. We just had a period of time in the heavyweights where no one was the WBC champ and the other belts all belonged to Wladimir. Seems more than enough to me.