Corrie Sanders v. Earnie Shavers

[Woldemar]

Two big punchers.Who ya got?

[Ezzard]

Earnie.

Sanders was better than his record suggests. And seems to be something of a cult figure around here. But I think Earnie was so much more seasoned.

[HomicideHenry]

Depends on which version of Sanders shows up...

He certainly had a better chin than Earnie did. He was also bigger, and better overall in skills than Earnie.

[Tomasino]

Earnie would bully Sanders into defeat and kayo him around the 5th.

[cjdragon]

It would be a short fight, 50/50 either way in my opinion, assuming both fighters showed up at their best.
Sanders by KO 2, or Shavers by TKO 6.
Big edge to Sanders in chin, moderate edge to Shavers in power.

I would pay to watch that fantasy fight. :)

[evrenb]

Earnie by kayo. Sanders had a short reach for his height. Fit weights there was under 10 lbs in it. Earnie was so much better imo. Kayo for Earnie.

[gregor]

Big edge to Sanders in chin, moderate edge to Shavers in power.

Why do you give Sanders big edge there? He showed decent chin only against Vitali (whose power is overrated IMHO). Otherwise he got flattened by one punch from Tubbs. Are 8 rounds with Vitali really that much better than 6 with Lyle (and full distance with Ali & Holmes)?

Overall I would favour Shavers slightly, though I agree this would make an interesting fight.

[BoxBuzz]

First guy to hit a home run wins this. I like Corries chances recognizing him as an underdog, but if no one puts the other to sleep, I suspect Ernie wins any decision. Hard to imagine it going the distance though.

[cjdragon]

Big edge to Sanders in chin, moderate edge to Shavers in power.

Why do you give Sanders big edge there? He showed decent chin only against Vitali (whose power is overrated IMHO). Otherwise he got flattened by one punch from Tubbs. Are 8 rounds with Vitali really that much better than 6 with Lyle (and full distance with Ali & Holmes)?

Overall I would favour Shavers slightly, though I agree this would make an interesting fight.

Nate Tubbs (Tony's brother, of course) had a decent punch. 12-1 (10 KO's) going into his fight with Sanders. 14 of his final total 18 wins by KO.
But yeah I shouldn't have used the words "big edge". More of a moderate edge, perhaps :)
Vitali could punch, but I agree his power was more cumulative and a wee bit overrated.

[tiny_acres]

First guy to hit a home run wins this. I like Corries chances recognizing him as an underdog, but if no one puts the other to sleep, I suspect Ernie wins any decision. Hard to imagine it going the distance though.

This is the way I see it.Both guys can swat.But both guys can be ko'd.
Would of been fun while it lasted.

[Michael bennt]

Corrie would of destroyed shavers with his speed, power and beautiful footwork for such a big man

[BoxBuzz]

Corrie would of destroyed shavers with his speed, power and beautiful footwork for such a big man

Well yeah...in a golf game...no doubt.


But the discussion is about boxing.

[dempseyfire]

Their chins were about equal. Shavers had a good chin . .his stoppages were more due to fatigue. That said I'd give the conditioning edge to Shavers.
Earnie by KO.

[man]

Earnie.

Sanders was better than his record suggests. And seems to be something of a cult figure around here. But I think Earnie was so much more seasoned.

second that.

[Bodyshot3]

Depends on which version of Sanders shows up...

Very astute, Corrie could blow as oven hot and ice cold as the weather in his native Pretoria.

There were times when The Sniper could whack good guys out for a fun with that speed and A-grade power - absolutely on another level - but he could also be a sloppy, overweight and disinterested.

Take your pick with Corrie; world-beater with dynamite fists or over-protected domestic heavyweight who did not like being taken out of his comfort zone which was beating up retreads in South African gambling resorts.

I would also suggest that is why he is a huge favourite on 'what if' history threads; his record variously suggests incredible ability and a degree of being fed fighters.

If Earnie got the Sanders that turned-up against Wlad in Hannover then you'd take Corrie every time. That was the night everything clicked for him. People also tend to forget that he was also good in parts against Vitali. The big, avenging K brother took some shots that night and Corrie's overall performance against the K's is worthy of respect.

