Roy Jones jr

[Woldemar]

Overrated or underrated?What did you think about him?

[Ezzard]

Hugely overrated.

[Syntax Error]

It's hard to say really, because for every fan that raves about him, you'll find another who says that he is chinny & ducked this & that fighter etc etc.

One thing that can be said without much certainty is that Jones Jr was supremely naturally talented & would have been a handful for any ATG in history.

[Tuan_Jim]

Hugely overrated but fun to watch in his day. The John Ruiz fight did amaze me, regardless of how bad Ruiz is. Pure speed & talent winning out over size & strength.

[elmersalsa]

I agree with Ezzard. The great RoyJones, Jr., was VERY OVERRATED.

In the other hand, his nemesis, the great Bernard Hopkins, is VERY UNDERRATED!

[Tomasino]

I agree with Ezzard. The great RoyJones, Jr., was VERY OVERRATED.

In the other hand, his nemesis, the great Bernard Hopkins, is VERY UNDERRATED!

Who wins, out of three fights, within 4 yrs of first fight?

[Broomhall]

I dont know really, a bit like Mayweather in that the multi title situation allowed him to be very picky and choosy and about who he fought and when he fought them, but on the flip side I do feel he had the skills and the athleticism to give any top light heavy in history a really hard fight and maybe beat several of them.

[Leonid]

Probably all talented and entertaining guys on a winning streak were overrated at the time, Roy Jones Jr being no exception. Currently there are different opinions of him, but I don't think he gets very overrated on average anymore.

[Othro]

I agree with Ezzard. The great RoyJones, Jr., was VERY OVERRATED.

In the other hand, his nemesis, the great Bernard Hopkins, is VERY UNDERRATED!

Who wins, out of three fights, within 4 yrs of first fight?

Roy Jones wins all 3

[HomicideHenry]

I believe Jones is over-rated. His skill-set was great, his era was average at best. His achievements overall must be considered 'nothing new' to boxing, and at the end of the day were no more better than those before and after him. The Ruiz fight is over-blown, because I would argue that the win over a top five heavyweight, was replicated dozens and dozens of times in past eras.

His rating overall as a LHW, I don't see him as a top 10. His rating as a P4P great, he doesn't make the top 50 as far as I am concerned. Maybe that is a bit harsh or a bit much... alot of people am sure will argue with me... but H2H do you see him beating the likes of Moore, Foster, Spinks, Conn, and Langford? Because I can't. So that takes him out of the top five, and one can argue he'd probably split wins against the likes of Fitzsimmons, O'Brien, Berlenbach, Loughran, Lewis, Maxim, etc. so I think that would put him under the top ten overall.

P4P (also) is such a mythical title, with no weight barriers and restrictions... and I can think of many ahead of him... Langford, Duran, Leonard, Armstrong, Fitzsimmons, Moore, Robinson, Gans, Greb, Charles, Holyfield, Burley, Walker, etc etc etc... Even this website doesn't list Roy Jones among the top 100 P4P fighters in history.*

*Yes, I am aware computer software systems are falsible and every year our information and technology gets greater, however as it stands Jones just doesn't match up to the all-time greats via computer.

[tiny_acres]

He was one of the most over rated fighters ever when he was still undefeated.
People dismiss him and his abilities now.So I see him as under rated now.

[Broomhall]

I think people are being harsh. Jones dominated his era, and yes he was picky about who he fought, but as with Mayweather, Jones could exploit the multi title situation.

He wasnt fighting thinking " how can I make the boxrec posters judge me as an all time great" He was fighting to make money and he used the system to his advantage-which was his job=to make as much money as possible as easily as possible.And any boxer past or present did the same. Louis had his bum of the month, Dempsey wouldnt fight black contenders-all boxers do what they can to keep the money coming in.

He was an Olympic Gold medalist (whatever the record books say) so ability wise he is up there with the best.

[Perseus]

I believe Jones is over-rated. His skill-set was great, his era was average at best. His achievements overall must be considered 'nothing new' to boxing, and at the end of the day were no more better than those before and after him. The Ruiz fight is over-blown, because I would argue that the win over a top five heavyweight, was replicated dozens and dozens of times in past eras.

