Mike Tyson Vs George Chuvalo

[BoxBuzz]

Based on the conversation going on in another thread, this hypothetical became relevant to my way of thinking.


Would this be the guy who could get Chuvalo out of there?


Based on some of the comments, I guess he is.

[HomicideHenry]

I forget who said it, and how exactly it was said, but believe it was Marciano... and he said of Chuvalo... that if all fights were twenty rounds or more, he would of been heavywweight champion of the world... (then again, one could say the same for alot of guys with similar attributes like Tex Cobb or Chuck Wepner).

Sure Chuvalo was tough and very well conditioned man... but in all honesty... I never quite understand the mystique on the man in some circles--- he was exciting to watch, yes, but I don't care what he says... he was NOT robbed against Terrell and he wasnt robbed against Patterson either.

Tyson... for all intents and purposes... would of been the most talented, and powerful fighter that Chuvalo would of ever faced... (outside of Frazier, Ali and Foreman)... for me personally, I think when Frazier stopped Chuvalo on TKO he did it to a near prime Chuvalo... and if Frazier could do it, I could only suspect that Tyson would have also and probably in the same amount of time or sooner... too fast of hands.

[witherspoon]

I forget who said it, and how exactly it was said, but believe it was Marciano... and he said of Chuvalo... that if all fights were twenty rounds or more, he would of been heavywweight champion of the world... (then again, one could say the same for alot of guys with similar attributes like Tex Cobb or Chuck Wepner).

Sure Chuvalo was tough and very well conditioned man... but in all honesty... I never quite understand the mystique on the man in some circles--- he was exciting to watch, yes, but I don't care what he says... he was NOT robbed against Terrell and he wasnt robbed against Patterson either.

Tyson... for all intents and purposes... would of been the most talented, and powerful fighter that Chuvalo would of ever faced... (outside of Frazier, Ali and Foreman)... for me personally, I think when Frazier stopped Chuvalo on TKO he did it to a near prime Chuvalo... and if Frazier could do it, I could only suspect that Tyson would have also and probably in the same amount of time or sooner... too fast of hands.

I agree with this, I would pick Tyson at his best to finish Chuvalo inside the distance.
I have not seen Chuvalo's fight with Ernie Terrell, but I agree also that Patterson beat him clearly.
I would add that he was gifted a win against Jerry Quarry. I thought that was a ridiculous early stoppage and Quarry didn't even look hurt.

And after adding to Homicide's criticisms, I feel obliged to express my utmost respect for George Chuvalo as a man and as a fighter. He came across really well in a documentary made around interviews of Ali opponents.

You have to feel for the guy, he had a much tougher life outside the ropes than he did inside. And that's saying something.

[Flump]

I forget who said it, and how exactly it was said, but believe it was Marciano... and he said of Chuvalo... that if all fights were twenty rounds or more, he would of been heavywweight champion of the world... (then again, one could say the same for alot of guys with similar attributes like Tex Cobb or Chuck Wepner).

Sure Chuvalo was tough and very well conditioned man... but in all honesty... I never quite understand the mystique on the man in some circles--- he was exciting to watch, yes, but I don't care what he says... he was NOT robbed against Terrell and he wasnt robbed against Patterson either.

Tyson... for all intents and purposes... would of been the most talented, and powerful fighter that Chuvalo would of ever faced... (outside of Frazier, Ali and Foreman)... for me personally, I think when Frazier stopped Chuvalo on TKO he did it to a near prime Chuvalo... and if Frazier could do it, I could only suspect that Tyson would have also and probably in the same amount of time or sooner... too fast of hands.

I agree with this, I would pick Tyson at his best to finish Chuvalo inside the distance.
I have not seen Chuvalo's fight with Ernie Terrell, but I agree also that Patterson beat him clearly.
I would add that he was gifted a win against Jerry Quarry. I thought that was a ridiculous early stoppage and Quarry didn't even look hurt.

And after adding to Homicide's criticisms, I feel obliged to express my utmost respect for George Chuvalo as a man and as a fighter. He came across really well in a documentary made around interviews of Ali opponents.

You have to feel for the guy, he had a much tougher life outside the ropes than he did inside. And that's saying something.

Agree with the rest of your post but it was Quarry's own fault he lost to Chuvalo, he completely misjudges the count. Seems the shot to the top of the head messed him up, though he was in control of the fight at the time.

[JC]

Based on the conversation going on in another thread, this hypothetical became relevant to my way of thinking.


