Might we all be missing the point?

[beatdown337]

There's been lots of talk about Al Haymon and his perceived negative impact on the sport of boxing. At the moment im not sure whether he's a positive or negative, what I do know is that I enjoy seeing good fighters compete on quality cards. So consider this....

Al Haymon has approximately 140 fighters under contract and is heavily rumored to be trying to make a move to nbc sports. What if this past year has been more about buying time and setting himself up? Having boxing on national tv is going to require some major ratings to even make it worth a major networks time and interest. But maybe that pressure will be the best thing for us as fans. Imagine what it could mean if guys in his stable HAVE to fight each other because now the ratings are dependent on it. This whole time when guys have been vacating belts, taking "tune up" fights.... What the hell are they tuning up for? Could it possibly be that they didn't want to waste a great show being promoted under a golden boy banner? Most of the guys at the top of the divisions are managed by this guy and its hard to argue with seeing what could potentially be great fights on regular television.

[ReggieDiggs]

This is a solid assessment of what could be going on. The thing is boxing fans got the memory of a retarded fly. So most of the people making more negative assessments than you will quickly change their tune should Al start doing some good things with NBC Sports.

I think the worst crime Al has committed is being associated with Floyd. If Al was just some manager with a bunch of guys, none of them named Floyd Mayweather, I think probably 10% (max) of the people who use his name today would be using his name. That being the case, Al could write a new Muhammad Ali act thats 1000 times better than the original, get drug testing done across the board & get the abc orgs out of the game & some people would still sh!t on Al like they sh!t on Richard, Leonard Ellerbe, Ishe Smith, any TMT member really & even Oscar before he went rogue on Floyd over the May 2 date just due to residual Floyd hate.

[jujigatame]

I think the worst crime Al has committed is being associated with Floyd.

I think it's more that he convinced Showtime to put some absolute dreck on TV by enticing them with fights like Garcia/Peterson and Broner/Matthysse, which have subsequently failed to materialize.

[ReggieDiggs]

I think the worst crime Al has committed is being associated with Floyd.

I think it's more that he convinced Showtime to put some absolute dreck on TV by enticing them with fights like Garcia/Peterson and Broner/Matthysse, which have subsequently failed to materialize.

I don't think anyone knows who manages those guys if not for Al's connection with Floyd is what I'm saying. Who was managing Tim Bradley when he was fighting ancient Joel Casamayor for a few million? You might know that, but I'm guessing most don't. There are tons of bs fights out there without a backstory cuz it isn't even possible cuz no one knows who's with who.

[beatdown337]

I think the worst crime Al has committed is being associated with Floyd.

I think it's more that he convinced Showtime to put some absolute dreck on TV by enticing them with fights like Garcia/Peterson and Broner/Matthysse, which have subsequently failed to materialize.

I agree that to a large portion of the fan base this would be the biggest issue. But it almost would make sense if he sort of "hinted" at these prospective bouts by putting certain fighters on the same card but not against one another. Naturally as fans we compare them. If he's then able to take these fights that interest us as hardcore fans and provide them on mainstream television, he hits the jackpot THE CASUAL FAN. If fighters that we know and talk about everyday become household names, I don't think its strange to say that even more fighters will run towards Haymon for their chance at stardom.

Once again a lot of prospective and "ifs" in what im saying but I think you get the point.

[KBB]

There's been lots of talk about Al Haymon and his perceived negative impact on the sport of boxing. At the moment im not sure whether he's a positive or negative, what I do know is that I enjoy seeing good fighters compete on quality cards. So consider this....

Al Haymon has approximately 140 fighters under contract and is heavily rumored to be trying to make a move to nbc sports. What if this past year has been more about buying time and setting himself up? Having boxing on national tv is going to require some major ratings to even make it worth a major networks time and interest. But maybe that pressure will be the best thing for us as fans. Imagine what it could mean if guys in his stable HAVE to fight each other because now the ratings are dependent on it. This whole time when guys have been vacating belts, taking "tune up" fights.... What the hell are they tuning up for? Could it possibly be that they didn't want to waste a great show being promoted under a golden boy banner? Most of the guys at the top of the divisions are managed by this guy and its hard to argue with seeing what could potentially be great fights on regular television.

