Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Girlfriend

Fighters are more than average horny creatures.High testosterone levels are good fuel for punching guys's lights out and making babies.Of course it takes another part(ner) to complement a fighter's will to let off steam(or something gooier).On the fisticuffs end it's usually some bloke who's had too much to drink and thinks he can whip the pro(who usually has had too much to drink)and then prospective contender finds himself flat on the floor.However, on the conjugal side it's usually some dame, drunk with the aura of a fighter's machismo, that finds herself waking up in the morning in his bed. There are terrible exceptions.Ike Ikeabuchi wasn't exactly a Casanova and I'm sure one of the Boxrec posters could start a thread listing additional beasts of the ring and the bedroom.

One relationship that has always fascinated me between starcrossed lovers is the brief encounter between Marcel Cerdan and Edith Piaf. Cerdan,the king of Europe in the boxing world,and the Little Sparrow the toast of concert halls on the Continent.Two unlikely paramours. Edith Piaf,a tiny homeless street urchin who sang in the streets of Pigalle earning a living from tips in a tin cup,discovered by chance by the night club owner Louie Leples,and the legend is born.Cerdan,the kid from Algiers,crude and rugged as his fighting style,finishing off all the competition in Europe,journeying to the States to melt the Man Of Steel Zale to win the title.

But while curiously wanting to see the famous Piaf winning over American audiences at the Club Versaille in New York,Marcel broke training and fell for the singer who couldn't fall asleep before eight in the morning. But it was a likewise passion. Edith,diminutive in stature,was a glutton for lovers. If she could have weighed in after devouring all the men in her life, instead of being known as "The Little Sparrow", her aka would have been" Madame Harpy Eagle."

It was Edith pining for Marcel that made him hop a plane early with his trainer to the U.S. so she could sate her appetite. Marcel had lost the crown to LaMotta .The Frenchman said he had injured his shoulder during the fight.Maybe it was Edith that had taken away his edge with her obsessions and that's why he couldn't answer the bell. Anyway,the plane with Marcel went to the bottom of the sea, and with his death, Edith Piaf's life went into a metaphorical free fall.This Gaelic romantic tragedy is still reminisced in France. It's the kind of story that can have so many hypothetical endings.

In a macabre sense it probably was better the way it ended. Marcel,crashing into oblivion. Edith sinking into it. For the French it makes better copy.


Edith Piaf

[HunterFikes]

I have been on here before but it has been a while. I am a friend of Jimmy Heair. He was a lightweight contender in the early 70s in California. I have a few of his fight posters but I am always looking for more. If anyone has any pictures, posters, programs, or videos they would be willing to part with please contact me. Thanks Hunter

[dagosd2000]

No More Mr. Nice Guy

Fighters are still pretty much unassuming individuals outside the ring.Today, I know there's more exposure in front of the camera,trunks that looked like they were stitched together by a Madison Avenue heavy metal sewing circle,rants against an opponent veiled with accusations of the other guy's courage and manhood. All executed with the aim towards self promotion I guess.But inside a gym the façade is stored in the locker and it's down to business. Every exercise is for the purpose of being right at the right time when that bell is rung for the start of the first round.

I saw a lot of fighters go through San Diego ,California. San Diego was like a proving ground. You might begin your career here,but the desire was to fight for the big money away from this burg. I saw fighters get out of Dodge working their way towards a title shot,maybe wearing that belt for a time,have to take it off one day,slide down the rung to contender,drop out of the rankings,and wind up stepping through the ropes again at the Coliseum.

Inside the gym, fighters cut to the chase working up a sweat to be in the best shape.You couldn't tell the loud mouths from the quiet guys. Sparring partners(which was my lot)served a useful purpose and were treated on a par with everyone else who had a job to do at the gym.

One of my first school teaching assignments was at Juvenile Hall.There, I got reacquainted with a local fighter by the name of Gilbert Baptist. He was working in the Probation Department. Gilbert was one of the happiest guys I've ever met. He wasn't a hard ass on the kids and I looked forward to working in his housing unit when I had to go there to do my teaching thing. The kids weren't on edge because Gilbert didn't needle them.A good housing unit was, more or less, a happy one. Later, when I wound up teaching the" in school suspension kids" at the high school,I met up with Gilbert again. He was still with Probation and from time to time he'd have to check up,usually ,with one of my kids.

One day Gilbert asked if I'd like to meet up with him at Murphy's Gym downtown. Gilbert had hung up the gloves for good after breaking his leg against Gerald McClellan,but said he was sparring with Terry Norris who, at that time,was headed on a collision course with Ray Leonard. Everyone in the gym knew that Terry was heating up as a fighter while Ray was struggling to stoke the flames. I put down a good bet on Terry for that fight.

It was interesting to watch Gilbert and Terry train together.They looked pretty even. They had fought against each other a couple of times in the pros.I remember one of their fights at the El Cortez Hotel. It was non stop action with Gilbert holding his own with the future champ.

But Terry Norris wasn't exactly the extrovert like Gilbert. I always thought Terry had a chip on his shoulder.He wasn't very approachable.I don't think he wanted to be bothered with people he didn't know. But he and Gilbert got along just fine. After leaving the high school I lost contact with Gilbert. I think Terry and Gilbert both still live in San Diego.

I ran into Terry Norris a few years ago at a World Boxing Hall of Fame banquet.I asked him he he still keeps touch with Gilbert Baptist. All he said was "I kicked his ass." Then out of the corner of my eye,I spotted "Gato" Gonzalez at a table with Gaspar Ortega and his wife. I thought I'd go over there for some friendly discussion.