Would this be the guy who could get Chuvalo out of there?


Based on some of the comments, I guess he is.

By 'out of there' do you mean down for a ten count? Because Frazier and Foreman both stopped him.

I would picture Tyson unloading punishment with the ref stepping in in a similar way to the Foreman fight as the most likely outcome.

[Woller]

Quarry was not stopped too early against Chuvalo - He was KNOCKED OUT, Count of 10.

[yancey]

I forget who said it, and how exactly it was said, but believe it was Marciano... and he said of Chuvalo... that if all fights were twenty rounds or more, he would of been heavywweight champion of the world... (then again, one could say the same for alot of guys with similar attributes like Tex Cobb or Chuck Wepner).

Sure Chuvalo was tough and very well conditioned man... but in all honesty... I never quite understand the mystique on the man in some circles--- he was exciting to watch, yes, but I don't care what he says... he was NOT robbed against Terrell and he wasnt robbed against Patterson either.

Tyson... for all intents and purposes... would of been the most talented, and powerful fighter that Chuvalo would of ever faced... (outside of Frazier, Ali and Foreman)... for me personally, I think when Frazier stopped Chuvalo on TKO he did it to a near prime Chuvalo... and if Frazier could do it, I could only suspect that Tyson would have also and probably in the same amount of time or sooner... too fast of hands.

Wepner and Cobb don't belong in the same conversation with Chuvalo. He was more accomplished and more of a bonafide contender on the heavyweight scene than those two.

As to Tyson-Chuvalo, I reckon Mike would pound him like Frazier and Foreman did. But with the Tyson ticker issue, who really knows. Maybe it would become a mauling contest and go the distance.

[witherspoon]

I seem to have got my facts wrong, I forgot that Quarry was counted out. But I definitely had some kind of objection to the stoppage, I'm pretty sure I thought that the ref counted real fast.
I will have to watch the fight again.

[BoxBuzz]

Yep, Quarry looked to be clear headed, in control of the fight, and just misjudged the count terribly. Was it because he was genuinely rattled? He says no. But he owns it lock stock and barrel. What else but a good rattling takes you that far off your game?

[HomicideHenry]

Wepner and Cobb don't belong in the same conversation with Chuvalo. He was more accomplished and more of a bonafide contender on the heavyweight scene than those two.

As to Tyson-Chuvalo, I reckon Mike would pound him like Frazier and Foreman did. But with the Tyson ticker issue, who really knows. Maybe it would become a mauling contest and go the distance.

I will agree that Chuvalo was all-around a better boxer and (on the ocassion) brawler than both the before mentioned fighters, however it is Chuvalo's ability to absorb punishment that is pushed into the forefront as his greatest attribute. I believe it was Ali who said, "George Chuvalo's head is the hardest thing I've ever punched." And it reminds me of another quote Ali said (of Wepner) that, "No man can go fifteen rounds like he just did." So in that sense, yes.

I will argue that Wepner, nor Cobb, was as bad as people later made them out to be. Sure Chuck was known as the "Bayonne Bleeder"... but he was a legit top ten contender, who earned his title shot. He was a well accomplished amateur with many national titles before turning pro. He wasn't the "bum" that people made him out to be. Ali made alot of guys look like crap or even horrible. It's the name, and the Rocky franchise, that solidified this image of Wepner that we have today that he was the "ultimate underdog", etc. He wasn't some unprotected, completely limited, heavyweight. He beat some good guys on the way up.

Same goes for Cobb--- the only problem with Tex was he had no power in his punches. Therefore he didn't look effective in the ring against Norton and Dokes and others. But he wasn't chopped liver either. For a man with NO amateur background to speak of, and inside of fifteen fights already facing such men as those listed previously, speaks volumes. He, too, is an often marginalized and criticized fighter. But like Chuvalo, and Wepner, is best known for his greatest attribute--- his ability to take a punch.

[Cap]

Watch some of Chuvalo's fights on Youtube if you've never seen him. He had real skills not just toughness, and he could bang to the body like nobody's business. Really used to tick me off when Don Dunphy would disparage George's boxing, ignoring a really nice jab and terrific left hook. I still think that he got robbed against Patterson, but it was close enough and Patterson was the sentimental favourite and it was New York. When a decision is rendered there's always the chance that the judges just like one guy's style more than the other. Judges still ignore body punching when scoring fights today.

