Ezzard wrote:Boxing fans have changed since I first started watching the sport. These days fans seem to go for celebrity rather than match up. They prefer to watch a superstar against anybody than two evenly matched fighters...or perhaps what I mean is they don't seem to care that the stars don't take on the best available opposition.
Theres more dynamics in play these days than in the past. I think fans have accepted that as a reality to not just bitch all day like a grumpy old man boxing fan lol.
Put Ali or Ray Leonard in todays level of corruption, promoters, TV options & etc. & I think their resumes get weakened severely.
Boxing Prospect wrote:Haymon has run a ponzi scheme of sorts and it is crumbling.
Whats crumbling exactly? Sounds like Al is moving in on taking over NBC Sports & perhaps some new sorta boxing layout that could change the status quo. The latter is obviously more iffy, but mainly I don't see any cracks in whatever Al is doing.
Nobody watches NBC Sports man. Haymon has already burned bridges with HBO, and Showtime cant be happy with the sh1t theyre getting. This fcuker has the biggest stable in boxing and we get Barthelemy Saucedo and all the other dreck. Quillin passing on 3x career high and dropping belt cause Haymon burned bridges with Jay Z. Stevenson vs stiff just got 320k viewers, thats pathetic. And the Floyd deal has pretty much been a flop, with 3/4 fights money losers.
I still don't see crumbling here. I see questionable decisions or bad decisions at worst (the Peter situation is the one I can't even rationally look at from Al's & Peter's pov & see the plus side of that decision). If Al starts having Danny Garcia vs Lamont Peterson level fights on NBC Sports, as some are speculating (& this is really the problem with anything Al related as the level of speculation on his "evil deeds" are off the charts lol) I'm sure your opinion of the sky is falling for Al will be changing drastically.
Ezzard wrote:Boxing fans have changed since I first started watching the sport. These days fans seem to go for celebrity rather than match up. They prefer to watch a superstar against anybody than two evenly matched fighters...or perhaps what I mean is they don't seem to care that the stars don't take on the best available opposition.
Theres more dynamics in play these days than in the past. I think fans have accepted that as a reality to not just bitch all day like a grumpy old man boxing fan lol.
Put Ali or Ray Leonard in todays level of corruption, promoters, TV options & etc. & I think their resumes get weakened severely.
Ali and Ray's careers and stardom helped bring about today's troubles. The millions of casual fans just wanted to see them fight and win...sport was secondary. Leonard really looked to load the dice in his comeback and was allowed to get away with it. Jones jr and Floyd have taken this to a whole new level.
But come on...to not moan about it is not to care...
For all the talk of Heymon doing right by his fighters, he had Peter Quillin turn down a career-high $1.4m for a very winnable fight against Korobov, and he's now been sitting on the shelf for 9 months with no fight in sight.
Ezzard wrote:Boxing fans have changed since I first started watching the sport. These days fans seem to go for celebrity rather than match up. They prefer to watch a superstar against anybody than two evenly matched fighters...or perhaps what I mean is they don't seem to care that the stars don't take on the best available opposition.
Theres more dynamics in play these days than in the past. I think fans have accepted that as a reality to not just bitch all day like a grumpy old man boxing fan lol.
Put Ali or Ray Leonard in todays level of corruption, promoters, TV options & etc. & I think their resumes get weakened severely.
Ali and Ray's careers and stardom helped bring about today's troubles. The millions of casual fans just wanted to see them fight and win...sport was secondary. Leonard really looked to load the dice in his comeback and was allowed to get away with it. Jones jr and Floyd have taken this to a whole new level.
But come on...to not moan about it is not to care...
Yea I suppose you are right.
Idk about that not caring thing. I think at a certain point its like a guy bitching about smartphones. The abc orgs are here to stay. The hustling, re-sign with me so I can make this big fight or I'm sitting on your contract for a year, promoters are here to stay. The HBO's & Showtime's basically working as promoters are here to stay. So many things are just part of how things work nowadays. I think its definitely played a part in fans drifting away from the sport & boxing going lower on the popular sports list (for the US anyway). Maybe at some point there is some light at the end of the tunnel. I certainly don't see it yet. And to run with the analogy at the beginning of my post til I do I'm going to keep using my smartphone & I'll fistbump all you guys with your flip phones or home phones as a show of support, but I'd rather live in the reality of now then being hopeful of something that isn't showing any signs of coming back.
fergusg wrote:The only reason why people consider Al Haymon a suspicious character is because of his flat-refusal to talk to the media.
The reason for him acquiring such a massive stable of fighters is due to the fact he makes sure they're paid handsomely for their services, their careers are protected and that they are given title opportunities, which explains why he often receives glowing tributes from the men under his care.
For sure, their are some dodgy decision-making going on, such as Haymon turning down huge sums of money on his fighters' behalf due to his constant refusal to work with HBO, Top Rank, Main Events and Roc Nation, but we as fight fans are only ever given one side of the story (as Al doesn't talk to the media).
Therefore, I won't judge Haymon's character either until we know more about him as a person or until his NBC master plan has been unveiled.