"Terrible" Terry Norris

[dagosd2000]

Down Home

If you haven't been to Mexico for awhile,you've probably been watching the news reports of all the violence that's going on down there. Living in San Diego, where you'd think that many Americans would venture across the border more frequently,the great majority of gringos haven't gone across the line in 20 years or more. Their imaginations have gotten the best of them.They think if they go for a stroll down Revolution Boulevard something bad is going to happen to them.Well something bad might happen to someone, regardless of color or nationality, if they were to get curious about the streets of South Central L.A. or Ferguson,Missouri. It's too bad about Mexico.The system is getting worse. It's in a free fall. With the world's economy going in the tank,you can imagine what 3rd world countries are going through. Few jobs for bum pay and a political system that's on the take.Whoever's got the balls to run things is in charge regardless of right and wrong.

The last time I talked to Gaspar Ortega he said that he's never going back.They put his name on a gym in the park in the Zona Norte right next to the border. The gym is shut down,boarded up. It's marked up by graffiti,broken windows,and used hypodermic needles strewn around the premises. "Indio" is happy living in New York City with his wife. It doesn't matter if he was the toast of TJ during his reign of being a regular on the Friday night fights.He'd always go back to Colonia Morelos in TJ and walk the neighborhood. The locals were always glad to see the their hometown boy who made good.Now the old timers just talk about those days.

Rodolfo Gonzalez is another ex patriot. In the beginning he fought in many of the "pueblitos" in the states of Jalisco and Michoacán. "Gato" worked his way up in the local bullrings fighting guys who were a lot older.It was sink or swim. Rodolfo made good,He worked hard and eventually won a title from Chango Carmona.With his dough he took care of his mom and opened a couple of bars in the red light district called the Coahuila in Tijuana. But after awhile he got tired of getting shaken down by everyone who worked for the government or the mob. It was hard to tell the difference between the two. Rodolfo has told me he has no "ganas" to go back. His brother keeps writing him wanting to know if Rodolfo has any pull to get him "al Norte."Just think if they ever took down the fence. But the trade off is the legal migration via our State Department. It's a trade off. Mexico has what we want(natural resources and U.S. corporate expansion) and we take their unemployed.

You can count me in as another one who has thrown in the towel as far of having a desire to live in Mexico. Too many problerms. Me and mt brother in law ,if we see each other again,will get into it and even if I survive our battle of honor,I'll have to deal with everyone down their who pulls the strings. It ain't worth it.

But I want to focus on something now. I'll probably never see it again.It's how the people down in my wife's state kick up their heels. The video I"m putting up is from a typical party in the state of Michoacán. In fact the party looks like it could have occurred in the park,called the "bosque", just outside of town. These are the get togethers that "Gato" Gonzalez and "Indio" Ortega can only dream about now.The carnitas,cervezas,las chavalas.Let's hope some guy doesn't get jealous and pull a gun.The music is authentic of the state of Michoacán .Not mariachis.Not Nortena. No Sinoaloan music here. This is their music. It doesn't get any closer than that. For me and "Gato" and Gaspar Ortega it's something that's too far away and not worth the trouble to go back to. The positives are outweighed by the negatives.But the positives are nice to think about once in awhile.

http://youtu.be/ID9RJPyw74M

Conjunto De Michoacán



El Campesino

[Chuck1052]

Starting on Sunday in the Los Angeles Times, there has been a four-part series about the terrible working and living conditions endured by farmworkers on large Mexican tomato farms. A large portion of the Roma tomatoes grown on such farms have been shipped to the United States.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Starting on Sunday in the Los Angeles Times, there has been a four-part series about the terrible working and living conditions endured by farmworkers on large Mexican tomato farms. A large portion of the Roma tomatoes grown on such farms have been shipped to the United States.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck,Michoacan is the largest producer of avocados in the world. Avocados cost more in Michoacán than in San Diego. Like everything else that's a hot commodity in Mexico,it's all sold to the U.S.

[Chuck1052]

Roger, I knew that the U.S. imports a lot of agricultural products from Latin America, including Mexico. I am in favor of such imports continuing except in cases when the farmworkers are not treated in a fair manner. Working and living conditions for California farmworkers are bad in many cases, but it appears that such conditions are often much worse for Mexican farmworkers.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Idle Talk