Oh, yeah. Mike "The Bully" Tyson. Chuvalo would not have been intimidated by Tyson the way others seemed to be. When he doesn't fall down in one or two rounds, Tyson will panic. He might land a lucky punch the way Frazier did (Breaking George's eye socket) but most likely it goes the distance with the expected result from the usual suspects.

[SenorPipino]

Watch some of Chuvalo's fights on Youtube if you've never seen him. He had real skills not just toughness, and he could bang to the body like nobody's business. Really used to tick me off when Don Dunphy would disparage George's boxing, ignoring a really nice jab and terrific left hook. I still think that he got robbed against Patterson, but it was close enough and Patterson was the sentimental favourite and it was New York. When a decision is rendered there's always the chance that the judges just like one guy's style more than the other. Judges still ignore body punching when scoring fights today.

Oh, yeah. Mike "The Bully" Tyson. Chuvalo would not have been intimidated by Tyson the way others seemed to be. When he doesn't fall down in one or two rounds, Tyson will panic. He might land a lucky punch the way Frazier did (Breaking George's eye socket) but most likely it goes the distance with the expected result from the usual suspects.

If the tough Canadian survived an early beating, and the referee didn't panic at the sight of a chopped up Chuvalo, I suspect he would have given Tyson a run for his money.
Come the late rounds, Tyson would have be holding and stalling for time as the rugged Chuvalo attempted to pour it on.
But Tyson survives and his early big lead allows him to cop a close, but unanimous decision.

[Phil Titan]

Tyson was not better than many of the Boxers that Chuvalo met. Tyson is probably the most over-rated Heavyweight in History. What great Boxer did he defeat that was in their prime? If he had fought Larry Holmes in his prime I think Holmes would have emerged the victor. When Tyson was at the height of his career he ducked the two best contenders in Holyfield and Lennox Lewis. Not too mention the other good Heavyweights who boxed around the same time frame such as Riddick Bowe and Andrew Gulota who gave Bowe two horrific beatings but lost due to immeasurable stupidity. If Gulota ever could have controlled himself people would be talking about what a great Champion he was.
Tyson would never have defeated Ali or Frazier. While Frazier was smaller, at his peak he would have battered Tyson who clearly showed that once he met an opponent who wasn't intimadated by his record, hype, physique and aura, Tyson found the going extremely difficult. The best boxer that Tyson defeated was Razor Ruddock. I do believe Chuval would have likely lost to Tyson but I like Chuvalo's chances against Tyson much more than against Ali. Tyson would kind of be tailor made for Chuvalo who certainly wouldn't have been intimidated in the least. I would also heartedly agree that Chuvalo's luckiest win was against Jerry quarry who was winning that bout until the flash knockdown & lost track of the count. If they ever fought a rematch I would think Quarry would have won handily. In the Heavyweight's Golden Age of the 1960's through 1970's, the Boxer most akin to Tyson was Earnie Shavers who I think was better than Tyson. I f Tyson fought during this time he wouldn't have beaten Ali, Frazier, Quarry, Holmes or Shavers. The guys who could really punch that wouldn't be intimidated by Tyson would have all prevailed by a KO, with the exception of Ali who would have won by either a Decision or more likely a TKO on cuts. When Tyson eventually fought the best of his era he was beaten badly by both Holyfield and Lewis.

[abdelfadeeli]

People tend to think that Chuvalo was invincible because he was hard to knock down. Foreman and Frazier are the only ones to stop Chuvalo but neither has the blend of Speed and Power that Tyson has. Sure, Foreman hits harder. However, in the early rounds, he's not very fast. Frazier has greater stamina but not quite the power of Tyson. Chuvalo, as tough as he is, would not handle the Early Speed/power blend of Tyson
TYSON by KO in 4

[Syntax Error]