This rat Haymon wont talk to media because he has a lot to hide. He's a fight fixer (Floyd-Canelo, Wilder-Scott) and he wants to run the sport. He's a megalomaniac control freak. Worst thing to ever happen to boxing. Refuses to risk his key fighters against top opposition (protected Adonis from Kovalev, Quillin from Korobov, Wilder from everyone, Mitchell from everyone, Berto from Aydin, Floyd from Pac, Williams, Margarito, GGG), Al Haymon is a fight fixing fraud who could care less about fans or making the best fights, he only cares about controlling the sport and increasing his leverage. And he knows the best way to do that is to protect Floyd from ever losing and that's why he will never let Floyd fight Pacquiao. TRUTH. FACTS.
fergusg wrote:The only reason why people consider Al Haymon a suspicious character is because of his flat-refusal to talk to the media.
The reason for him acquiring such a massive stable of fighters is due to the fact he makes sure they're paid handsomely for their services, their careers are protected and that they are given title opportunities, which explains why he often receives glowing tributes from the men under his care.
For sure, their are some dodgy decision-making going on, such as Haymon turning down huge sums of money on his fighters' behalf due to his constant refusal to work with HBO, Top Rank, Main Events and Roc Nation, but we as fight fans are only ever given one side of the story (as Al doesn't talk to the media).
Therefore, I won't judge Haymon's character either until we know more about him as a person or until his NBC master plan has been unveiled.
This rat Haymon wont talk to media because he has a lot to hide. He's a fight fixer (Floyd-Canelo, Wilder-Scott) and he wants to run the sport. He's a megalomaniac control freak. Worst thing to ever happen to boxing. Refuses to risk his key fighters against top opposition (protected Adonis from Kovalev, Quillin from Korobov, Wilder from everyone, Mitchell from everyone, Berto from Aydin, Floyd from Pac, Williams, Margarito, GGG), Al Haymon is a fight fixing fraud who could care less about fans or making the best fights, he only cares about controlling the sport and increasing his leverage. And he knows the best way to do that is to protect Floyd from ever losing and that's why he will never let Floyd fight Pacquiao. TRUTH. FACTS.
montrealsuper wrote:This rat Haymon wont talk to media because he has a lot to hide. He's a fight fixer (Floyd-Canelo, Wilder-Scott) and he wants to run the sport. He's a megalomaniac control freak. Worst thing to ever happen to boxing. Refuses to risk his key fighters against top opposition (protected Adonis from Kovalev, Quillin from Korobov, Wilder from everyone, Mitchell from everyone, Berto from Aydin, Floyd from Pac, Williams, Margarito, GGG), Al Haymon is a fight fixing fraud who could care less about fans or making the best fights, he only cares about controlling the sport and increasing his leverage. And he knows the best way to do that is to protect Floyd from ever losing and that's why he will never let Floyd fight Pacquiao. TRUTH. FACTS.
Oh boy. Make sure you take your medicine today, okay?
matador wrote:To my knowledge, Al Haymon has the majority of today's top boxers under contract and he's managed to match them very softly on HBO and Showtime for big purses. How is this working? Why do the premium networks accept his terms and how is he able to generate enough money to overpay his fighters time after time? I'm well aware that Haymon is one of the most influential men in boxing but I don't understand how he got there and how he's able to rake in tons of money and overpay his fighters while putting up some of the shittiest fights in decades.
Al Haymon summary - High business IQ. Excellent interpersonal communications. Likely adept at chess.
montrealsuper wrote:Malignaggi told us "Al Haymon can manipulate anything, what Al Haymon wants Al Haymon gets."
Al Haymon = Vince McMahon
You gotta take your medicine bro. I know you don't like it, but you know what happens if you don't take it. You get "cranky" & we gotta take you to the hospital. You don't wanna go to the hospital do you?
fergusg wrote:The only reason why people consider Al Haymon a suspicious character is because of his flat-refusal to talk to the media.
And because he's black. Don't forget a lot of it has to do with race. That's also the reason he also gets compared to Don King despite the fact there are no similarities besides race. Arum gets a pass even though he's just as crooked as King.
fergusg wrote:The only reason why people consider Al Haymon a suspicious character is because of his flat-refusal to talk to the media.
And because he's black. Don't forget a lot of it has to do with race. That's also the reason he also gets compared to Don King despite the fact there are no similarities besides race. Arum gets a pass even though he's just as crooked as King.
Yeah Arum sure does get a pass! I've never read people say things like "Boxing will be better when when Arum is dead"
fergusg wrote:The only reason why people consider Al Haymon a suspicious character is because of his flat-refusal to talk to the media.
And because he's black. Don't forget a lot of it has to do with race. That's also the reason he also gets compared to Don King despite the fact there are no similarities besides race. Arum gets a pass even though he's just as crooked as King.