"Did you catch that old Mae West movie last night on TV?",I asked Ed the bartender as he put a glass of wine on the bar.
"No,what was the name of it?"
"You know I forgot,but I saw Cary Grant in it."
"Didn't Mae West go around with a lot of fighters?"
"Chalky Wright worked for her."
"I heard Mike Mazurky say once that she had a thing for guys with broken noses,"said Ed as he went over to turn on the TV.
"A lot of those fighters and wrestlers on the west coast got into the movies."
"It was about the only sports in Los Angeles so a lot of the stars frequented the arenas in town."
"I saw Crazy Legs Hirsch in a movie once."
"I saw Art Aragon on a episode of Dragnet."
"He was in to Hell and Back with Audie Murphy."
"Didn't he name one of his kids after him?"
Ed began searching for something on the TV with the remote.
"What do you want to watch?"
"Makes no difference to me."
"Here's a NASCAR race."
"That's fine."
A couple of guys from outside craned their necks around the door. I could see them squinting. After a few moments they went back outside again.
"Still thinking of selling the house in Mexico?"asked Ed.
"Yeah. My wife is getting it fixed up."
"Too bad.You were thinking of retiring there."
"That was then,but things changed.And that beef with my brother in law put the nail in it."
"There's no way you can have come out on top with that one."
"I either kill him or he kills me. There isn't any alternative."
"That's too bad."
"My wife was getting tired of it too.The country is in a tailspin.People want out real bad."
"Those murders of those 43 students didn't help."
"Before the 68 Olympics the police gunned down sevral hundred students in Mexico City who were protesting."
"I think I remember something about that," said Ed wiping off the bar.
"At least you know something about it. I asked my 25 year old granddaughter who lives in TJ about that and she said she never heard about it."
"That's strange."
"If it doesn't have anything to do with them it's not important."
Ed picked up the remote again.
"You want me to switch the channel?"
"It's fine there."
"Well maybe you'll turn a profit on the house."
"I doubt it.Who would want to move there?"
"You never know."
"I'll never forget what my wife told me about what her brother said about me when we had it out."
"What was that?"
"He said I don't belong there. After more than 40 years of going down there, he says that."
"He's got his nerve,"said Ed.
"You know ,maybe he's right. Especially now the way things turned out."
"Well,you belong here,"he said.
"I guess I belong wherever my butt is resting at the time, whether they like it or not."


Chalky Wright

[Chuck1052]

Dollree Mapp was an ex-wife of Jimmy Bivins, a one-time fiancee of Archie Moore and a party in the 1961 landmark Mapp Case, which resulted in a far-reaching U.S. Supreme Court decision about 4th Amendment issues, including mandating that state courts had to throw out illegally obtained evidence in cases. As a result, Mapp was regarded as the Rosa Parks of the 4th Amendment. According to her obituary in the December 14, 2014 edition of the Los Angeles Times, Mapp passed away at the age of 91 on October 31, 2014 in Conyers, Georgia.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

A Tweed Suit And A Shot Of Soda

I knew a couple of brothers who lived in Ocean Beach.They were from England.Their names were Ian and Nigel. They were going to school at San Diego State majoring in lit and wanting to be, later on, was anyone's guess. Ian,the older one,was living with an American gal in a little apartment by the beach. Nigel liked living alone and also had a flat near the water.

I liked hanging around both of them because they could talk more about things than just" tits and ass." They were what I guess you would call today being "liberal",but then it was the 60's and life in Ocean Beach was very similar to what the thinking was in San Francisco. But the lifestyle was spreading out just about everywhere in the country.Even Richard Nixon had sideburns.

I frequented Nigel's place more because I didn't want to be a third wheel over at Ian's .Ian had his woman and I was flying solo so I didn't want to intrude. One night while I was visiting Nigel over a bottle of wine and a few joints,he laid this on me.
"Roger,I'd like to go down with you one day to the gym.I want to see what boxing is all about."
This was a little bit of a shock. I didn't know if it was the wine or the bong resin (or a both)that was doing the talking,but I didn't shun away from the offer. After clearing our heads the following morning,Nigel's plea remained adamant. We hopped in my 57 Chevy the next Monday and headed towards the old Coliseum.

Now I wouldn't call Nigel a robust individual. He was a lanky sort .He was over 6 feet and probably weighed in at welter.He had one of those early Beatle haircuts that in those days was considered having "long hair."Nigel was on the school cross country team and was athletic enough where I thought he wouldn't look pathetic when he laced up his gloves.

The fighters would arrive at the Coliseum around late afternoon. When we walked inside,I saw Burke Emery working with a couple of the boys. Between sparring,I introduced Nigel to Burke and told him of Nigel's proposition. Burke was never overly enthusiastic about anything and gave Nigel a quick look over.
"He can change in locker room,"said Burke to me not giving Nigel another glance.
Nigel came out wearing a pair of high top black tennis shoes and gray gym shorts,the kind they wear in a school phys ed class.It was understood that Nigel had never done this before.Even though he was in a foreign environment,he wanted to go through with it. Nigel is what you would have called an "intellectual",but he had a good sense of what was happening in the street. His thick accent wasn't an issue with the other guys.He showed the guts to do it. After awhile they could see that Nigel was OK.

Me and Nigel would hit the gym during that summer pretty regularly. There were a few of us from the beach that would drop in.We weren't kidding ourselves. We knew that fighting wasn't going to be our meal ticket,but Burke and the other trainers knew that we wouldn't embarrass ourselves nor the rest of the fighters.We gave them what they wanted. Someone who could get their guy to come around.

As the weeks went by Nigel progressed. He felt good about getting in there and proving to himself that he could take it. In a way it was kind of cute. The scrawny English guy who was very proud of knowing that he could hang with the rest of the guys.A guy who could discuss Shakespeare and mix like a banty rooster.He was taken in by fellas' and became a friend.Nigel felt very good about taking that step to go to the gym. It was a rite of passage.

Maybe if more kids to took that step,that rite,it would put the term "growing up" in a more proper perspective.

[dagosd2000]

The old San Diego Coliseum a few years ago. A furniture warehouse. Today all that is left is a vacant lot.

[dagosd2000]

Sticks And Stones

I read where Ernie Terrell passed away. Like many of the ex boxers he lived with dementia at the end. He lost to Ali as "The Greatest"carried him through 15 torturous rounds to take revenge for Terrell remaining adamant referring to the champ by his "Cassius Clay name.(Why did guys like Patterson and Terrell think they were trying to prove by still calling him Cassius Clay?) Ali trash talked Terrell carving him up at will. Terrell never won a round let alone could put Ali in harms way. The "fight" was notable more for the taunting than the athletic performance.