Great analysis of what could very well be the situation, but what I've heard is that Haymon intends to start these bouts of his out on CBS with some low level fighters and slowly build up to putting on the more popular fighters in his stable. I don't exactly recall where I heard it but I'm sure I've read it or heard it somewhere before.

I'm hoping that it isn't the case that he will bring us a bunch of nobodies even though it will be for free, anyone who listens to Jim Lampley's Fight Game Show won't be so thoroughly convinced that what you stated above is where this is headed because if you listen to Lampley you'd swear that Haymon was the Devil and Bob Arum is Jesus and we know that ain't nowhere near the truth.

[Tarkus]

What if someone comes to your house and starts slaughtering your family. Who knows maybe he is leading you all to heaven, you should consider letting him.

The fact demonstrated by his actions is that he is monopolist with disdain for competitive structure of the sport. If he gets his way boxing will be a divided world of cherry picked showcase fights with no credible champions and further diluted championship structure. You can see ABC organizations fighting back already. Lets see how far he can go without belts on his rooster. Although nothing stops him making his own sanctioning organization. Dumb boxing fans will swallow everything.

[KBB]

It's funny how people come here and shoot down Haymon who has only been behind the scenes mostly until recently but say nothing about Arum's shadiness that has been going for years.

Arum has been killing the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight for years now and it's funny that all of the Manny fans will stay in constant denial of the facts and say nothing about Arum but will readily attack Haymon who has done far less dirt than Bob has.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wXPao73Mdg

[ReggieDiggs]

The fact demonstrated by his actions is that he is monopolist with disdain for competitive structure of the sport. If he gets his way boxing will be a divided world of cherry picked showcase fights with no credible champions and further diluted championship structure. You can see ABC organizations fighting back already. Lets see how far he can go without belts on his rooster. Although nothing stops him making his own sanctioning organization. Dumb boxing fans will swallow everything.

Monopolist? Please break down how he is this? I'm legit curious. Based on facts please. The Al speculation is off the charts here. Its a lil hilarious. He's like the Keyser Soze of boxing these days.

And fwiw I'd be for anyone starting their own sanctioning org. Anything that takes power & influence from the abc orgs I'm for. Hell the hardcore amateur fans were breaking into tears over the AIBA pro boxing thing, but I love that idea too cuz its taking away some power from the abc orgs that have hurt boxing in my eyes.

[Tarkus]

What dont you know that Quillin vacated the title just to prevent Haymons rival promoter make the event after they won the rights.

As for ABC belts, yes if one organization would take over that would be great. But adding another meaningless title will obviously make things worse. Hey why dont everybody make their inhouse belts then we can all be champions, i am sure I can find someone to beat in my neighborhood.

[Chepppaaa]

so you mean, haymon wants to build something like ufc in mma....one big company that has all the top boxers....

[crusader]

The Al speculation is off the charts here. Its a lil hilarious.

I agree.

Your speculation that the overwhelming majority of people who mention Haymon wouldn't do so if he weren't involved with Mayweather was good for a laugh; it's not like the guy with a 140+ stable which includes several of the best fighters in the sport is a prolific boxing figure outside his dealings with Floyd.

Al could write a new Muhammad Ali act thats 1000 times better than the original, get drug testing done across the board & get the abc orgs out of the game & some people would still sh!t on Al like they sh!t on Richard, Leonard Ellerbe, Ishe Smith, any TMT member really & even Oscar before he went rogue on Floyd over the May 2 date just due to residual Floyd hate.

Some people could be two out of thousands. I doubt there would be widespread sh!tting on Al if he were largely responsible for the changes you listed and I'm sure you could understand why people would react differently to him accomplishing that vs. him being a main factor in things such as the Garcia-Salka card, crap like Barthelmey-Saucedo, and the Quillin ordeal (let's turn down a career-high payday against a mediocre opponent and do nothing for what will probably be more than a year!).

