Financiel questions $$$

[Chepppaaa]

how much does a fighter (world class super star like tyson, oscar, mayweather) get when he is

* is under a promotion company (lets say top rank)
* is his own boss, is not under a promotion company, but also does not have a promotion company, only a manager (floyd & haymon)
* is his own boss and has a own promotion company (oscar, golden boy)

i ask myself how it is most profitable, how it works with the percentages, does anybody have a clue.

for example.

De La Hoya earned $52 million against floyd, than on top % of the 2,4 million ppv buys. 1 buy equals around 50 $ (120.000.000 $ million), how much does than he get out of this and how much would a promoter or manager take away.

i am thinking sometimes about the biggest match up ever in todays media world. ali vs tyson under the circumstances of today or robinson vs leonard, i mean these kind of bouts would go sky high as far as around 4-6 million buys to be honest. I wounder how much than 1 fight would come out with.

does anybody have a clue how the business work of percentages?

[KBB]

One would think that in this world of "Spell Check" and other online sources that you would at least use them before you posted something, but yet you're quick to call someone dumb.

It's financial not financiel.

[Chepppaaa]

Here’s what I’m guessing…

The following fees are deducted from a fighter’s purse before tax deductions:
• Manager = 25% (legal limit is 33.3%)
• Trainer = 10%
• Cutman = 2%
• Strength & Conditioning coach = 3%
• Sanctioning fees = 3%

Tax is then paid on the remainder:
• Income tax (US) = 40%
• State tax (US – non Nevada fights) = 8.82%
• In Macau (China), the tax liability is only 12%, which is the reason why Top Rank are trying to build an empire there!

I think promoters can also deduct between 20% to 25% of their fighter’s purse if they compete on another promoter’s card.

It is believed that Bob Arum’s Top Rank typically deduct 27% from his fighter’s purses, with Al Haymon taking between 10% to 15%.

Sergey Kovalev reckoned he only took home about 25% of his purse when he fought Bernard Hopkins, which was an approximation.

I don’t know what Main Events or his manager charge, but assuming the rumoured industry standard figures, for the $500K he was paid to fight Hopkins, I reckon his take-home pay was around $133,068 (otherwise 26.61%), which is pure guesswork:

Gross Pay = $500K

Then deduct expenses:
• Manager (@ 33%) = $165K
• Trainer (@10%) = $50K
• Cutman (@2%) = $10K
• Strength Conditioning Coach (@3%) = $15K
• Sanctioning Fees (@3%) = $15K

Net Pay Before Tax = $260K

• Income Tax (@40%) = $104K
• State Tax (@8.82%) = $22,932

Net Pay After Tax = $133,068

I’m more than happy for someone to provide a more accurate assessment on this!

thanks, thats good info realy great thank you

[Chepppaaa]

fergusg


i have a another question and i know it has nothign to do with this thread, but i do not wanna open another thread just for one question =) and since you know some, i will ask.

how does it work with ppv in other countrys, i am talking about time wise, when you do a fight at wembley or macau, but yet you wanna have the ppv money fromt he us audience.

when it is 23 in the evening in the us, it is 18 oclock in uk, around 13 oclock in macau.

i just was woundering at what time big promoters do ppv events and how say handle time, example pacquiao rios in macau or lets say mayweather kahn in wembley, just was woudnering how they would handle this timewise for us audience, who is obviously the #1 ppv buyer.

[SteveO]

The PPV's are live in the U.K - so if it is an American card we are up all night!
They are usually repeated the following day though in case we fall asleep and miss it :-)

[Chepppaaa]

fergusg

okay. so

oscar made 52 guarenteed + 2,4 million ppv buy, 2,4 * 50 = 120.000.000 + 52.000.000= 172.000.000 $ million

172.000.000 $ million made oscar against floyd, before the % of his staff and tax

so, in fantasy prime tyson vs prime ali (for most the #1 ppv atraction you could possibly made)

so, lets say tyson get around 80 guarenteed, than lets say instead of 2,4, this even would make around 4,8 so twice as much as mayweather-oscar,

so tyson would have made 50 ppv * 4,8 million=240.000.000 + 80.000.000=320.000.000 $

320.000.000 $ before % and tax

imagine that...haha.....close to half a billion for 1 fight.