Tyson was not better than many of the Boxers that Chuvalo met. Tyson is probably the most over-rated Heavyweight in History. What great Boxer did he defeat that was in their prime? If he had fought Larry Holmes in his prime I think Holmes would have emerged the victor. When Tyson was at the height of his career he ducked the two best contenders in Holyfield and Lennox Lewis. Not too mention the other good Heavyweights who boxed around the same time frame such as Riddick Bowe and Andrew Gulota who gave Bowe two horrific beatings but lost due to immeasurable stupidity. If Gulota ever could have controlled himself people would be talking about what a great Champion he was.
Tyson would never have defeated Ali or Frazier. While Frazier was smaller, at his peak he would have battered Tyson who clearly showed that once he met an opponent who wasn't intimadated by his record, hype, physique and aura, Tyson found the going extremely difficult. The best boxer that Tyson defeated was Razor Ruddock. I do believe Chuval would have likely lost to Tyson but I like Chuvalo's chances against Tyson much more than against Ali. Tyson would kind of be tailor made for Chuvalo who certainly wouldn't have been intimidated in the least. I would also heartedly agree that Chuvalo's luckiest win was against Jerry quarry who was winning that bout until the flash knockdown & lost track of the count. If they ever fought a rematch I would think Quarry would have won handily. In the Heavyweight's Golden Age of the 1960's through 1970's, the Boxer most akin to Tyson was Earnie Shavers who I think was better than Tyson. I f Tyson fought during this time he wouldn't have beaten Ali, Frazier, Quarry, Holmes or Shavers. The guys who could really punch that wouldn't be intimidated by Tyson would have all prevailed by a KO, with the exception of Ali who would have won by either a Decision or more likely a TKO on cuts. When Tyson eventually fought the best of his era he was beaten badly by both Holyfield and Lewis.

I'm no apologist for Tyson, but I don't agree that he ducked Holyfield.

He signed to fight Holyfield in mid to late 1990, but got his arse handed to him by Buster Douglas, so that put paid to that.

Tyson then got back into the title picture with two one dimensional poundings of the equally one dimensional Ruddock & then signed to fight Holyfield in late 1991 & we all know what happened next.

Lewis was never in the picture at the real height of Tyson's career, although I do agree that he ducked him in 1996, as he preferred to feast on what he mistakenly thought was the carcass of Holyfield.

[cjdragon]

People tend to think that Chuvalo was invincible because he was hard to knock down. Foreman and Frazier are the only ones to stop Chuvalo but neither has the blend of Speed and Power that Tyson has. Sure, Foreman hits harder. However, in the early rounds, he's not very fast. Frazier has greater stamina but not quite the power of Tyson. Chuvalo, as tough as he is, would not handle the Early Speed/power blend of Tyson
TYSON by KO in 4

That's exactly my assessment as well.
Wow, I actually agree with you DD

[Broomhall]

Yup, I think Tyson one of the fastest combination punchers at heavyweight, I would see him doing something similar to Chuvalo that he did to Pinklon Thomas.

Utmost respect to Chuvalo, not just a great chin which to some extent you are born with, but a great fighting heart. But I just cannot see him getting through those short hooks that Tyson threw with such accuracy.

Tyson wasnt just a bully, I think wrong to write him off in this way. Yes he took the easy way out in the DQ with Holyfield but Duran also coughed it against Leonard and this is now regarded as more about frustration than cowardice. Tyson took a lot of shots against Douglas and Lewis and with the Douglas fight was still trying to get his gumsheild in at the end.

[Nile4000]

Tyson would win a decision in 12, may could have pulled out a 15 decision win, not sure where his head would be at. George might take a 15 rounder if Mike tired out.

[gilgamesh]

Even if Tyson didn't drop Chuvalo he'd batter the sh*t out of him and stop him on his feet not unlike the way Foreman did.

Tyson via TKO in 5 or 6 I'm thinking.

[Tony1244]

Frazier and Foreman got him out of there and I think Tyson would in similar fashion. Not necessarily knocked down but cornered taking punch after punch and stopped within 4 rounds.

[Tony1244]

Watch some of Chuvalo's fights on Youtube if you've never seen him. He had real skills not just toughness, and he could bang to the body like nobody's business. Really used to tick me off when Don Dunphy would disparage George's boxing, ignoring a really nice jab and terrific left hook. I still think that he got robbed against Patterson, but it was close enough and Patterson was the sentimental favourite and it was New York. When a decision is rendered there's always the chance that the judges just like one guy's style more than the other. Judges still ignore body punching when scoring fights today.

Oh, yeah. Mike "The Bully" Tyson. Chuvalo would not have been intimidated by Tyson the way others seemed to be. When he doesn't fall down in one or two rounds, Tyson will panic. He might land a lucky punch the way Frazier did (Breaking George's eye socket) but most likely it goes the distance with the expected result from the usual suspects.

I heard Don Dumphy say at least twice, "Someone taught Chuvalo how to jab," in two separate fights.

Chuvalo looked quite good in his 2nd Ali fight.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Terrible fight for George Tyson stops him by round 5tko