He's got an exceptionally strong stable and the potential is there for very good fights, but I don't think that's yet to materialize with consistency. Perhaps his influence will ultimately lead to better match-ups than we're currently used to and breathe more life into the sport, the possibility of which makes me eager to learn more about his NBC plan, but that's just more Al speculation ain't it?

[Badhusker]

There's been lots of talk about Al Haymon and his perceived negative impact on the sport of boxing. At the moment im not sure whether he's a positive or negative, what I do know is that I enjoy seeing good fighters compete on quality cards. So consider this....

Al Haymon has approximately 140 fighters under contract and is heavily rumored to be trying to make a move to nbc sports. What if this past year has been more about buying time and setting himself up? Having boxing on national tv is going to require some major ratings to even make it worth a major networks time and interest. But maybe that pressure will be the best thing for us as fans. Imagine what it could mean if guys in his stable HAVE to fight each other because now the ratings are dependent on it. This whole time when guys have been vacating belts, taking "tune up" fights.... What the hell are they tuning up for? Could it possibly be that they didn't want to waste a great show being promoted under a golden boy banner? Most of the guys at the top of the divisions are managed by this guy and its hard to argue with seeing what could potentially be great fights on regular television.

I think Haymon is smarter than given credit for. Imo, PPV's in boxing are starting to fade except the biggest fights, and with all the streams available now. Putting fights back on the regular networks will vastly increase the fan base of boxing, like it used to be. When Floyd and Manny retire, it will be the perfect time to do it.

[ReggieDiggs]

What dont you know that Quillin vacated the title just to prevent Haymons rival promoter make the event after they won the rights.

As for ABC belts, yes if one organization would take over that would be great. But adding another meaningless title will obviously make things worse. Hey why dont everybody make their inhouse belts then we can all be champions, i am sure I can find someone to beat in my neighborhood.

Tbh I'd rather see Golden Boy, Top Rank & K2 champions over abc org champions at this point. Its all meaningless til there is one champ in every division again so I don't see much difference if there were some more extra champions or promoter titles took over the abc org titles.

[ReggieDiggs]

so you mean, haymon wants to build something like ufc in mma....one big company that has all the top boxers....

This would be the way to go. I don't see anyone having the power structure or influence to make that happen. Boxing would need to drop even further down for this to be doable. Boxing is too spread out I think.

[ReggieDiggs]

The Al speculation is off the charts here. Its a lil hilarious.

I agree.

Your speculation that the overwhelming majority of people who mention Haymon wouldn't do so if he weren't involved with Mayweather was good for a laugh; it's not like the guy with a 140+ stable which includes several of the best fighters in the sport is a prolific boxing figure outside his dealings with Floyd.

Al could write a new Muhammad Ali act thats 1000 times better than the original, get drug testing done across the board & get the abc orgs out of the game & some people would still sh!t on Al like they sh!t on Richard, Leonard Ellerbe, Ishe Smith, any TMT member really & even Oscar before he went rogue on Floyd over the May 2 date just due to residual Floyd hate.

Some people could be two out of thousands. I doubt there would be widespread sh!tting on Al if he were largely responsible for the changes you listed and I'm sure you could understand why people would react differently to him accomplishing that vs. him being a main factor in things such as the Garcia-Salka card, crap like Barthelmey-Saucedo, and the Quillin ordeal (let's turn down a career-high payday against a mediocre opponent and do nothing for what will probably be more than a year!).

He's got an exceptionally strong stable and the potential is there for very good fights, but I don't think that's yet to materialize with consistency. Perhaps his influence will ultimately lead to better match-ups than we're currently used to and breathe more life into the sport, the possibility of which makes me eager to learn more about his NBC plan, but that's just more Al speculation ain't it?