[Chepppaaa]

The PPV's are live in the U.K - so if it is an American card we are up all night!
They are usually repeated the following day though in case we fall asleep and miss it :-)

yeah, this i know, you watch the fight around 5 in the morning.

but my question was the opposite way. lets say they would make pacquiao-kahn at wembley.

therefore they would have the uk audience in the stadium and tv commercial or what not from uk tv, but
since usa audience are the #1 buyer of ppv, how would top rank do it, that they make a time okay for us audience, since there is
a timedifference of 5-7 hours between usa and uk.

same example for macau.

[expe]

The PPV's are live in the U.K - so if it is an American card we are up all night!
They are usually repeated the following day though in case we fall asleep and miss it :-)

yeah, this i know, you watch the fight around 5 in the morning.

but my question was the opposite way. lets say they would make pacquiao-kahn at wembley.

therefore they would have the uk audience in the stadium and tv commercial or what not from uk tv, but
since usa audience are the #1 buyer of ppv, how would top rank do it, that they make a time okay for us audience, since there is
a timedifference of 5-7 hours between usa and uk.

same example for macau.

A lot of the stuff in Macau has been shown on tape delay or has been live in the morning there, the time difference between China and the US is 13-16 hours, so there aren't many other options.

Over here fights have been put on in the early hours of the morning to satisfy US TV, but a fight at 3 in the morning at Wembley isn't really going to happen. They'd probably put the fight on as late as possible here, 10-11pm, then show it live in America, with a replay later on.

[Chepppaaa]

The PPV's are live in the U.K - so if it is an American card we are up all night!
They are usually repeated the following day though in case we fall asleep and miss it :-)

yeah, this i know, you watch the fight around 5 in the morning.

but my question was the opposite way. lets say they would make pacquiao-kahn at wembley.

therefore they would have the uk audience in the stadium and tv commercial or what not from uk tv, but
since usa audience are the #1 buyer of ppv, how would top rank do it, that they make a time okay for us audience, since there is
a timedifference of 5-7 hours between usa and uk.

same example for macau.

A lot of the stuff in Macau has been shown on tape delay or has been live in the morning there, the time difference between China and the US is 13-16 hours, so there aren't many other options.

Over here fights have been put on in the early hours of the morning to satisfy US TV, but a fight at 3 in the morning at Wembley isn't really going to happen. They'd probably put the fight on as late as possible here, 10-11pm, then show it live in America, with a replay later on.

so how has bob arum do to get ppv buys from us audience, at what tiem for example pac-rios?

i heard he got only around 500 k buys, was it because time, said effect....

[Chepppaaa]

so how has bob arum do to get ppv buys from us audience, at what tiem for example pac-rios?

i heard he got only around 500 k buys, was it because time, said effect....

The Pacquiao-Rios fight staged in China was fought at 10am (local time – 9pm in New York) in order to cash in on the US PPV market, which rules out that as a possible factor for the low buyrate.

Bob Arum has often stated that he doesn’t expect the Top Rank boxing events staged in Macau (China), such as the Pacquiao-Rios fight, to be big selling PPV’s in the US.

Any expected shortfall from a reduced PPV revenue stream will be offset against lower taxes and huge site fees received from the Venetian Hotel-Casino.

For instance, Manny received a $25m payday to face Chris Algieri in China, which probably was a commercial success, despite only achieving a 300K US PPV buys.

Pacquiao’s purse, if the bout was staged anywhere in the US, excluding Nevada, would have been taxed at 48.82% rather than Macau’s 12%.