Howard Cosell took Ali to task for the way Muhammad handled the situation. Sitting together in the television studio,the toupee and the author of "I Never Played The Game" chastised Ali for his behavior as they watched the fight on tape.Cosell was championing a cause for decency and righteousness for how the sport should be displayed. Name calling is not nice. You can hurt the other guy's feelings.

But performances like the Ali/Terrell encounter are not uncommon. Jack Johnson ridiculed Burns and Jeffries with his mouth. Fitzsimmons stood over Corbett and called him "a son of a bitch".Naughty naughty. I wonder if the fore mentioned defeated felt more pain from their adversaries blows than from the verbal abuse.

There's always been made a big deal about Ali calling Frazier a "gorilla." I guess in politically correct circles,the sensitive and opportunists would seek a lawyer. And the shylocks ,if not approached, would initiate the overture.

I don't think Burns,Corbett,Jeff,nor Terrell sought out a psychiatrist to mend their damaged self esteem nor legal counsel. They weren't babies.And they weren't chicken s---.Probably something like a defamation of character suit would have been tossed in the round file in a judge's courtroom when concerning fighters calling each other names.

So media sensationalists like Howard make a big deal about something like name calling. I don't think Cosell gave a rat's ass about Ernie Terrell.Cosell wanted the publicity.He wanted the masses to think he was addressing truth and justice and the American way.Howard wouldn't stand for any hitting below the belt.The same Cosell that referred to the black running back Joe Washington having a running style like a "little monkey."That was OK. Howard used his lawyer rhetoric to back peddle out of that one. Muhammad Ali should have grilled him in front of television audience.But Ali wasn't a chicken s---.There was nothing in it for him.No ulterior motive.

Ernie Terrell will be remembered by his peers for being a good heavyweight fighter. To use an old phrase, he did his talking with his fists.


Ernie Terrell in his later years

[dagosd2000]

The Priest Is A Jew

There's an old Rosselinni movie where three GI men of the cloth enter a Catholic monastery in Italy during the big war . One of the servicemen is a Catholic priest and speaks Italian so he's able to convey to his two colleagues what the monks want them to obey when inside the monastery. It's a humble atmosphere of sacrifice and suffering.The bridge to heaven is a path of potholes that need to be navigated through daily struggle. Nothing is easy.Getting to heaven is constantly trying to avoid the devil's temptations,but if you follow God's light the sins that accompany mortality will be banished by the faith and you'll have that everlasting life

As the two sides are getting to know each other amiably,even if the process is a little awkward.The monks ask the Americans if they are hungry and would like to join the rest of the flock for supper.The Americans say they are famished.However, it is discovered that the two other clergymen with the GI priest are not Catholic. One is a Protestant and the other is a Jew.The non Catholics aren't thinking anything about it,but the monks are worried.
"A follower of Martin Luther and a Jew in our monastery,"gasps one of the monks."Is it safe to permit them to stay with us?"
The head monk feels the risk is worth it. They must be big about this. Besides they have the faith. It's only another pothole.


The clergymen are told that talking is not permitted in the dining area.A vegetarian soup will be the meal. There will be several monks who will fast trying to circumvent those potholes of weakness and gluttony. The silence is eerie as the men eat. The monks are constantly peering at the Americans.Maybe they thought lightning was going to strike. Finally the American priest breaks protocol and stands up.
"I apologize ,"he says,"but I must say to you that we are very grateful for how you have taken us into your home and your hearts. God is not biased when allowing people into his kingdom."

The scene ends and the next episode of the movie ensues.There is no mention of the clergymen again or any flashbacks. The American priest had the final word. If only the Judeo Christian model could be practiced with that in mind. Muslims believe in one God too. All three pray to the same one. It's the battle of the prophets that cause the rift. So Christmas doesn't mean that much to the Muslims and Jews.Their observances are not the Christian ones and to some Christians that is abhorrent.Take in all the other religions and it even gets farther from the one God belief not to mention Christianity

So tomorrow it's Christmas.Merry Christmas to all who believe that it's Jesus's birthday and to everyone else who thinks it doesn't matter,have a happy holiday and don't fall into any potholes.

[dagosd2000]

I call this one "Happy Jesus". Not many images of Jesus smiling. Here he is with the children of all the races .

[scartissue]

The Priest Is A Jew

There's an old Rosselinni movie where three GI men of the cloth enter a Catholic monastery in Italy during the big war . One of the servicemen is a Catholic priest and speaks Italian so he's able to convey to his two colleagues what the monks want them to obey when inside the monastery. It's a humble atmosphere of sacrifice and suffering.The bridge to heaven is a path of potholes that need to be navigated through daily struggle. Nothing is easy.Getting to heaven is constantly trying to avoid the devil's temptations,but if you follow God's light the sins that accompany mortality will be banished by the faith and you'll have that everlasting life

As the two sides are getting to know each other amiably,even if the process is a little awkward.The monks ask the Americans if they are hungry and would like to join the rest of the flock for supper.The Americans say they are famished.However, it is discovered that the two other clergymen with the GI priest are not Catholic. One is a Protestant and the other is a Jew.The non Catholics aren't thinking anything about it,but the monks are worried.
"A follower of Martin Luther and a Jew in our monastery,"gasps one of the monks."Is it safe to permit them to stay with us?"
The head monk feels the risk is worth it. They must be big about this. Besides they have the faith. It's only another pothole.