Who mentions managers though? Virtually no one & there are guys with 25+ boxers out there (pre-Haymon & post-Haymon) & I bet less than 2% would know them so I don't think the 140 boxers manager isn't getting bumped up too much higher in a public who knows who I am poll. No one cares imho. Sh!t no one should know Koncz or Ellerbe either, but cuz they work with Manny & Floyd a lot more people know them. Now go ask people who manages the rest of the top ten, top twenty p4p guys & I bet you get a whole hell of a lot more confused looks or horrible guesses than right answers.

The second part doesn't even compute to me. Al isn't a promoter. "His" guys aren't like Oscar's guys or Bob's guys. He's a manager. Managers don't make fights. This is basic sh!t. As a manager his job is to get the most money for his guy doing the least work. Now granted Al certainly has more influence, but that doesn't cease him being a manager where again the goal is to get the most for doing the least.

And yea the Peter thing seems like a horrible decision to me too (the rest of the stuff you mentioned is just classic bad cards, Arum puts on bad cards all the time, Hell Don King was the man as far as cards go back in the day, but even he has some sh!t cards, its not even Al's job to worry about the entire fight card, blame the promoter not Al), but boxing is filled with horrible decisions. Basically 50% of the newsworthy sh!t James Kirkland has done as far as potential fights go in the last 3 or so years has been a horrible decision, but no one is sh!tting on Michael Miller cuz no one knows who the f#ck Michael Miller is.

[crusader]

Who mentions managers though? Virtually no one & there are guys with 25+ boxers out there (pre-Haymon & post-Haymon) & I bet less than 2% would know them so I don't think the 140 boxers manager isn't getting bumped up too much higher in a public who knows who I am poll. No one cares imho. Sh!t no one should know Koncz or Ellerbe either, but cuz they work with Manny & Floyd a lot more people know them. Now go ask people who manages the rest of the top ten, top twenty p4p guys & I bet you get a whole hell of a lot more confused looks or horrible guesses than right answers.

Which managers have a comparable stable of roughly 140 fighters, numerous being among the best and/or most well-known in the sport along with several very promising prospects? Which managers have a comparable number of fighters that regularly appear on major western networks (since that's where most of the discussion comes from)? Of those managers, which are regularly the first person thanked when their fighters speak publicly? Haymon's profile and influence are hugely disproportional to that of possibly every other manager, and his name is brought up so much by fighters that there is going to be more talk of him. I can't see how top managers like Egis Klimas or Cameron Dunkin wouldn't be talked about much more than they are now if they had Haymon's stable outside Floyd, were mentioned as frequently by those fighters, and were involved in the same dealings.

These days Haymon's name is spoken largely without reference to Mayweather anyway, and I don't see why virtually all the discussion surrounding him, his growing stable of fighters, and his influence as manifested through fights such as Garcia-Salka and the Quillin ordeal comes back to Mayweather. To me you sound like someone who thinks that there is practically no boxing outside of Floyd.

The second part doesn't even compute to me. Al isn't a promoter. "His" guys aren't like Oscar's guys or Bob's guys. He's a manager. Managers don't make fights. This is basic sh!t. As a manager his job is to get the most money for his guy doing the least work. Now granted Al certainly has more influence, but that doesn't cease him being a manager where again the goal is to get the most for doing the least.

When did I suggest that Al was a promoter or mention Oscar or Bob?

My point in the second paragraph was very simple and I'm surprised you can't grasp or 'compute' it. You rabble on about how 'some people' (which could be two) would still sh!t on Haymon if he were responsible for an overwhelming amount of positive change in the sport, yet you seem to be basing that on nothing more than people's reaction to how his influence has recently been exerted very differently (see examples in previous posts). I have little doubt that Haymon is good at what he does, but, and believe it or not Reggie, that's very compatible with his influence being narrowly beneficial yet generally detrimental (e.g. more mismatches that deter from future viewership). It seems clear to me that people are largely critical of the general impact he's having on the sport rather than more narrowly how good he is at looking after his fighters, though that may be more of an issue with the likes of Quillin having to turn down career-high purses against very beatable opponents.