His rating overall as a LHW, I don't see him as a top 10. His rating as a P4P great, he doesn't make the top 50 as far as I am concerned. Maybe that is a bit harsh or a bit much... alot of people am sure will argue with me... but H2H do you see him beating the likes of Moore, Foster, Spinks, Conn, and Langford? Because I can't. So that takes him out of the top five, and one can argue he'd probably split wins against the likes of Fitzsimmons, O'Brien, Berlenbach, Loughran, Lewis, Maxim, etc. so I think that would put him under the top ten overall.

P4P (also) is such a mythical title, with no weight barriers and restrictions... and I can think of many ahead of him... Langford, Duran, Leonard, Armstrong, Fitzsimmons, Moore, Robinson, Gans, Greb, Charles, Holyfield, Burley, Walker, etc etc etc... Even this website doesn't list Roy Jones among the top 100 P4P fighters in history.*

*Yes, I am aware computer software systems are falsible and every year our information and technology gets greater, however as it stands Jones just doesn't match up to the all-time greats via computer.

Ok, then.
The bolded statement got my interest.
I'm not questioning your knowledge I just wasn't aware that the Jones/Ruiz situation was so common.
Let's see that list of "dozens and dozens" who replicated what Jones did.

Replicating what Jones did means you have a list of over two dozen former middleweight titlists who stepped in the ring at 190lbs or greater and proceeded to dominate a top five natural heavyweight who was in his physical prime and had a 25+ lb weight advantage.

Don't bother listing any 176 lb "heavyweights" beating 180-200lb heavyweights. That's not even close to what Jones did.

You said replicated, that is what's interesting.
That means a former middleweight titlist that has bulked up 30+lbs and dominated a heavyweight that was 220-230lbs, in his physical prime and generally considered top five in the division.
That and pretty much nothing else would be replicating what Jones did.

"dozens and dozens"
That's at least 24 times somebody took that path.
I'm 46 and going on just memory have only seen that once.
James Toney came close but that was officially declared a no contest afterwards and he wasn't giving up as much weight as Jones did.

[HomicideHenry]

Lighter weight fighters beating light heavies and heavies are nothing new to boxing.

[Perseus]

Lighter weight fighters beating light heavies and heavies are nothing new to boxing.

So it shouldn't be a problem to provide the list I asked about.

Dozens and dozens of middleweight titlists packing on 30lb and dominating prime, top 5 rated heavyweights.

[man]

great, yet overrated.

[man]

Lighter weight fighters beating light heavies and heavies are nothing new to boxing.

So it shouldn't be a problem to provide the list I asked about.

Dozens and dozens of middleweight titlists packing on 30lb and dominating prime, top 5 rated heavyweights.

but in all fairness, there was a reason why
they picked ruiz and ruiz only. john ruiz is
probably nowhere near the top five in any
other era and only the combination of the
numerous belts and the weakest hw division
on history put him up there for a minute or
two.

[knockouts67]

Roy was over and underrated.....Great at his best.....Especially before he gained and lost all that weight---He was never the same again! Losing the way he has against mopes has hurt his legacy----The Tarver difficulties happened after he played serious games with weight---All in all he was an awesome fighter---amongst the best at middle, supermiddle, and lightheavy! I believe he had a lack of serious opposition at times which made him a little more dominant than he actually was! It is hard to rate him--at least it is for me----He could have fought with the best---Could he have beat the best---I cannot say!

[Perseus]

Lighter weight fighters beating light heavies and heavies are nothing new to boxing.

So it shouldn't be a problem to provide the list I asked about.

Dozens and dozens of middleweight titlists packing on 30lb and dominating prime, top 5 rated heavyweights.

but in all fairness, there was a reason why
they picked ruiz and ruiz only. john ruiz is
probably nowhere near the top five in any
other era and only the combination of the
numerous belts and the weakest hw division
on history put him up there for a minute or
two.

Of course they picked Ruiz for a reason.
ALL smaller guys with a choice do that.