[gregor]

The big, avenging K brother took some shots that night and Corrie's overall performance against the K's is worthy of respect.

Not to take anything from Sanders, but the main reason Klitschos had problems with him was that they were (both) fighting completely wrong fight against big, aggressive southpaw (with fast and had good power on top of that).

Vitali got away with it since he had better chin than Wlad, and somehow Sanders managed to be more out of shape for the "rematch".

[Ambling Alp II]

I don't see why people think Sanders' power is remotely close to Shavers.
Shavers stopped several top fighters and decked Holmes (twice actually, one was incorrectly ruled a push).

Sanders has one stoppage win worth mentioning, and that was against a guy with a glass jaw.

[Tuan_Jim]

Sanders has one stoppage win worth mentioning, and that was against a guy with a glass jaw.

Exactly. Sanders doesn't even possess a single eyebrow raising knockdown outside the Wladimir fight - and that's a man with 12 or 13 knockdowns against him!

For such a supposedly dynamite puncher, with such supposedly incredible speed and footwork, you really would have thought he'd KO Hasim Rahman.

Those of us who watched the psychologically weak Sanders kept way out the mix throughout the torrid, talent-laden 1990s do find it hard to reconcile this Superman image he's been bequeathed the past decade. It was no surprise at all when he lost to Rahman.

Fighting Shavers would be like fighting a man moving & punching at light speed compared to the dead carrion Sanders beat. Shavers' aggression would terrify Sanders and his power would put him to sleep. As always, 'Best vs Best', whatever that was with Corrie.

[Leonid]

Sanders has one stoppage win worth mentioning, and that was against a guy with a glass jaw.

Exactly. Sanders doesn't even possess a single eyebrow raising knockdown outside the Wladimir fight - and that's a man with 12 or 13 knockdowns against him!

For such a supposedly dynamite puncher, with such supposedly incredible speed and footwork, you really would have thought he'd KO Hasim Rahman.

Those of us who watched the psychologically weak Sanders kept way out the mix throughout the torrid, talent-laden 1990s do find it hard to reconcile this Superman image he's been bequeathed the past decade. It was no surprise at all when he lost to Rahman.

Fighting Shavers would be like fighting a man moving & punching at light speed compared to the dead carrion Sanders beat. Shavers' aggression would terrify Sanders and his power would put him to sleep. As always, 'Best vs Best', whatever that was with Corrie.

Shavers doesn't even possess a single eyebrow raising knockdown outside the Norton fight - and that's a man with 12 or 13 knockdowns against him!

For such a supposedly dynamite puncher, with such supposedly incredible speed and footwork, you really would have thought he'd KO Bob Stallings (at the time 21-24, 5 ko losses).

Those of us who watched the unskilled Shavers losing right and left throughout the overestimated, cruiser-populated 1970s do find it hard to reconcile this Superman image he's been bequeathed the 90s-00s. It was no surprise at all when he lost to Stallings.

Fighting Sanders would be like fighting a man moving & punching at light speed compared to the dead carrion Shavers beat. Sanders' aggression would terrify Shavers and his power would put him to sleep.

Lol, this is pretty much as true as your original statement. Me actually thinks its a pick-em, whoever lands first, but I'd give edge to Sanders as he was bigger.

PS. One could object that Ernie had other solid knockouts - Ellis (started at middleweight!) and Young (6-3 novice, actually cruiser), but that's not much better than Johnny Du Plooy and Carlos DeLeon (53-6, after retirement, but top-3 CW of all time).

[Ambling Alp II]

I will ignore the nonsense and keep it simple.
Shavers stopped guys who were tough to stop: Ken Norton, Joe Bugner, Ellis, Roy Williams, Henry Clark, and Howard Smith. (and he decked Holmes who had a great chin)
Sanders stopped glass jaw Klitschko and no one else worth mentioning.
This isn't exactly a close call as to who was the bigger puncher. It was Shavers by a mile.

