Same day weigh-ins or keep 24 hour gap?

[black panther]

This has been discussed numerous times over the years on here but I’ve been thinking about it more recently. Weigh-ins 24 hours before the fight were brought in some time ago, with the thinking that it would be safer for fighters. The extra 24 hours (more like 36 hours, as most weigh-ins are in the afternoon, not evening) supposedly makes it safer for fighters as it allows them to rehydrate, ensuring they (and particularly their brain) has sufficient fluid in their body.

Weight weakened fighters are more prone to suffer permanent damage, as:

“Dehydration leads to changes in the volume of compartments within the cranium that could put sportsmen and women at risk of brain damage after head injuries”

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/arc ... damage.htm

However, over the years we’ve still seen injuries of this nature to fighters. The 36 hour gap encourages them to drain even more than usual as they feel they have such a long time to rehydrate, they’ll be “alright” on the night. Moreover, it’s almost as if fighters are forced to fight at an unnaturally low weight or be forced to fight at a huge weight disadvantage.

I’ll give a few examples. British fighter Kieran Farrell fought Anthony Crolla for the English lightweight title. Despite gaining 18lbs between the weigh-in and fight time, during the fight he sustained permanent head trauma and will never box again. On the reverse side, there are a limitless number of fighters who have a huge weight advantage over their opponents; essentially making boxing less a contest of skill and will and more a case of the bigger man having more weight behind his punches, bludgeoning a smaller opponent.

One of the most famous cases is when Arturo Gatti (may he rest in peace) fought a fighter named Joey Gamache. The Gamache camp claim Gatti did not even make the 141lbs limit for the bout and insist there was foul play at the weigh-in. Never the less, by fight time Gatti was 19lbs over the 141lbs limit set for the fight. Gamache was knocked out in two rounds and due to the damage he suffered during the bout, he would never box again. More recent examples would be the exploits of Julio Cesar Chavez Jnr who would gain around 20lbs after weighing in as middleweight. This would mean in his fight against Martinez (who generally gains around 10lbs by fight night) , you essentially have a cruiserweight vs a super middleweight.
In his break-out fight on HBO, Brandon Rios fought Anthony Peterson. On fight night, Rios weighed 152lbs as opposed to Peterson who weighed 140lbs. Again, we have a case where by fight time we have a contest of fighters separated by several weight divisions.

In what I consider a rare good move for the sport by an alphabet organisation, the IBF started a ruling limiting the next day weight gain of a fighter to 10lbs above the contracted weigh-in weight. I think this is a good idea as it allows fighters time to rehydrate but discourages fighters to fight too low below their natural weight.

Apologies for the long post but I feel it’s an important issue that has become accepted as the norm in our sport. So my question is;

1. Should we revert to same day weigh-ins?
2. Keep weigh-ins as they are?
3. Keep 24 hour before weigh-ins but implement the IBF 10lbs maximum gain ruling across the board?

Interested to hear your thoughts. Don’t forget to vote in the poll.

[Boxerbeetle]

I voted to keep the 24 hour gap but have the IBF ruling. The 24 hour gap has definitely been beneficial in reducing serious injuries, but the overnight weight gain by certain fighters could potentially be equally as dangerous.

The main trouble with the IBF ruling is enforcing it - due to the money involved it's almost impossible to cancel the fight at such late notice, fighters are happy enough just to get docked a percentage of their purse.

[spudder56]

I voted to keep the 24 hour gap but have the IBF ruling. The 24 hour gap has definitely been beneficial in reducing serious injuries, but the overnight weight gain by certain fighters could potentially be equally as dangerous.

The main trouble with the IBF ruling is enforcing it - due to the money involved it's almost impossible to cancel the fight at such late notice, fighters are happy enough just to get docked a percentage of their purse.

x2

[mfc_se15]

I voted to keep the 24 hour gap but have the IBF ruling. The 24 hour gap has definitely been beneficial in reducing serious injuries, but the overnight weight gain by certain fighters could potentially be equally as dangerous.

The main trouble with the IBF ruling is enforcing it - due to the money involved it's almost impossible to cancel the fight at such late notice, fighters are happy enough just to get docked a percentage of their purse.

Seems the logical answer to me, not that I would pretend to understand all the science behind these things

[Ketchel]

I voted for same day weigh ins. I am old school, maybe it is safer now maybe it isn't but systems are always going to be abused so why not try to have the levelest of playing fields. The Gatti V Gamache fight was sickening. I particularly remember the Wayne McCullough V Scott Harrison fight which was essentially a welterweight fighting a super bantam. What a beating the brave Wayne took that night. McCullough showed immense heart in getting through that fight but in no way was that a fair fight.