China currently doesn’t have a PPV infrastructure, but eventually they might, which means that an established Top Rank business in that territory could realise a mammoth amount of turnover for each event, with minimum taxation… that will commercially dwarf the equivalent financial figures that US events could possibly hope to achieve.

Too many people on this forum overstate the importance of PPV buy-rates, without realising that “turnover is vanity - profit is sanity”.

again a good answer thanks, yeah its true. 48 and 12 % is a difference like night and day, no wounder why some business like to do their stuff there.

[sucracristo]

anyone who stages a boxing event must have a promoters license by law, so there
is always a promoter involved, even if the boxer doesn't have a multi-fight promotional
contract with any promoter. the promoter has to get the license, insurance, secure
a venue, set the venue up for the event, pay all the people working the venue including
the announcer (also licensed), ring card girls, judges, refs, commission, venue laborers,
ambulance with 2 paramedics, and pay sales taxes on all tickets AND pay the commission
a big fee to hold the event, and then pay all the boxers. that doesn't include the overhead
of running the promotions office and cost of promoting the event itself. if they get revenues
from merchandizing or concessions or tv, they have to collect the sales taxes for that, also.
only a superfight is going to get paid from a site (like adelson's venetian macao) to host the event.
that is a pant-load of money out of pocket to stage an event with all kinds of things
that can go wrong. there are all kinds of rules about ticket refunds and names on printed
showbills and purses and canceled events, etc. if there is any profit, there is US corporate
tax and depending on the state another level of corporate tax (nevada has no state corporate
tax).

IF the promoter makes a dime (big if) in profit to pay taxes on after all their expenses, they
are lucky. only a promoter that regularly stages big events is going to sign a multi-fight
contract with a fighter. the reason both sign the multi-fight contract is security. the fighter
already knows in advance how much he is going to make, at least as a base, and can budget
accordingly, and the promoter can market the fighters under contract to generate more
interest in the events. you original question asked what would be the difference in pay
to the fighter if had had his own promoter license (rare), a contract with a promoter,
or was an independent contractor. impossible to compare them, because of all the
variables mentioned above. it is possible for a promoter to lose a lot of money on a
card and it happens often. it is possible for a promoter to lose money on a multi-fight
contract with a boxer and that also happens sometimes. in those cases, the boxers
would appear to have gotten the better part of the deal because they got paid.
there are also cases where promoters make money off the cards they stage and
off the multi-fight contracts they sign, which is what any business exists to do.
without the promoters/owners/investors at all levels, there really wouldn't be a
such thing as professional boxing, and for most boxers getting their promoter's
license doesn't necessarily mean they will make any more or less on their own fights.
all they are doing is just expanding into a new job and responsibilities.

[sucracristo]

• State Tax (@8.82%) = $22,932

there is no tax on wages in nevada, texas, tennessee, florida, washington state, alaska,
south dakota, new hampshire, and wyoming.

maine, georgia, oklahoma, north and south carolina, and a few others have bills
in legislature to eliminate taxes on wages.

[sucracristo]

Sergey Kovalev's fight against Bernard Hopkins (as per my equation) was staged in New Jersey, which I believe is subject to 8.82% state income tax.

in that case definitely new jersey takes their cut, but bhop i think is from pa, and i'm not sure
about that state but very often the state of residence taxes income earned even in another
state. most people who live in new york and work in new jersey, or vise versa, pay state income
in both. i know there have been rich famous people who lived in new york who moved to florida
for tax reasons, but who still owned property in new york, and i think new york actually makes you
count how many days you were in new york during the year (something like 184 max), even if all
of your income is out of state, to determine whether new york will tax your out of state income.
this is a major reason why a lot of big fights involving non-brits can't take place in england.
england not only takes a big chuck of the check you get for an event, but they even lay claim
to all your other income everywhere else for the year, even sponsors if you are an athlete.
when i keep hearing people on here talk about floyd fighting khan in london, i'm thinking
these people must not have any idea what the difference is in taxes.