Froch and the IBF

[magnus]

I have a question (I genuinely don't know the answer, this isn't a dig at anyone): why is it that Jamie McDonnell (who won the vacant title in May 2013) was stripped of his title for failing to defend/agree a defence against the mandatory contender by Autumn 2013 (wasn't it in October?), yet Carl Froch last defended in May 2014 and hasn't arranged a fight with Degale yet remains champion?

Is there some subtle difference between the two examples that I'm not aware of? I suspect this will be the case....

[ste1983]

I have a question (I genuinely don't know the answer, this isn't a dig at anyone): why is it that Jamie McDonnell (who won the vacant title in May 2013) was stripped of his title for failing to defend/agree a defence against the mandatory contender by Autumn 2013 (wasn't it in October?), yet Carl Froch last defended in May 2014 and hasn't arranged a fight with Degale yet remains champion?

Is there some subtle difference between the two examples that I'm not aware of? I suspect this will be the case....

IBF sent letters out 31st December calling for him v Degale, they have 30days to agree terms or it goes to purse bids. Not sure how long that process takes but I'd imagine there would then be a period for the fight between Froch Degale and the winning bidder to be signed if not he would then be stripped.

Should just vacate and let Degale fight for it hes got no interest in defending against James.

[magnus]

Thanks mate. I kind of remember that McDonnell had to arrange something within 90 days of winning the title though? Or was the second Groves defence classed as a mandatory, hence the longer window?

[Crease]

The IBF have been taking an inconsistent approach throughout recent years... Especially toward British fighters.

1. When Peterson was proven to be taking Synthetic Testosterone, the IBF did not strip him of their Light Welterweight Title. As far as I can remember, they never actually did anything to penalize Peterson for this. And they just allowed him to continue as their Champion.

2. In the Super Bantamweight division, the IBF have repeatedly allowed fighters to sidestep Carl Frampton.
A. Frampton beat Martinez to become European Champion and become their mandatory challenger, they allowed Martinez to step in and challenge for their World Title (which he won).
They then sanctioned two voluntary title defenses ahead of Frampton... Then, when Frampton does win the Title, they order an immediate Mandatory Title defense against an opponent ranked in the top 5 of the world.
It makes you wonder how that can be so lenient with one Champion, and yet so strict with another?

[Parson Cross]

On the money TD.
When are you all going to realise its all about the sanction fees.

[magnus]

Thanks all, it's a bit clearer now.

They're not get to get any sanctioning fee from Froch now are they, but I suppose they are just crossing their fingers and hoping the Chavez Jnr fight doesn't get made, and Froch-Degale does.

[Coco]

Poor Freeman Barr

[expe]

The IBF have been taking an inconsistent approach throughout recent years... Especially toward British fighters.

1. When Peterson was proven to be taking Synthetic Testosterone, the IBF did not strip him of their Light Welterweight Title. As far as I can remember, they never actually did anything to penalize Peterson for this. And they just allowed him to continue as their Champion.

2. In the Super Bantamweight division, the IBF have repeatedly allowed fighters to sidestep Carl Frampton.
A. Frampton beat Martinez to become European Champion and become their mandatory challenger, they allowed Martinez to step in and challenge for their World Title (which he won).
They then sanctioned two voluntary title defenses ahead of Frampton... Then, when Frampton does win the Title, they order an immediate Mandatory Title defense against an opponent ranked in the top 5 of the world.
It makes you wonder how that can be so lenient with one Champion, and yet so strict with another?

Thought Frampton's final eliminator was against Parodi?

Then they went down the WBC route, so they lost the IBF mandatory, brought Kiko over as a voluntary. The mandatory is overdue, it's supposed to be every 9 months and the last one was when Martinez fought Mathebula in December 2013, if they were to follow that to the letter, Frampton wouldn't be world champion right now.

[dr_devious]

Isn't Andre Dirrell the number 2 IBF contender at Super Middle? If Carl does vacate that would make a vacant title match for De Gale vs the better Dirrell an extremely difficult ask

[danamba7]

Isn't Andre Dirrell the number 2 IBF contender at Super Middle? If Carl does vacate that would make a vacant title match for De Gale vs the better Dirrell an extremely difficult ask

I believe so, would be in the US as well because Dirrell would never fight over here again.

[jameswilson]

Isn't Andre Dirrell the number 2 IBF contender at Super Middle? If Carl does vacate that would make a vacant title match for De Gale vs the better Dirrell an extremely difficult ask

I believe so, would be in the US as well because Dirrell would never fight over here again.

So if Matchroom win the purse bid then Dirrell would just give up his position as challenger......

[danamba7]

Isn't Andre Dirrell the number 2 IBF contender at Super Middle? If Carl does vacate that would make a vacant title match for De Gale vs the better Dirrell an extremely difficult ask

I believe so, would be in the US as well because Dirrell would never fight over here again.

So if Matchroom win the purse bid then Dirrell would just give up his position as challenger......

It's a strange one because it's not a massive fight over here or over there so would be interesting to see how it pans out. But yeah if Eddie got the fight over in the UK, Dirrell would be wise to go back on his word.