We have weight divisions that are abused therefore the history of boxing is being abused. We look back on the golden eras of boxing and recognise the top guys in each division. What is going to happen when we look back on this era of day before weigh ins? Who was the best middleweight? Who was the best welterweight? What I am saying is that we have cases were fighters are weighing in at welterweight and by fight time they are middleweights or super middleweights. How then can we compare eras? Just think that if Marvin Hagler was fighting today he would probably retire as the greatest welterweight of all time!

The other side of the coin shows that we also have catchweight fights were the bigger guys are in some cases being made to cut so much weight that by fight time they are a shell of who they are. In these cases even if they do gain more weight than their opponent they are done before the fight. Case in point Saul Alvarez versus Mayweather. Even though Saul outweighed Floyd by fight time you can't say that a young growing man have to eat tomatoes and lettuce for months is in a position to take on a talented guy who has been eating chicken dinners everyday with extra gravy.

Just plain abuse of the systems.

Bring back same day weigh ins.

[black panther]

I voted for same day weigh ins. I am old school, maybe it is safer now maybe it isn't but systems are always going to be abused so why not try to have the levelest of playing fields. The Gatti V Gamache fight was sickening. I particularly remember the Wayne McCullough V Scott Harrison fight which was essentially a welterweight fighting a super bantam. What a beating the brave Wayne took that night. McCullough showed immense heart in getting through that fight but in no way was that a fair fight.

We have weight divisions that are abused therefore the history of boxing is being abused. We look back on the golden eras of boxing and recognise the top guys in each division. What is going to happen when we look back on this era of day before weigh ins? Who was the best middleweight? Who was the best welterweight? What I am saying is that we have cases were fighters are weighing in at welterweight and by fight time they are middleweights or super middleweights. How then can we compare eras? Just think that if Marvin Hagler was fighting today he would probably retire as the greatest welterweight of all time!

The other side of the coin shows that we also have catchweight fights were the bigger guys are in some cases being made to cut so much weight that by fight time they are a shell of who they are. In these cases even if they do gain more weight than their opponent they are done before the fight. Case in point Saul Alvarez versus Mayweather. Even though Saul outweighed Floyd by fight time you can't say that a young growing man have to eat tomatoes and lettuce for months is in a position to take on a talented guy who has been eating chicken dinners everyday with extra gravy.

Just plain abuse of the systems.

Bring back same day weigh ins.

Some very valid points Sir.

That's why I've set the poll so people can change their votes dependent on points raised in the discussion.

[grub]

The IBF rule on weight gain is a good idea and a step in the right direction, but also gets relatively little coverage. As noted above, there have been several instances of fighters not bothering with the re-weigh and therefore forfeiting the title at stake (or the elimator status etc) but the fight still goes ahead - Kevin Mitchell very recently and I think Gamboa, a few years back, spring to mind.

The present system does mean it often becomes a question of who can re-gain the most weight (although I guess there is a danger of gaining too much and affecting mobility/stamina).

[black panther]

The IBF rule on weight gain is a good idea and a step in the right direction, but also gets relatively little coverage. As noted above, there have been several instances of fighters not bothering with the re-weigh and therefore forfeiting the title at stake (or the elimator status etc) but the fight still goes ahead - Kevin Mitchell very recently and I think Gamboa, a few years back, spring to mind.

The present system does mean it often becomes a question of who can re-gain the most weight (although I guess there is a danger of gaining too much and affecting mobility/stamina).

One point I made is Kieran Farrel's case where even though he gained 18lbs overnight, he still suffered head trauma. Draining to that extent, regardless of weight out back on, can still have a detrimental effect.

A few posters who work in the healthcare/medical industry could explain this far more eloquently than ever could.

[Datsue]

I voted for same day weigh ins. I am old school, maybe it is safer now maybe it isn't but systems are always going to be abused so why not try to have the levelest of playing fields. The Gatti V Gamache fight was sickening. I particularly remember the Wayne McCullough V Scott Harrison fight which was essentially a welterweight fighting a super bantam. What a beating the brave Wayne took that night. McCullough showed immense heart in getting through that fight but in no way was that a fair fight.

