Having the big amateur pedigree is overrated

[Counter-puncher]

He apparently (sorry to sound a little sceptical about it, not the first boxers visit to the hospital in which some doubt about it's validity has been made**) had surgery for a torn pec (how badly torn was never disclosed) 2 weeks after the Sprott fight.

** Mike Tyson's surgery for his knee post Danny Williams, David Haye's surgery recently, Andre Dirrell's neurological issues during the super 6's.

it was pretty damn obvious to anyone watching that Aud was boxing one-armed that night

[jameswilson]

He apparently (sorry to sound a little sceptical about it, not the first boxers visit to the hospital in which some doubt about it's validity has been made**) had surgery for a torn pec (how badly torn was never disclosed) 2 weeks after the Sprott fight.

** Mike Tyson's surgery for his knee post Danny Williams, David Haye's surgery recently, Andre Dirrell's neurological issues during the super 6's.

it was pretty damn obvious to anyone watching that Aud was boxing one-armed that night

Clearly not everyone.....

[stujones]

He apparently (sorry to sound a little sceptical about it, not the first boxers visit to the hospital in which some doubt about it's validity has been made**) had surgery for a torn pec (how badly torn was never disclosed) 2 weeks after the Sprott fight.

** Mike Tyson's surgery for his knee post Danny Williams, David Haye's surgery recently, Andre Dirrell's neurological issues during the super 6's.

it was pretty damn obvious to anyone watching that Aud was boxing one-armed that night

Clev was one handed against Bellew so much so that everyone was saying he clearly had an injury during the fight. 3 days after the fight it becomes disclosed that he had an injury, but non disclosed its severity.

Johnny Tapia and Evander Holyfield have apparently GONE into fights with torn rotator cuffs (how they passed medicals is a different topic) but fought like two handed fighters.

No doubting Clev and Audley had some injury, how severe we don't know. Clearly his injury wasn't as severe as Danny Williams's vs Potter - in which his arm was hanging off. Audley was capable of moving the right to defend himself and even switched stance to throw a "measuring stick" type jab with the right. If the pec had been completely torn or he had a shoulder dislocation then he would not be capable of doing this no matter how tough he was. Audley was less one handed than Clev, not saying he was less injured - but clearly his injury wasn't as serious as a shoulder dislocation.

My comments on Tyson, Haye and Dirrel are just comments that were made on this forum. IMO clearly Tyson and Haye had injuries, Dirrell not so sure about.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

He apparently (sorry to sound a little sceptical about it, not the first boxers visit to the hospital in which some doubt about it's validity has been made**) had surgery for a torn pec (how badly torn was never disclosed) 2 weeks after the Sprott fight.

** Mike Tyson's surgery for his knee post Danny Williams, David Haye's surgery recently, Andre Dirrell's neurological issues during the super 6's.

it was pretty damn obvious to anyone watching that Aud was boxing one-armed that night

Clev was one handed against Bellew so much so that everyone was saying he clearly had an injury during the fight. 3 days after the fight it becomes disclosed that he had an injury, but non disclosed its severity.

Johnny Tapia and Evander Holyfield have apparently GONE into fights with torn rotator cuffs (how they passed medicals is a different topic) but fought like two handed fighters.

No doubting Clev and Audley had some injury, how severe we don't know. Clearly his injury wasn't as severe as Danny Williams's vs Potter - in which his arm was hanging off. Audley was capable of moving the right to defend himself and even switched stance to throw a "measuring stick" type jab with the right. If the pec had been completely torn or he had a shoulder dislocation then he would not be capable of doing this no matter how tough he was. Audley was less one handed than Clev, not saying he was less injured - but clearly his injury wasn't as serious as a shoulder dislocation.

My comments on Tyson, Haye and Dirrel are just comments that were made on this forum. IMO clearly Tyson and Haye had injuries, Dirrell not so sure about.

We are getting away from the original point being made Stu, which is Audley's lack of toughness, do you think he is 'not tough'?

[stujones]

Without sounding cliched, any person who steps into the ring is tough.... any fighter who elects to comeback after being KO'd heavily is tough.

BUT, I think Audley always had a fear of taking a shot which was a huge downfall of his. Don't want to do him any disservice though, Wlad Klitchsko has the same fears IMO, but just a bit more skilled and used these fear to actually become a better fighter.

Going to be controvesial, any expecting a linching, but Johnny Nelson was also the same IMO.

I think there is a difference between being tough and having fear. For example, it might be said that Vitali had less fear about taking shots or standing up and just fighting against opponents than Wlad, but it was Vitali who quit on his stool with an injury.

I wouldn't though cite the Sprott fight as an example of Audley's toughness because the severity of the injury was never disclosed. I think most fighters would have done the same, occupational hazzard. Using Clev (as its more recent) as an example, did he show remarkable toughness to survive 12 rounds "one handed" against Bellew, or could he have gritted his teeth a bit more and fought two handed.

[Rexob]

A lot of boxing fans and pundits are brain washed that being a top class amateur means top class pro, I think it's a very overrated theory. You look at frankie gavin ranked number one in the world yet couldn't beat a 40 year old Bundu who keith Thurman then whitewashes , also thomas stalker was number 3 in the world and has been a flop, courtney fry was European silva and comenwealth gold medalist he done nothing as a pro, tony Thompson took boxing up at 27 had 12 amateurs fights he beat brilliant amateurs david price and solis, people are buying to much into this top class amateur boxer means brilliant pro. Don't be brainwashed it means nothing

It's definitely easier for heavyweights to be better pro's without to much amature experience, not to sure about the lower weights, you get a few who do, but in general top amatures are usually up near the top in the pro ranks.

[Broomhall]

Without sounding cliched, any person who steps into the ring is tough.... any fighter who elects to comeback after being KO'd heavily is tough.

BUT, I think Audley always had a fear of taking a shot which was a huge downfall of his. Don't want to do him any disservice though, Wlad Klitchsko has the same fears IMO, but just a bit more skilled and used these fear to actually become a better fighter.

Going to be controvesial, any expecting a linching, but Johnny Nelson was also the same IMO.

I think there is a difference between being tough and having fear. For example, it might be said that Vitali had less fear about taking shots or standing up and just fighting against opponents than Wlad, but it was Vitali who quit on his stool with an injury.

I wouldn't though cite the Sprott fight as an example of Audley's toughness because the severity of the injury was never disclosed. I think most fighters would have done the same, occupational hazzard. Using Clev (as its more recent) as an example, did he show remarkable toughness to survive 12 rounds "one handed" against Bellew, or could he have gritted his teeth a bit more and fought two handed.

I would agree on most things apart from the "any fighter who steps in the ring is tough"-I have known plenty bottle jobs to box-myself included in that, I think most 12 year old girls would beat me in a street fight. The ring is a relatively safe place to fight imo.

Against most peoples opinion I would say Haye showed bravery going through 12 rounds with Klitchko with a broken toe, the pain of which would have been excruciating. Most people are very dismissive of this. But in a game where concentration is vital any pain like this would be very difficult to deal with.

[stujones]

Broomhall, I was going to mention Haye - gets laughed about and not often cited as an example of bravery or toughness - but was it.

I guess the final outcome influences the perception. Would Audley been "so tough" had Sprott not fought like an idiot in the last round and coasted to the decision win? Dean Francis goes 12 rounds and beats (in most people's opinion) Matthew Barney in a British title fight.... doesn't get cited as an act of bravery as much as Danny Williams' KO win (yet he went more rounds with the dislocation than Danny).