Additionally, while he's not a matchmaker by title you're ignorant if you don't think he has a very important role in who his fighters face, which is evidenced through loads of comments about fighters talking to him before they know what their next move will be. You may also want to read this comment that Danny Garcia made in the lead up to the horrible Salka mismatch:

“At the end of the day, I don’t pick my opponents,” Garcia claimed during a Wednesday media conference call. “My manager, Al Haymon does, and I never go against him.”

And yea the Peter thing seems like a horrible decision to me too (the rest of the stuff you mentioned is just classic bad cards, Arum puts on bad cards all the time, Hell Don King was the man as far as cards go back in the day, but even he has some sh!t cards, its not even Al's job to worry about the entire fight card, blame the promoter not Al), but boxing is filled with horrible decisions. Basically 50% of the newsworthy sh!t James Kirkland has done as far as potential fights go in the last 3 or so years has been a horrible decision, but no one is sh!tting on Michael Miller cuz no one knows who the f#ck Michael Miller is.

I'm not sure I've seen a major televised card with a worse main event than Garcia-Salka. How often does a 100-1 mismatch occupy that type of spot? Numerous other promoters and managers are responsible for mismatches, but they get rightfully get plenty of shit as well and those mismatches don't seem to consistently occupy such significant TV slots, which is simultaneously a testament to Haymon's business success and why people are critical of him.

Is the Michael Miller you mention also the one who said that Kirkland was 'unpredictable', 'burning bridges', and has consistently expressed that he has serious problems with Kirkland's antics? I'm sure he'd be an oft-mentioned figure if even a quarter of Haymon's stable were his, but I doubt he'd draw major criticism given the evidence that Kirkland was responsible for his own misfortunes and wasn't simply listening to what his manager said as Garcia stated he does with Haymon, or bound by Haymon's contractual restrictions as was the case with Quillin.

But this is virtually all just a case of people hating Floyd right? I had a good chuckle at how you demanded facts and called the speculation herein laughable after you gave a specific percentage (10% max) about how much people would talk of Haymon if he weren't involved with Mayweather.

[ReggieDiggs]

Which managers have a comparable stable (so around 140 fighters, several of which are among the best and/or most well-known in the sport along with several of the most promising prospects) and are regularly the first person thanked when his fighters speak publically? Haymon's profile and influence are hugely disproportional to that of possibly every other manager, and his name is brought up so much by fighters that there is going to be more talk of him. I can't see how top managers like Egis Klimas or Cameron Dunkin wouldn't be talked about much more than they are now if they had Haymon's stable outside Floyd, were mentioned as frequently by those fighters, and were involved in the same dealings.

These days Haymon's name is spoken largely without reference to Mayweather anyway, and I don't see why virtually all the discussion surrounding him, his growing stable of fighters, and his influence as manifested through fights such as Garcia-Salka and the Quillin ordeal comes back to Mayweather. To me you sound like someone who thinks that there is practically no boxing outside of Floyd.

I don't believe there to be anyone with 140 boxers that they manage. I never said differently. There are managers with a few dozen guys that I'm aware of. There could be guys with a number closer to or surpassing Al I just don't know that to be a fact cuz I nor most of the boxing community seem to pay that close attention to who's managing who.

I'm not a fan of the post fight thank you tirades so I got no clue who's being or not being thanked. I've heard other managers mentioned by name, but sure Al is a name often heard in post fight thank you tirades. It would stand to reason him having so many fighters working with him that get on TV would get his name out there disproportionately for fans who watch the sport on TV.

And I'm not saying Al is only connected to Floyd. I'm saying Al's first revealing to most fans was Floyd related therefore he has a negative connotation of him off of the Floyd connection cuz obviously Floyd is the most hated guy in the sport & anyone who's closely associated with Floyd gets some residual Floyd hate that flies onto them just for breathing the same air as Floyd for too long a time.

When did I suggest that Al was a promoter or mention Oscar or Bob?