We have weight divisions that are abused therefore the history of boxing is being abused. We look back on the golden eras of boxing and recognise the top guys in each division. What is going to happen when we look back on this era of day before weigh ins? Who was the best middleweight? Who was the best welterweight? What I am saying is that we have cases were fighters are weighing in at welterweight and by fight time they are middleweights or super middleweights. How then can we compare eras? Just think that if Marvin Hagler was fighting today he would probably retire as the greatest welterweight of all time!

The other side of the coin shows that we also have catchweight fights were the bigger guys are in some cases being made to cut so much weight that by fight time they are a shell of who they are. In these cases even if they do gain more weight than their opponent they are done before the fight. Case in point Saul Alvarez versus Mayweather. Even though Saul outweighed Floyd by fight time you can't say that a young growing man have to eat tomatoes and lettuce for months is in a position to take on a talented guy who has been eating chicken dinners everyday with extra gravy.

Just plain abuse of the systems.

Bring back same day weigh ins.

This, this a thousand times this. Apart from the bit about being able to compare eras; whilst i acknowledge that this is the case (I've often made the point in theoretical fantasy match-up discussions that, say, Arthur Abraham versus Virgil Hill is more equal size-wise than AA vs Gene Fulmer) I would not personally advocate it as a reason to abolish the vast gap between weigh-in & fight (I just don't care enough about fantasy fights of any description).

I would add, though--& I know this isn't gonna be the most popular opinion ever evinced, so I'm kinda battening down my hatches beforehand--but if you are stupid enough to potentially fvck yourself up to a ridiculous level--over & above the imposed stipulations--to gain what is essentially an unfair advantage, then, seriously, fvck you. Sympathy in these cases is, after a period where i feel terrible for having this opinion, rather lacking from me.

Very few people who would castigate me for having this opinion tend to give a flying fvck about the poor bastard on the receiving end of a beating--or more likely, repeated beatings, time & time again--from a bigger, heavier dude. I hear so few people bringing up the likes of Gamache, or mention the long-term cumulative effects of smaller (let's face it, journeymen/undercard/not the house boy) fighters regularly going in against much bigger guys, about the risks posed to them, their health, their long-term future.

Roll the dice because you can & get hurt, everyone immediately throws up their hands in horror. You must be protected from your own rapacious, reckless stupidity.

Get the shite kicked out of you by a bloke much bigger who technically weighs the same yet patently physically outmatches you, everyone shrugs & shoves their hands in their pockets.

The current gap is an Elastoplast placed on a gushing axe-wound. There's a problem, so instead of trying to do something properly about it--check weigh-ins, surprise visits from people with a calibrated scale, hydration tests, stuff that might cost some vonger--let's legitimise cheating, & make it safer for the person taking the piss. Nice one, boxing.

It's become just another bit of deck-stacking in favour of the favoured. Earn someone money? Face fits? We'll put you on racehorse diuretics until there's no water left in you, then plug you into a hosepipe & a drip full of pasta after you've proved that you can weigh X-ridiculous-low-amount for all of five seconds.

& that'll be fair.

[expe]

The IBF rule on weight gain is a good idea and a step in the right direction, but also gets relatively little coverage. As noted above, there have been several instances of fighters not bothering with the re-weigh and therefore forfeiting the title at stake (or the elimator status etc) but the fight still goes ahead - Kevin Mitchell very recently and I think Gamboa, a few years back, spring to mind.

The present system does mean it often becomes a question of who can re-gain the most weight (although I guess there is a danger of gaining too much and affecting mobility/stamina).

The other problem with it is that 10lbs isn't much for a light heavy or cruiserweight, but stick 10lbs on a flyweight and it's close to 10% of their body weight. And that's only on the morning of the fight, they can still put on more between then and getting into the ring and they could wake up inside the limit, or a little over, go the toilet, shadow box a bit, put off breakfast until after the second weigh in and they get round the rule.

[black panther]

The IBF rule on weight gain is a good idea and a step in the right direction, but also gets relatively little coverage. As noted above, there have been several instances of fighters not bothering with the re-weigh and therefore forfeiting the title at stake (or the elimator status etc) but the fight still goes ahead - Kevin Mitchell very recently and I think Gamboa, a few years back, spring to mind.

The present system does mean it often becomes a question of who can re-gain the most weight (although I guess there is a danger of gaining too much and affecting mobility/stamina).