"In all fairness" Jones didn't belong in the heavyweight division to begin with. With the help of a famous nutritionist(whose name escapes me the moment) his official weight was barely above the cruiser-weight limit at the time.
As you say "in all fairness" it's not Jones fault the heavyweight division of his time was weak.
It's not like Jones or any light-heavyweight was a viable opponent for the real champion at the time anyway. If there was ever a goal of fighting Lewis himself he had to first prove he could defeat a legit heavyweight.


Besides all that it's been stated that what Jones did has been done dozens and dozens of times.
What did Jones do?
He was a former middleweight titlist who later put on 30+ lbs, stepped in the ring with a prime, top 5 rated heavyweight and dominated him.

I'm still waiting to see these dozens and dozens of names who followed that same path.

[expe]

Bit overrated at times, but it's a waste of time rating him because his career is tainted by drugs.

[gregor]

Overrated in his prime, now I think a bit underrated as he keeps fighting (and losing).

I think his win over Ruiz is overrated though. It was one of the rare ocassions when the referee did proper job and actually forced Ruiz to box without usual wrestling and hugging.

[Ambling Alp II]

In response to Perseus:
Well as usual Homocide says things that are silly; though he never actually said the guy had to be a titlist.
However it is a deceiving that Jones beat a top 5 heavyweight. It wasn't his fault, that Ruiz probably wouldn't have been a top 5 heavyweight in a previous era, but it is still true that he didn't have to beat that good of a fighter.

The path that Jones took really was viable for most of boxing history. Before the 1980s, there wasn't even a Super Middleweight division. So if you were a middleweight, you had to stay that way or bulk up to light heavyweight. Most never bothered. It also wasn't worth it to try to beat a really good heavyweight. A top 5 HW in previous eras were much better than John Ruiz.

Jones, could gradually move up in weight classes and then take advantage of a weak HW era. It's not like he moved up from MW to fighting Ruiz overnight; he had not been a middleweight for 9 years when he fought Ruiz.

Having said all that, it was a nice win.

[Broomhall]

I just looked at his record again. Jones beat a lot of good fighters. And you know that win over Ruiz wasnt that bad. Ruiz was in good form, a win and a draw with Holyfield, a win over Kirk Johnson who was going well.

Ok Jones went up through the weights but I dont know many middleweight champs who went on to beat a top heavyweight. I cannot think of too many middleweights we think of as great who could have done this-LaMotta? Zale I dont think so. Hagler? I dont think so, Monzon? dont think so. Even the great Sugar Ray lost at light heavy.

[Syntax Error]

Every single elite fighter has been labelled overrated by somebody.

The only elite fighter that I have never seen written or heard spoken was overrated was Sugar Ray Robinson.

[man]

Of course they picked Ruiz for a reason.
ALL smaller guys with a choice do that.

"In all fairness" Jones didn't belong in the heavyweight division to begin with. With the help of a famous nutritionist(whose name escapes me the moment) his official weight was barely above the cruiser-weight limit at the time.
As you say "in all fairness" it's not Jones fault the heavyweight division of his time was weak.
It's not like Jones or any light-heavyweight was a viable opponent for the real champion at the time anyway. If there was ever a goal of fighting Lewis himself he had to first prove he could defeat a legit heavyweight.


Besides all that it's been stated that what Jones did has been done dozens and dozens of times.
What did Jones do?
He was a former middleweight titlist who later put on 30+ lbs, stepped in the ring with a prime, top 5 rated heavyweight and dominated him.

I'm still waiting to see these dozens and dozens of names who followed that same path.

homohenry (no pun intended, just find it funny) stated:

"Lighter weight fighters beating light heavies and heavies
are nothing new to boxing."

if you say very few people, definitely not dozens did
such thing in terms of titles, than you might be right
and still somewhat twist what henry IMHO tried to say.
since there was never before such situation of so many
belts available and hardly ever a belt holder as weak as
john ruiz. would marvin hagler have beaten the no 15
heavy weight of his time? i guess he could have …

for ruiz having good wins. yes he was a solid contender,
but his big wins were big names past prime and i doubt
he would have come even close to a title fight in any
other era.