[freddydoesdallas]

danamba7, Hearn could definitely make a match between DeGale & Dirrell sell. DeGale will be the first boxer to win Olympic gold and a major world title (i know this is a very loaded term these days). Sky will be all over that, DeGale will be on his best, patriotic behaviour, a guard of honour will be formed by all previous British fighters who have won Olympic Gold, Lewis will be in the corner, Queen will perform the national anthem etc etc.

Might have gone a bit OTT there but it can be an event, especially with a good undercard. Could even try and time it around the arrival of the new 'royal'

[danamba7]

danamba7, Hearn could definitely make a match between DeGale & Dirrell sell. DeGale will be the first boxer to win Olympic gold and a major world title (i know this is a very loaded term these days). Sky will be all over that, DeGale will be on his best, patriotic behaviour, a guard of honour will be formed by all previous British fighters who have won Olympic Gold, Lewis will be in the corner, Queen will perform the national anthem etc etc.

Might have gone a bit OTT there but it can be an event, especially with a good undercard. Could even try and time it around the arrival of the new 'royal'

True. The more big fights in the UK the better so I wouldn't be complaining even if it was over the top. Dirrell may just have to eat his words.

[freddydoesdallas]

Oh definitely. Like any good fighter though, he can be talked round with a nice purse

[Parson Cross]

If that scenario occurs Dirrell will take step aside money and the IBF will love that.
All about the sanction fee.

[Gaz_73]

If that scenario occurs Dirrell will take step aside money and the IBF will love that.

All about the sanction fee.

"Hey. Did someone just say interim........"

[keirw]

Isn't Andre Dirrell the number 2 contender at Super Middle? If Carl does vacate that would make a vacant title match for De Gale vs the better Dirrell an extremely difficult ask

I believe so, would be in the US as well because Dirrell would never fight over here again.

So if Matchroom win the purse bid then Dirrell would just give up his position as challenger......

It will be interesting to see if that happens, Rocky Fielding is ranked in the top ten by the IBF, I imagine Eddie will try his hardest to set up an all matchroom world title title fight.

[deadpan]

Poor Freeman Barr

Immaculate.

[Crease]

There's a couple of point there that are not accurate.

Thought Frampton's final eliminator was against Parodi?

Yeah, they ordered Frampton to have a second eliminator, his first victory over Martinez was a title eliminator... But it is unusual to see a boxer having to go through two title eliminators these days?

Then they went down the WBC route, so they lost the IBF mandatory, brought Kiko over as a voluntary. The mandatory is overdue, it's supposed to be every 9 months and the last one was when Martinez fought Mathebula in December 2013, if they were to follow that to the letter, Frampton wouldn't be world champion right now.

That not accurate. Martinez vs Mathebula was NOT as mandatory. Mathebula was a voluntary title defense for Romero, but he got injured leading up to the fight and for some strange reason, the IBF allowed Martinez to fight for their World Title rather than the actual mandatory challenger (Carl Frampton) - and that was as far back as August 2013.

Then the IBF allowed Martinez to voluntary defend against Mathebula (and how he got in the cue ahead of Frampton remains a mystery)... And after that, the IBF then allowed Martinez a second voluntary title defense against Hasegawa. So once again, Carl was side-stepped - bearing that in mind, can you blame him for looking at alternative routes to other World Titles?

Then they went down the WBC route, so they lost the IBF mandatory

Are you aware that fighter is able to be the number one contender for more than one World Title? Carl was the mandatory for both the WBC & IBF after he beat Cazares.

And if you want to count:

The mandatory is overdue, it's supposed to be every 9 months and the last one was when Martinez fought Mathebula in December 2013, if they were to follow that to the letter, Frampton wouldn't be world champion right now.

Frampton himself was a mandatory title defense, so if you count nine months back from September, then he should be freed up until June 2015.

[expe]

2 eliminators is normal with the IBF, one for the #2 spot, then a final eliminator to become mandatory.

Mathebula-Ndlovu was a final eliminator, god knows how but the IBF can get a bit weird with South Africans. Frampton only became mandatory in October 2013, so he can't have been mandatory in August 2013. So Martinez's defence against Mathebula was his mandatory, Hasegawa was his first voluntary.

Sanctioning bodies usually remove a fighter from their rankings if they fight an eliminator or for the title of another organisation.

Frampton was a voluntary for Martinez, they paid him to come over, Avalos was mandatory and stepped aside.

Looking back at the IBF rankings, Frampton's first fight with Martinez wasn't an eliminator, Parodi was the first eliminator, so he was ranked 2 at the time and was never mandatory for the IBF.

[Crease]

I could respond. But I think that we'll go around in circles on this.

[expe]

I could respond. But I think that we'll go around in circles on this.

Fair enough, I've checked IBF rankings, they make it easy because if a fighters mandatory for the title, they're #1 ranked with them, Frampton never has been.

[Sklar]

I thought the plan was for Froch to vacate?

[Crease]

Fair enough, I've checked IBF rankings, they make it easy because if a fighters mandatory for the title, they're #1 ranked with them, Frampton never has been.

Yes, he was. I might go back and see if I can find the first Frampton vs Martinez fight with English commentary because I'm pretty sure that it was a title eliminator for a shot against the (then) IBF Champ, Romero.