The other problem with it is that 10lbs isn't much for a light heavy or cruiserweight, but stick 10lbs on a flyweight and it's close to 10% of their body weight. And that's only on the morning of the fight, they can still put on more between then and getting into the ring and they could wake up inside the limit, or a little over, go the toilet, shadow box a bit, put off breakfast until after the second weigh in and they get round the rule.

Good point.

[Counter-puncher]

I voted for same day weigh ins. I am old school, maybe it is safer now maybe it isn't but systems are always going to be abused so why not try to have the levelest of playing fields. The Gatti V Gamache fight was sickening. I particularly remember the Wayne McCullough V Scott Harrison fight which was essentially a welterweight fighting a super bantam. What a beating the brave Wayne took that night. McCullough showed immense heart in getting through that fight but in no way was that a fair fight.

We have weight divisions that are abused therefore the history of boxing is being abused. We look back on the golden eras of boxing and recognise the top guys in each division. What is going to happen when we look back on this era of day before weigh ins? Who was the best middleweight? Who was the best welterweight? What I am saying is that we have cases were fighters are weighing in at welterweight and by fight time they are middleweights or super middleweights. How then can we compare eras? Just think that if Marvin Hagler was fighting today he would probably retire as the greatest welterweight of all time!

The other side of the coin shows that we also have catchweight fights were the bigger guys are in some cases being made to cut so much weight that by fight time they are a shell of who they are. In these cases even if they do gain more weight than their opponent they are done before the fight. Case in point Saul Alvarez versus Mayweather. Even though Saul outweighed Floyd by fight time you can't say that a young growing man have to eat tomatoes and lettuce for months is in a position to take on a talented guy who has been eating chicken dinners everyday with extra gravy.

Just plain abuse of the systems.

Bring back same day weigh ins.

This, this a thousand times this. Apart from the bit about being able to compare eras; whilst i acknowledge that this is the case (I've often made the point in theoretical fantasy match-up discussions that, say, Arthur Abraham versus Virgil Hill is more equal size-wise than AA vs Gene Fulmer) I would not personally advocate it as a reason to abolish the vast gap between weigh-in & fight (I just don't care enough about fantasy fights of any description).

I would add, though--& I know this isn't gonna be the most popular opinion ever evinced, so I'm kinda battening down my hatches beforehand--but if you are stupid enough to potentially fvck yourself up to a ridiculous level--over & above the imposed stipulations--to gain what is essentially an unfair advantage, then, seriously, fvck you. Sympathy in these cases is, after a period where i feel terrible for having this opinion, rather lacking from me.

Very few people who would castigate me for having this opinion tend to give a flying fvck about the poor bastard on the receiving end of a beating--or more likely, repeated beatings, time & time again--from a bigger, heavier dude. I hear so few people bringing up the likes of Gamache, or mention the long-term cumulative effects of smaller (let's face it, journeymen/undercard/not the house boy) fighters regularly going in against much bigger guys, about the risks posed to them, their health, their long-term future.

Roll the dice because you can & get hurt, everyone immediately throws up their hands in horror. You must be protected from your own rapacious, reckless stupidity.

Get the shite kicked out of you by a bloke much bigger who technically weighs the same yet patently physically outmatches you, everyone shrugs & shoves their hands in their pockets.

The current gap is an Elastoplast placed on a gushing axe-wound. There's a problem, so instead of trying to do something properly about it--check weigh-ins, surprise visits from people with a calibrated scale, hydration tests, stuff that might cost some vonger--let's legitimise cheating, & make it safer for the person taking the piss. Nice one, boxing.

It's become just another bit of deck-stacking in favour of the favoured. Earn someone money? Face fits? We'll put you on racehorse diuretics until there's no water left in you, then plug you into a hosepipe & a drip full of pasta after you've proved that you can weigh X-ridiculous-low-amount for all of five seconds.

& that'll be fair.

[Lenny]

I voted for same day weigh ins. I am old school, maybe it is safer now maybe it isn't but systems are always going to be abused so why not try to have the levelest of playing fields. The Gatti V Gamache fight was sickening. I particularly remember the Wayne McCullough V Scott Harrison fight which was essentially a welterweight fighting a super bantam. What a beating the brave Wayne took that night. McCullough showed immense heart in getting through that fight but in no way was that a fair fight.