The clergymen are told that talking is not permitted in the dining area.A vegetarian soup will be the meal. There will be several monks who will fast trying to circumvent those potholes of weakness and gluttony. The silence is eerie as the men eat. The monks are constantly peering at the Americans.Maybe they thought lightning was going to strike. Finally the American priest breaks protocol and stands up.
"I apologize ,"he says,"but I must say to you that we are very grateful for how you have taken us into your home and your hearts. God is not biased when allowing people into his kingdom."

The scene ends and the next episode of the movie ensues.There is no mention of the clergymen again or any flashbacks. The American priest had the final word. If only the Judeo Christian model could be practiced with that in mind. Muslims believe in one God too. All three pray to the same one. It's the battle of the prophets that cause the rift. So Christmas doesn't mean that much to the Muslims and Jews.Their observances are not the Christian ones and to some Christians that is abhorrent.Take in all the other religions and it even gets farther from the one God belief not to mention Christianity

So tomorrow it's Christmas.Merry Christmas to all who believe that it's Jesus's birthday and to everyone else who thinks it doesn't matter,have a happy holiday and don't fall into any potholes.

Merry Christmas, Rog, and to all our friends here at classic west coast boxing.

[Chuck1052]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to Everyone!

- Chuck Johnston

[arlangulko]

hi, guys im new to this site, didn't even know it was here, im 72 years old, born and raised in long beach
calif, always loved boxing, I remember the oylmpic from the 50s and 6os. Gilmore stadium before that
boy do these threads bring back memories. I saw aragon -basilio in wrigley field. I saw roy harris and Floyd Patterson,
was a regular at the oylmpic in the 60s. used to watch the fights at the Moulin rouge when joe Louis was there.
im going tol love this site. does anyone know of anyone who used to work out at the 4th st. gym in santa ana
calif, in the early 60s I worked out there, at the same time as curtis cokes, who had a fight with johnny neuman
at the Moulin rouge in 1963. cokes kayoed him in the 2nd. saw ernie red ko hedgeman at the Olympic. ive
got a lot of reading here to do on this west coast boxing thread. thanks for the memories guys.

I worke out at the 4th street gym in early 60`s. Helped Baron VonStume with some of his fighters.
The big name in the gym then was Ray Salazar-ranked bantum weight at one time.

[dagosd2000]

The Fiction Writer

I remember just before Nino Benvenuti's rematch with Carlos Monzon,Benvenuti was being interviewed and had a book in his hand.
"I'm reading Hemingway,"he said."This is about real life and what it takes to have courage,"he went on."When reading Hemingway I feel confident again."
Maybe those weren't Benvenuti's exact words,but that was the gist of what he said.He was looking for something to brace him up. Monzon had broken him down stopping him the 12th round to wrest the title.Benvenuti's spirit was shattered.In front of his paisans in Rome .He was counted out face down on all fours. The rematch was to take place in Monte Carlo.

I wanted Nino to win back the middleweight championship.I figured it was going to be an uphill battle. Monzon was very strong and had a good chin.Never was there more a determined battler. He went over to hostile territory and accomplished a very tough task.But after watching that pre fight interview with Benvenuti,I had my doubts. Nino was looking for something to inspire him from the outside instead of digging down deep for a gut check.Reading Ernest Hemingway seemed like Nino was kidding himself.I don't think Carlos needed to take a trip to the library.



I watched again the second fight on Youtube. Howard Cosell was doing the blow by blow. During the first round he said that Benvenuti would always show better in the rematch after a loss. He kept this chatter up through the first two rounds,but you could see that Benvenuti was walking on egg shells. His knees buckled everytime the Argentinian landed a blow. Monzon was sensing that Benvenuti was shaky. He didn't want any part of him. But Howard didn't want to admit that he might have been mistaken about Benvenuti's comeback.Monzon,sensing like an enraged animal stalking a frightened prey, began roughing up the Italian. Holding and hitting,rabbit punching,throwing Benvenuti to the canvas like a wet dish rag. The fight by the third frame had turned into an embarrassment. After Nino's third flop to the canvas,face down on all fours ala fight numero uno,his corner threw the towel into the ring

Well Howard began ranting and raving that the ref can't stop a championship fight when the corner has seen enough of his guy getting the crap beat out of him. He was going to climb into the ring to get to the bottom of this. YAWN. Nino, meanwhile, was throwing a tantrum.He was visibly upset that the fight was stopped.He was moved to crying.

They say theater began in Italy. This was a tragic/comic display that Fellinni would have greatly appreciated.I would have liked to see the referee change his mind and send Benvenuti back in there. Monzon had tasted blood. If ref would have reconsidered and shoved Nino back in there, ,the result could have been aired on an episode of Wild Kingdom.

To Benvenuti's credit he never fought again.He certainly didn't want anything more to do with Carlos Monzon. I remember a line in one of Ernest Hemingway's novels.
"A liar can write more convincingly than someone who was there."
I wonder if Benvenuti had ever read that book.



Carlos Monzon

[dagosd2000]

Purpose

Muhammad Ali has had more written about him than any other athlete bar none. More filmed documentaries.Books.Magazine articles..Discussions in bar rooms to university classrooms.This phenomenom is international.
When he was in the limelight they say he was the most recognizable face in the world. It may still be true.

I just saw the latest documentary on the champ,"I Am Ali",on my Netfilx streamer. Produced in 2014,the documentary goes through the life of the young Cassius Clay growing up in Louisville,Kentucky to more or less the time of his last fight with Trevor Berbick.Like all the tomes and histories of Muhammad Ali,fans(and enemies)are looking for something "new."