[Tuan_Jim]

Really Moronic post by Leonid, who chose wilful blindness to the facts. "Shavers doesn't possess a noteworthy knockdown outside of the Norton fight" - never heard of a peak Larry Holmes then, Leonid? When you're so impressed by flabby men who gas before 8 rounds are up and dismiss physically fit heavyweights who could romp through 15 rounders as "cruisers" your judgement is simply too poor to entertain.

The lean, fit, fast heavyweights of yore would dance circles around cumbersome types like Sanders, Rahman and Nate Tubbs.

[Leonid]

I will ignore the nonsense and keep it simple.
Shavers stopped guys who were tough to stop: Ken Norton, Joe Bugner, Ellis, Roy Williams, Henry Clark, and Howard Smith. (and he decked Holmes who had a great chin)
Sanders stopped glass jaw Klitschko and no one else worth mentioning.
This isn't exactly a close call as to who was the bigger puncher. It was Shavers by a mile.

Shavers may well have a bigger punch, i'm not trying to disprove it here.

Yet I've always felt that his power is somewhat overrated, partly due to legends of him hurting some great fighters with his punches the most they've been hurt (although not stopping them).
Kenny was not that hard to stop. Featherfisted Ali and Holmes did not stop him, but there are plenty of knockdowns to his name as well as ko loss to some scrub.
And how durable can ex-middleweight (Jimmi) be? its only in the precious past eras that such guys could have hold their own in HW.
There's also nothing too special in that sence about the other guys - they were just bigger than average then, so it was harder for smaller guys to ko them, yet all of them had other ko losses, maybe except for Smith, who just did not face anyone desent in his short carrear according to his record.

And I was actually thinking more of knockouts (althought author of original post did say knockdowns), leaving Holmes fight out, since its not really impressive for a heavyweight to be able to deck any other HW with his best shot.

Tuan_Jim, dude, u must be angry that so many people have opinions in subjective areas that differ from yours, but hang in there, stay positive))

[Ambling Alp II]

Nope his power is not overrated. He was the real thing.

Roy Williams was not stopped by anyone else except for Shavers.
The only other times anyone stopped Bugner were his very first pro fight, and twice when he was way over the hill. He was very durable.
How durable can Jimmy Ellis be? Pretty durable. That he started out as a middleweight is completely irrelevant. He was not a middleweight when he fought several top heavyweights. Only Frazier, Ali, and Shavers stopped him.
Clarke was durable; the only other fighters to stop him were Norton and Liston.

Norton was hard to stop. Ali and Holmes were not featherfisted; they both stopped many high quality opponents. Where is the evidence that Sanders was that hard of a puncher?

Larry Holmes took hard shots from many hard hitting fighters. Seldom was he decked.Only one other time close to his prime.

It's not always easier to KO a smaller man than a bigger man.You are way too concerned about size; at a certain point weight stops being an advantage; and at a certain point it becomes a liability.

[Cap]

Watch Shavers-Bugner again. Low blow and right uppercut put Bugner down. A clash of heads caused the cut that made an over-protective ring doctor tell the ref to stop the fight. Shavers did not knock Bugner out.

In a Sanders-Shavers fight, it all depends on the mental and physical condition of the two men. Both at peak, who knows. Watch cruiserweight Jerry Quarry beat up on Shavers. Sanders was no world-beater himself.

[Tuan_Jim]

I'll take Shavers getting stopped by a 100 Quarry shots over Sanders sparked cold by one punch from non-puncher Nate Tubbs.

Your description of Shavers/Bugner is so utterly unreal, so bigoted, so against any write up ever penned and so unlike what happened and is available for all to see makes it frightening that you are an editor. O, John Shep.

And when you're talking about a fight hanging on "the physical condition of both men" that eliminates Corrie Sanders immediately. When was that man ever in physical condition? Gassed by the midway point versus Rahman and Vitali. Would be forgivable if he came through a war or demonstrated something outside those two fights but he has nothing else at all on his record excepting his quickie versus Wladimir who has a glass chin.

Talk about stamina all you want with Shavers. 15 with Ali, 12 with Holmes, 10 with Tiger Williams - an utter brute who was so cursed in his career and nearly bounced Holmes. I would not put a penny on Sanders to survive Tiger Williams, given the Holmes and Shavers fights.