My point in the second paragraph was very simple and I'm surprised you can't grasp or 'compute' it. You rabble on about how 'some people' (which could be two) would still sh!t on Haymon if he were responsible for an overwhelming amount of positive change in the sport, yet you seem to be basing that on nothing more than people's reaction to how his influence has recently been exerted very differently (see examples in previous posts). I have little doubt that Haymon is good at what he does, but, and believe it or not Reggie, that's very compatible with his influence being narrowly beneficial while being generally detrimental (e.g. more mismatches that deter from future viewership). It seems clear to me that people are largely critical of the general impact he's having on the sport rather than more narrowly how good he is at looking after his fighters, though that may be more of an issue with the likes of Quillin having to turn down career-high purses against very beatable opponents.

Additionally, while he's not a matchmaker by title you're ignorant if you don't think he has a very important role in who his fighters face, which is evidenced through loads of comments about fighters talking to him before about who they will face next. You may also want to read this comment that Danny Garcia made in the lead up to the horrible Salka mismatch:

“At the end of the day, I don’t pick my opponents,” Garcia claimed during a Wednesday media conference call. “My manager, Al Haymon does, and I never go against him.”

I brought up the promoter thing cuz you seem to implying Al is stopping more fights (per capita) than other managers. His job is to get his guy in there with the lowest caliber guy who can get his fighter (& therefore him) the most money. There are gonna be some decisions that Al makes that may or may not make sense for his fighters career trajectory. And you & I both may disagree with that decision, but it doesn't make it anything bigger than Al making a decision for his fighter that he believes to be the best long term decision for his fighter, you know just like any other manager would or I guess should be trying to do.

The promoters job is to offer the best possible fights to fans via whatever means he has to do that at his disposal. You seem to be wanting to have Al do a promoters job. If a promoter is cool with paying Adrien nice money to fight some random cat why wouldn't Adrien & Al take advantage of that to one degree or another? The promoter needs to be the one tangling a nice enough carrot for a fighter & his manager to wanna grab it or not putting such a big carrot so low to the ground whatever the case maybe for a situation. At a certain point it can have negative effects as Danny is recently an example of, but again this is a decision Al, Danny & Danny's people must be contemplating & feel like is the best decision for Danny's long term career trajectory. People have suggested this has something to do with the NBC Sports situation. Idk if thats true or not, but we should be finding out soon.

And mind you many a guy has had promoter issues. There are probably 5 or so big names right now who are on the outs with their promoter & aren't even fighting at all so there are plenty of examples of issues with promoters that have led to fighters being sidelined so I'd assume if promoters got issues with Adrien or Danny or whoever fighting lesser guys they'd have no problem 86ing that fight & keeping Adrien & company on the sidelines til something more sellable comes up. What does Al got naked pics of all the promoters f#cking farm animals or something?

I'm not sure I've seen a major televised card with a worse main event than Garcia-Salka. How often does a 100-1 mismatch occupy that type of spot? Numerous other promoters and managers are responsible for mismatches, but (1) they get rightfully get plenty of poo as well (2) those mismatches don't seem to consistently occupy such significant TV slots, which is simultaneously a testament to Haymon's business success and why people are critical of him.

Is the Michael Miller you mention also the one who said that Kirkland was 'unpredictable', 'burning bridges', and has consistently expressed that he has major problems with Kirkland's antics? I'm sure he'd be an oft-mentioned figure if even a quarter of Haymon's stable were his, but I doubt he'd draw significant criticism given the evidence that Kirkland was responsible for his own misfortunes and wasn't simply listening to what his manager said, as Garcia stated he does with Haymon, or bound by Haymon's contractual restrictions (e.g. Quillin).

There have been plenty of bad cards in boxing. Quit kidding yourself. I've seen sites that talk about the worst fight or card every single year so lets not act like bad matchmaking isn't a common issue in our sport.

And are you suggesting Al isn't getting sh!t for these fights? If not wtf are we talking about now?

Yes that is the Michael Miller I speak of.

[crusader]

I don't believe there to be anyone with 140 boxers that they manage. I never said differently. There are managers with a few dozen guys that I'm aware of. There could be guys with a number closer to or surpassing Al I just don't know that to be a fact cuz I nor most of the boxing community seem to pay that close attention to who's managing who.