There are the interviews with Ali's brother, Dundee,Foreman,Marvis Frazier,Muhammad's son and two of his daughters. Veronica Porsche,Ali's third wife, has a say.Gene Kilroy,Ali's business manger has a lot to offer too.Notice that I haven't broken any of their insights down. Much of it has been heard before. Many of Muhammad's star struck were not on camera.Ali's other three wives,Larry Holmes,and Ferdie Pacheco to name a few,but we can always go back and look up to what they had to say.

So anytime I watch another segment on the life of Muhammad Ali,I look for something I didn't know before. With"I Am Ali" there were some taped conversations that Ali had with his children that piqued my interest. One phone conversation involved Ali and his little daughter, Maryum. He posed a question to her.It went something like this.(Muhammad speaking in that low steady voice he'd use when he was very serious.)
"Maryum,God puts everything on this earth for a purpose.The cows,the pigs,the dogs,the ants.God has a purpose for everyone. What do you think your' purpose' is?"
"To make people feel good,"Maryum responded without hesitating talking in a cute little girl voice.
Ali said nothing.

Another anecdote was a story about Ali visiting a little boy who was in the last stages of leukemia.This was prior to the George Foreman fight.The little boy requested to see his hero before he knew the time would come. Ali visited his fan in the hospital. Ali told the sick boy that he would beat Foreman.He emphatically told the boy that was also going to beat leukemia.But the child told Ali that he was looking forward to meeting God and telling Him that he knew Muhammad Ali.

I think Ali knew how his daughter was going to answer his question about one's "purpose." That's why he didn't feel he had to say anything.Sure it was his fight career that put the face out there,but looking back on all that now, seeing Ali his final rounds,we know why his story will be told eternally.

[dagosd2000]

Hangin' Around

Dan Hanley sent me an interview he recently did with ex Philly middleweight Curtis Parker.I think Dan's stuff is just great. What I like most is how he gets the former fighters to open up.One of these days he should compile his interviews and put a book together.

Getting back to Curtis Parker. Dan was walking him through his fistic career when Curtis interjected that he didn't want to "hang around." He knew the fight window closes faster than with other sports especially if you're thinking about making a buck and not winding up with scrambled brains.My time I spent bouncing around the various boxing gyms in San Diego, I saw a lot of "hangin' arounders". In fact it really didn't matter what their ability was,the majority hung around too long.

For some it was a paycheck. Denny Moyer would say he could pull in 15 hundred smackers a month fighting in Las Vegas at the Silver Slipper.He knew his best was behind him.It was an "easy" way to make some money. With his name he could draw a pretty good audience still,but most of the bouts were simply opportunities for the other guy.But once in a while Moyer would derail the" up and comer" and make the young fellow rethink his aspirations.

Light heavy Ronnie Wilson was another fighter who was moving in quicksand. He was a bleeder and often Sid Flaherity would send him out there when the scar tissue was still pink.He'd fight a guy he'd already had wupt when he should have been testing a better quality athlete.Ronnie had a lot of fights that shouldn't have been made.

But like I said,most fighters don't know when to get out of Dodge. Sometimes they're fed a lot of baloney by the guys making money off them. Sometimes the pug thinks he's still got it. Unfortunately, many of the boys never had it to begin with.

But my thoughts on this matter have been presented I think as far as I want to go. I don't want to just hang around with anymore unnecessary chatter. So I'll leave you all with a "Happy New Year" and may all your wishes come true.Hopefully one of those dreams is a Pacquiao/Mayweather showdown.They better get it on soon.It would be sad to see those two one day just hangin' around.

[dagosd2000]

Federico Fellinni

[scartissue]

Hangin' Around

Dan Hanley sent me an interview he recently did with ex Philly middleweight Curtis Parker.I think Dan's stuff is just great. What I like most is how he gets the former fighters to open up.One of these days he should compile his interviews and put a book together.

Getting back to Curtis Parker. Dan was walking him through his fistic career when Curtis interjected that he didn't want to "hang around." He knew the fight window closes faster than with other sports especially if you're thinking about making a buck and not winding up with scrambled brains.My time I spent bouncing around the various boxing gyms in San Diego, I saw a lot of "hangin' arounders". In fact it really didn't matter what their ability was,the majority hung around too long.

For some it was a paycheck. Denny Moyer would say he could pull in 15 hundred smackers a month fighting in Las Vegas at the Silver Slipper.He knew his best was behind him.It was an "easy" way to make some money. With his name he could draw a pretty good audience still,but most of the bouts were simply opportunities for the other guy.But once in a while Moyer would derail the" up and comer" and make the young fellow rethink his aspirations.

Light heavy Ronnie Wilson was another fighter who was moving in quicksand. He was a bleeder and often Sid Flaherity would send him out there when the scar tissue was still pink.He'd fight a guy he'd already had wupt when he should have been testing a better quality athlete.Ronnie had a lot of fights that shouldn't have been made.

But like I said,most fighters don't know when to get out of Dodge. Sometimes they're fed a lot of baloney by the guys making money off them. Sometimes the pug thinks he's still got it. Unfortunately, many of the boys never had it to begin with.

But my thoughts on this matter have been presented I think as far as I want to go. I don't want to just hang around with anymore unnecessary chatter. So I'll leave you all with a "Happy New Year" and may all your wishes come true.Hopefully one of those dreams is a Pacquiao/Mayweather showdown.They better get it on soon.It would be sad to see those two one day just hangin' around.