Yeah Arum sure does get a pass! I've never read people say things like "Boxing will be better when when Arum is dead"
Arum never has blocked the super fights fans want to see. He's made many with rival promoters - Tito-Oscar, SRL-MMH, etc. Name one he blocked. He never blocked Pac-Floyd, it's always been Floyd as the excuse maker or making fake or absurd offers like zero PPV to Pac. It's Floyd ducking now, just like always.
Haymon has protected Quillin from Korobev, Berto from Cintron, Aydin. Wilder from everyone. Floyd from Margarito, Cotto in 08, Williams, GGG, Pacquiao. Stevenson from Kovalev. You can't name one fighter Arum has protected or sheltered from a major fight. Not one.
ReggieDiggs wrote:Wait. Is that NBC NBC or NBC Sports?
Good old regular NBC...yes boxing is back on the network
Oh sh!t. I thought this Al thing was with NBC Sports. I am impressed with this move. Thats mfing crazy. Maybe Al does have naked pics of some important people f#cking farm animals.
fergusg wrote:The only reason why people consider Al Haymon a suspicious character is because of his flat-refusal to talk to the media.
And because he's black. Don't forget a lot of it has to do with race. That's also the reason he also gets compared to Don King despite the fact there are no similarities besides race. Arum gets a pass even though he's just as crooked as King.
Beg to differ. I think it's more than just a matter of color. Arum gets a pass because he is a slick-talking Harvard-educated attorney. King is a reformed street thug. In my experience, most slick-talking attorneys are about as trustworthy as street thugs...reformed or not. and I agree with fergusg that Haymon dodging the media has far more to do with being "suspicious" than the fact that he is black.
Haymon is also Ivy league educated, he's not a street thug. Why does he always get compared to King?
fergusg wrote:The only reason why people consider Al Haymon a suspicious character is because of his flat-refusal to talk to the media.
And because he's black. Don't forget a lot of it has to do with race. That's also the reason he also gets compared to Don King despite the fact there are no similarities besides race. Arum gets a pass even though he's just as crooked as King.
Yeah Arum sure does get a pass! I've never read people say things like "Boxing will be better when when Arum is dead"
I never hear people talk about how many boxers he's robbed. He's robbed Floyd and De LA Hoya and is still running GBP by not paying full royalties from Manny's fight. It's amazing to me that Floyd gets so much hate for refusing to deal with a crook who had robbed him in the past.
I haven't noted that he's compared to King to a far greater extend than someone like Arum. I searched 'Haymon' and the seven threads with that in their titles contained no comparisons to King other than one that made the same comparison of Arum, and I checked the first five threads in which 'Haymon' appeared only outside the title and there were no King comparisons. I also see ample criticism, digs, and vitriol directed towards Arum, so I don't see how he gets a free pass.
Haymon being black could be related to some comparisons to King, but I think his reticence is a much bigger factor in the negative attention he receives. When someone with his stable of high-profile fighters, tremendous influence, and seemingly lofty but unclear business plans remains silent, I think many see that as shady and hence associate Haymon with others who have the same reputation, whether King or Arum, whom I recall seeing compared to each other at least as regularly as I have King with Haymon.
Last edited by crusader on 05 Jan 2015, 21:13, edited 2 times in total.
Haymon is a very shrewd character. He has found a position to enable him to act as a manager and promoter by being outside of the commission's rulebook as an "advisor". He takes a little tiny cut, or maybe none at all. So where does he make his money?
He makes it by being the facilitator of the fight. He goes directly to the money source, the heads of the networks, and negotiates a deal for, say $1.5 million. Then he goes to a promoter and says we got $1 million for the show. You pay the fighters $750k and keep the difference plus whatever else you can make.
They all know the game that's being played, but they don't complain because Al just got them a couple hundred grand more than they could have gotten themselves because of his leverage with Floyd and his cadre of fighters. The promoters are happy. The managers are happy. And the fighters are really happy. Who in their right mind would complain about getting dollars for bums.
But the one camp that's getting shafted big time is the networks. HBO already told Al and Floyd to take a fornicating hike. Now SHO is about to do the same after checking their coffers and finding it looted with no serious ratings bonanza to show for it.
Clever Al, already anticipating the fallout, had been negotiating with NBC all along. But the weird thing is that he actually paid NBC millions to get those 20 odd dates for the year. Normally, the commercial networks pay the promoters for broadcast rights, but they stopped doing that after advertisers refused to sponsor boxing because they were switching to programs with heavy female viewership. Which is why there's hardly been any fights on free TV for a couple decades.
So, once again, where is Al Haymon making money? Well, maybe he doesn't intend to make money with NBC. Maybe he's investing in heavy exposure for his stable so they can make money on PPVs later. But according to promoter Kathy Duva who was doing shows on NBC until just now, she heard that Haymon is not going to do PPVs either, but was in negotiations with some unknown broadcast outlet.
My guess is it must be one of the new internet based TV channels like Netflix and iTV. They'll be willing to hand out large amounts of cash to secure topnotch sports programming to enlarge their audience, just like HBO and SHO did Except as startups, it'll be that much more. Obviously, it's been in the works for a couple years. But with this tightly knit Ivy League guys, it is not surprising at all.