I'm not a fan of the post fight thank you tirades so I got no clue who's being or not being thanked. I've heard other managers mentioned by name, but sure Al is a name often heard in post fight thank you tirades. It would stand to reason him having so many fighters working with him that get on TV would get his name out there disproportionately for fans who watch the sport on TV.

And I'm not saying Al is only connected to Floyd. I'm saying Al's first revealing to most fans was Floyd related therefore he has a negative connotation of him off of the Floyd connection cuz obviously Floyd is the most hated guy in the sport & anyone who's closely associated with Floyd gets some residual Floyd hate that flies onto them just for breathing the same air as Floyd for too long a time.

You didn't suggest that there was a manager with a similar sized stable and I never said otherwise. My question was largely rhetorical because I think it's clear that no manager approaches Haymon in terms of quantity alone, nor do I think anyone nears his the combination of volume and quality, the latter composed of the drawing power, potential, and ability of his fighters. Add in his NBC deal and his name being mentioned constantly in post-fight interviews, conference calls, and press conferences by loads of fighters, and you have a manager who stands out from the rest. You emphasize that Haymon is a manager and they tend to have a relatively low profile, but I think it's inappropriate to group an obvious outlier (as even you concede) with the others.

Perhaps his initial involvement with Floyd led to his name being slightly tainted, but Haymon has been involved with so many high-profile fighters and contentious matters that it's extremely hard for me to believe that antipathy towards Mayweather is why nearly everyone who mentions Haymon does so.

I brought up the promoter thing cuz you seem to implying Al is stopping more fights (per capita) than other managers. His job is to get his guy in there with the lowest caliber guy who can get his fighter (& therefore him) the most money. There are gonna be some decisions that Al makes that may or may not make sense for his fighters career trajectory. And you & I both may disagree with that decision, but it doesn't make it anything bigger than Al making a decision for his fighter that he believes to be the best long term decision for his fighter, you know just like any other manager would or I guess should be trying to do.

The promoters job is to offer the best possible fights to fans via whatever means he has to do that at his disposal. You seem to be wanting to have Al do a promoters job. If a promoter is cool with paying Adrien nice money to fight some random cat why wouldn't Adrien & Al take advantage of that to one degree or another? The promoter needs to be the one tangling a nice enough carrot for a fighter & his manager to wanna grab it or not putting such a big carrot so low to the ground whatever the case maybe for a situation. At a certain point it can have negative effects as Danny is recently an example of, but again this is a decision Al, Danny & Danny's people must be contemplating & feel like is the best decision for Danny's long term career trajectory. People have suggested this has something to do with the NBC Sports situation. Idk if thats true or not, but we should be finding out soon.

And mind you many a guy has had promoter issues. There are probably 5 or so big names right now who are on the outs with their promoter & aren't even fighting at all so there are plenty of examples of issues with promoters that have led to fighters being sidelined so I'd assume if promoters got issues with Adrien or Danny or whoever fighting lesser guys they'd have no problem 86ing that fight & keeping Adrien & company on the sidelines til something more sellable comes up. What does Al got naked pics of all the promoters f#cking farm animals or something?

My initial post addressed your statements about Haymon, not Arum or Oscar, so you're the one who brought them up in trying to make a point.

I think I have a good idea of what a manager's job is, and I'm not doubting that Haymon is a good or even great manager. The issue for many people seems to be that Haymon's influence has a largely negative impact on boxing even if it's very beneficial to him and his fighters, and hence he draws criticism from people who want to see better fights and a flourishing sport. What he's accomplished is not remotely comparable to the hypothetical accomplishments you listed in a previous post, so I think it's a stretch to think that there would be widespread dislike of Haymon regardless of what he did. Perhaps you didn't meant to assert that there would be widespread dislike of him, but I think you're kidding yourself if you don't believe that virtually everyone known to that extent doesn't have at least a few 'haters'.