Rog, your mention of Mayweather - Pac had me thinking. First of all Floyd didn't want to fight because he wanted to have steroid testing and now he wants a 70-30 split. Why doesn't he just say that he doesn't want to fight him? I think of your favorite fighter, Mantequilla, who had no such reservations. His body of work included Emile Griffith, Curtis Cokes (twice), Hedgemon lewis (twice), Billy Backus (twice), Eddie Perkins, Carlos Hernandez, Armando Muniz (twice), Ernie Lopez (twice), Alfredo Urbina (4 times), Clyde Gray, Adolph Pruitt (twice), etc., etc. My God, can a fighter today take a lesson from this?

[dagosd2000]

Hangin' Around

Dan Hanley sent me an interview he recently did with ex Philly middleweight Curtis Parker.I think Dan's stuff is just great. What I like most is how he gets the former fighters to open up.One of these days he should compile his interviews and put a book together.

Getting back to Curtis Parker. Dan was walking him through his fistic career when Curtis interjected that he didn't want to "hang around." He knew the fight window closes faster than with other sports especially if you're thinking about making a buck and not winding up with scrambled brains.My time I spent bouncing around the various boxing gyms in San Diego, I saw a lot of "hangin' arounders". In fact it really didn't matter what their ability was,the majority hung around too long.

For some it was a paycheck. Denny Moyer would say he could pull in 15 hundred smackers a month fighting in Las Vegas at the Silver Slipper.He knew his best was behind him.It was an "easy" way to make some money. With his name he could draw a pretty good audience still,but most of the bouts were simply opportunities for the other guy.But once in a while Moyer would derail the" up and comer" and make the young fellow rethink his aspirations.

Light heavy Ronnie Wilson was another fighter who was moving in quicksand. He was a bleeder and often Sid Flaherity would send him out there when the scar tissue was still pink.He'd fight a guy he'd already had wupt when he should have been testing a better quality athlete.Ronnie had a lot of fights that shouldn't have been made.

But like I said,most fighters don't know when to get out of Dodge. Sometimes they're fed a lot of baloney by the guys making money off them. Sometimes the pug thinks he's still got it. Unfortunately, many of the boys never had it to begin with.

But my thoughts on this matter have been presented I think as far as I want to go. I don't want to just hang around with anymore unnecessary chatter. So I'll leave you all with a "Happy New Year" and may all your wishes come true.Hopefully one of those dreams is a Pacquiao/Mayweather showdown.They better get it on soon.It would be sad to see those two one day just hangin' around.

Rog, your mention of Mayweather - Pac had me thinking. First of all Floyd didn't want to fight because he wanted to have steroid testing and now he wants a 70-30 split. Why doesn't he just say that he doesn't want to fight him? I think of your favorite fighter, Mantequilla, who had no such reservations. His body of work included Emile Griffith, Curtis Cokes (twice), Hedgemon lewis (twice), Billy Backus (twice), Eddie Perkins, Carlos Hernandez, Armando Muniz (twice), Ernie Lopez (twice), Alfredo Urbina (4 times), Clyde Gray, Adolph Pruitt (twice), etc., etc. My God, can a fighter today take a lesson from this?

Dan,I've seen a few glimpses of Mayweather when he has just been himself around people he has to do business with or just being caught on camera when he wasn't expecting it. He's kind of a shy humble kid in a way. I know that might seem like a stretch,but I don't think Floyd Mayweather has a lot of street toughness in him.

I was watching a replay of the Jimmy V Foundation ceremony in 2014 when the very ill Stuart Scott got up to make his speech after accepting his award. Scott mentioned some of his close friends who were in attendance. He mentioned Floyd. The camera then focused on Mayweather.He was caught off guard. He looked like a nice kid with a nice little smile.He looked nervous and afraid. You just wanted to give him a hug. Another time I saw a segment on Mayweather going to a doctor to get his hands examined.The doctor was an old guy who had that paternal calmness he exuded onto his patients. Mayweather was polite and very modest with the doc. The old guy said that Floyd was a very nice person who always showed him respect.You could see it on the film.Floyd was a little gentleman.

What I'm trying to get at is that Floyd Mayweather isn't as tough as he sometimes acts with all the trash talking and bravado. I don't think he'd hold up in prison as well as Manny Pacquiao. Floyd is a pitter patter defensive fighter who has gotten by a lot of slower guys that can't hit him enough times. Pacquiao is relentless in his attack. He's like a crazed animal...and he's fast. Floyd couldn't keep Pacquiao off of him.At 147 Floyd doesn't have the power to deal with Manny.Floyd keeps making excuses. He knows it would be very hard for him to beat him.It would take a super human effort.A lot of energy and conditioning that Floyd right now can't muster up. He wouldn't be able to play cat and mouse, and steal a victory.Manny would be all over him.Floyd is not the type of fighter that wants to engage in a non stop war.

I don't think there is any amount of money that would entice Floyd to fight him.Floyd is well fixed. He can keep fighting guys that can't catch him for now. If he's smart he'll hang up the gloves before he gets in there with a fighter who'll be in the right time and place,like Antonio Tarver was against Roy Jones. Sooner or later that will happen. Or like Napoles losing against Stracey.No one thought that would happen either, especially Jose. Father time will contribute to Mayweather's first defeat as much as the opponent regardless whether it's Manny Pacquiao or some guy who came out of the woodwork.

[dagosd2000]

Brown On Black

I remember when Ali was training for the first Norton fight in some swank hotel in Mission Valley in San Diego.
I remember he spent more time walking around the ring talking to everyone with a microphone in his hand than sparring with his sparring partners Tony Doyle and Billy Joiner. But is was a lock that Ali would have no problem with Kenny Norton.At the time Norton's career was in a flux. He was working his way back from a devastating knockout from the hands. of Jose Luis Garcia.His most impressive victory recently was a KO of Henry Clark.Norton was also seeing a psychiatrist,Dr. Dean Ezell,trying to bolster his confidence questions.But it was Norton who shocked the world breaking Ali's jaw and if it wasn't for Ali's name, Frank Rustich the referee,could have halted to fight in the final round.I don't think there would have been much of a squawk.

I also remember prior to that fight that Ali was scheduled to take his entourage to Tijuana to train for a day at the Municipal Coliseum. There were posters on walls on the sides of buildings and lamp posts all over town. I swiped a few of those,but gave them away later to friends. I could have put them on Ebay today and made a little profit.

But Ali never went down to TJ to put on his show. I know he bought some Reyes boxing equipment at Viking Sporting Goods in centro,but there was never any public workout across the border.I don't know the details for the cancellation,but it was for Ali's good that it never went off. I understand the aficianados well enough to know that Ali's act would have backfired in his face.Mexicans never took to Ali too much. They don't like fighters,especially American black fighters,that brag,and call themselves"pretty".(Are you reading this Mayweather?) Ali's schtick would have went over like a wet medicine ball.

I remember when Ali said, while he was going through his problems with the draft board, that no Viet Cong ever called him a "n----r." Well that was because he never went to Vietnam. I'm sure the Vietnamese have their own word for "n----r."
Mexicans use that word too,but they also have some of their own. Ali would have gotten an earful for sure.

But don't get me wrong,there were a few Afro/American fighters that had the Mexican fight fan's respect. Joe Luis(they called him Jose Luis) was admired greatly in Mexico. He even fought exhibitions at the Arena Coliseo with Arturo Godoy in Mexico City. Joe Louis also put on exhibitions in Latin America and the Caribbean while he was champion.Joe Louis was humble and acted like a gentleman. He was respectful of others.Put those qualities together with his KO ratio and the Latinos showed their reverence.

Another African/American fighter that was adored was Archie Moore. Exhibiting the same mannerisms as Louis,the Mongoose was very popular south of the border. In fact the San Diego based Archie never fought here after he won the light heavy title,but did put on a match with Howard King in TJ.

One time I went see Ruben Olivares fight some Japanese dude in the old downtown bullring in Tijuana. Ruben was undefeated,the bantam champ,and the darling of Mexico. Before his fight ,the announcer introduced Archie Moore who was at ringside.Archie climbed through the ropes. All of a sudden ten thousand people rose in unison and cheered for ten minutes. Moore was blowing kisses to the crowd.They went crazy. It was very emotional. I'd never seen anything like that from a Mexican fight crowd. Olivares didn't get that kind of reception when he was introduced before his go.Says something.

Yeah Muhammad,they never called you "n----r" in Nam or in TJ.You never gave them the chance. Joe Louis and Archie Moore made their appearances,at least down Mexico way.If they were alive they could say they never were called the "N" word either.



Joe Louis

[dagosd2000]

Mortal Combat

Ed the bartender at Champs Lounge was marking the levels of booze on the liquor bottles with a magic marker when I pulled up a stool at the bar.
"Isn't that doing it the old fashioned way?"I asked him.
"We should get one of those guns that shoot a shot of booze automatically into the glass,but we're always behind the times.,"he answered drawing a line on the bottle.
"Maybe that's why I still come in here,"I said with a laugh.
Ed put down the marker and drew me a beer from the tap.
"Tap beer is better than the bottled stuff now,"he said."They've taken all that gas out of it,"said Ed putting a nice head on the glass.
"Not to change the subject,but I think my Yahoo homepage on my computer is tapped into that Boxrec site. I keep getting these stories updated everyday on what's going on with Pacquiao and Mayweather."
"Sounds like it.That isn't a big headline."
Ed put the glass of beer in front of me on a coaster.
"So what do they have to say?"asked Ed.
"Same ol' same 'ol.Everyone is trying to work things out."
"To think the biggest story in boxing is about a fight that should of happened ten years ago."
"I don't think Pacquiao is the obstacle. I used to think that,but it's this Mayweather who's tough to deal with."
"Why's that?"asked Ed.
"The guy must think about going out undefeated. I can only think of Marciano doing that."
"I think Pacquiao can beat him,"said Ed.
"You know everytime there's a discussion about who was the greatest heavyweight champion,Marciano always gets a call."
"That's only because he never lost."
"Think if LaStarza gets the split decision over him? No one would mention Rocky as being the greatest."
"There was a time when I thought Foreman would go undefeated."
"What if Tunney doesn't lose that one time to Greb?He goes something like 80 and O.But no one mentions him as the greatest heavyweight champ.Maybe he gets a call at light heavy,but not heavy."
"Yeah,"said Ed scratching his head."If you go undefeated it's like being immortal."
"I thought Roy Jones might never get wupped."
"Aaron Pryor got close."
"But you lose just once and you're mortal."
Ed went over to the TV and picked up the remote.
"Anything you want to watch?"he asked.
"There's supposed to be another documentary on Ali on ESPN."
"He was 'The Greatest',but he lost."
"Marciano even 'beat ' him,but that's what they programed into the computer."
"I wonder what they would have put into that computer if LaStarza got the win the first time they fought?"
"There wouldn't have been any interest in putting something that dumb together into a machine."