There have been plenty of bad cards in boxing. Quit kidding yourself. I've seen sites that talk about the worst fight or card every single year so lets not act like bad matchmaking isn't a common issue in our sport.

And are you suggesting Al isn't getting sh!t for these fights? If not wtf are we talking about now?

Yes that is the Michael Miller I speak of.

I explicitly stated that numerous promoters and managers are responsible for mismatches, so I'm not sure why you think I'm kidding myself. My initial response to you wasn't also about Arum, Oscar, Hearn, or any boxing figure other than Haymon, yet predictably you seemed to interpret it as such. Like another thread in which you went off on a tangent at the harmless suggestion that people speculate more about Haymon than other major boxing figures because he doesn't speak publicly, I think your defensiveness of him is causing you to see things that aren't there.

And no, I'm not suggesting that Al isn't getting sh!t for those fights and you should've been able to discern that because I stated why he I think he is criticized and repeatedly mentioned fights such as Garcia-Salka in that context. For example, I wrote this in response to your comments about how people would still sh1t on him if he were responsible for several positive changes "I'm sure you could understand why people would react differently to him accomplishing that vs. him being a main factor in things such as the Garcia-Salka card, crap like Barthelmey-Saucedo, and the Quillin ordeal."

[Chepppaaa]

so you mean, haymon wants to build something like ufc in mma....one big company that has all the top boxers....

This would be the way to go. I don't see anyone having the power structure or influence to make that happen. Boxing would need to drop even further down for this to be doable. Boxing is too spread out I think.

exactly, boxing is to spread out. boxing is everywhere. in japan it is very strong with teiken, in germany it is very strong with sauerland, in england it is superstrong, in usa.

what we need, is "fan friendly" way of thinking, simply what oscar said "make thebest fights happen and that is what golden boy is all about".

teiken needs to talk with top rank, golden boy needs to talk with matchroom, haymon needs to talk with haymon. it should be more like super six, where everybody gets together and make it happen and what happened, great great fights. abraham - taylor (one of the best kos ever), froch - kessler (war).....etc......thats boxing, top guys getting against each other and promoters making it happen.

can you imagine how bombastic a LH tournament would be

kovalev - berbetiev
adonis - pascal

or welterweight

thurman - pacquiao
mayweather - brook

that is must see tv, with the winner, the final you would have 3 world class fight, in round about 12 month.

[boxbible]

No... NBC will be used as a showcase. There's no way he can make money there. Heck, he even paid NBC millions to secure those 20 dates from Kathy Duva.

And Duva says Haymon isn't doing PPVs either. So it's got to be a new broadcast outlet funding him. Maybe one of the many new internet TV networks that's about to launch.

[beatdown337]

http://www.BS.com/guerrero-thu ... ard--86292

Thurman vs Guerrero and Broner vs john Molina

Pretty decent fights for free tv. I think he's gonna make it happen and in the end us boxing fans will be the winners!

[ReggieDiggs]

http://www.BS.com/guerrero-thu ... ard--86292

Thurman vs Guerrero and Broner vs john Molina

Pretty decent fights for free tv. I think he's gonna make it happen and in the end us boxing fans will be the winners!

Yea agree. Keith vs Robert was a fight that was being talked about for premium cable. Now its on NBC.

I'm curious as to the level of NBC Sports cards. Thats the majority of this deal. I was kinda expecting bigger fights for NBC.

[beatdown337]

http://www.BS.com/guerrero-thu ... ard--86292

Thurman vs Guerrero and Broner vs john Molina

Pretty decent fights for free tv. I think he's gonna make it happen and in the end us boxing fans will be the winners!

Yea agree. Keith vs Robert was a fight that was being talked about for premium cable. Now its on NBC.

I'm curious as to the level of NBC Sports cards. Thats the majority of this deal. I was kinda expecting bigger fights for NBC.

I see your point, but I wonder if it could be a sort of, introduction to the younger stars. Maybe giving the masses a chance to grow with and follow their careers. Sounds kinda ghey I know lol. But you get the point