We have weight divisions that are abused therefore the history of boxing is being abused. We look back on the golden eras of boxing and recognise the top guys in each division. What is going to happen when we look back on this era of day before weigh ins? Who was the best middleweight? Who was the best welterweight? What I am saying is that we have cases were fighters are weighing in at welterweight and by fight time they are middleweights or super middleweights. How then can we compare eras? Just think that if Marvin Hagler was fighting today he would probably retire as the greatest welterweight of all time!

The other side of the coin shows that we also have catchweight fights were the bigger guys are in some cases being made to cut so much weight that by fight time they are a shell of who they are. In these cases even if they do gain more weight than their opponent they are done before the fight. Case in point Saul Alvarez versus Mayweather. Even though Saul outweighed Floyd by fight time you can't say that a young growing man have to eat tomatoes and lettuce for months is in a position to take on a talented guy who has been eating chicken dinners everyday with extra gravy.

Just plain abuse of the systems.

Bring back same day weigh ins.

This, this a thousand times this. Apart from the bit about being able to compare eras; whilst i acknowledge that this is the case (I've often made the point in theoretical fantasy match-up discussions that, say, Arthur Abraham versus Virgil Hill is more equal size-wise than AA vs Gene Fulmer) I would not personally advocate it as a reason to abolish the vast gap between weigh-in & fight (I just don't care enough about fantasy fights of any description).

I would add, though--& I know this isn't gonna be the most popular opinion ever evinced, so I'm kinda battening down my hatches beforehand--but if you are stupid enough to potentially fvck yourself up to a ridiculous level--over & above the imposed stipulations--to gain what is essentially an unfair advantage, then, seriously, fvck you. Sympathy in these cases is, after a period where i feel terrible for having this opinion, rather lacking from me.

Very few people who would castigate me for having this opinion tend to give a flying fvck about the poor bastard on the receiving end of a beating--or more likely, repeated beatings, time & time again--from a bigger, heavier dude. I hear so few people bringing up the likes of Gamache, or mention the long-term cumulative effects of smaller (let's face it, journeymen/undercard/not the house boy) fighters regularly going in against much bigger guys, about the risks posed to them, their health, their long-term future.

Roll the dice because you can & get hurt, everyone immediately throws up their hands in horror. You must be protected from your own rapacious, reckless stupidity.

Get the shite kicked out of you by a bloke much bigger who technically weighs the same yet patently physically outmatches you, everyone shrugs & shoves their hands in their pockets.

The current gap is an Elastoplast placed on a gushing axe-wound. There's a problem, so instead of trying to do something properly about it--check weigh-ins, surprise visits from people with a calibrated scale, hydration tests, stuff that might cost some vonger--let's legitimise cheating, & make it safer for the person taking the piss. Nice one, boxing.

It's become just another bit of deck-stacking in favour of the favoured. Earn someone money? Face fits? We'll put you on racehorse diuretics until there's no water left in you, then plug you into a hosepipe & a drip full of pasta after you've proved that you can weigh X-ridiculous-low-amount for all of five seconds.

& that'll be fair.

Absolutely, I'm going to just this and save myself another rant over the substandard, cheating weight drainers beating up on lighter fighters and thus bringing down the quality for everyone.

The journeyman point is also one that is rarely raised

[lefty]

Hour weigh ins. Weigh in an hour before the fight takes place.

[black panther]

I'm bumping this as more people need to vote and I'm bored at work.

[grub]

The IBF rule on weight gain is a good idea and a step in the right direction, but also gets relatively little coverage. As noted above, there have been several instances of fighters not bothering with the re-weigh and therefore forfeiting the title at stake (or the elimator status etc) but the fight still goes ahead - Kevin Mitchell very recently and I think Gamboa, a few years back, spring to mind.

The present system does mean it often becomes a question of who can re-gain the most weight (although I guess there is a danger of gaining too much and affecting mobility/stamina).

The other problem with it is that 10lbs isn't much for a light heavy or cruiserweight, but stick 10lbs on a flyweight and it's close to 10% of their body weight. And that's only on the morning of the fight, they can still put on more between then and getting into the ring and they could wake up inside the limit, or a little over, go the toilet, shadow box a bit, put off breakfast until after the second weigh in and they get round the rule.

True.

Scope for differing weight allowances for different divisions. You can also adjust the re-weigh time to reduce the amount of time for weight gaining. I admit it's not perfect but I think it's better than the current system.

[Broomhall]

Such a difficult issue. I remember weighing in for amateur championships on the day, and still feeling dizzy from dehydration by fight time.

I get the point with journeymen getting battered by the bigger man-but journeymen I think are much less at risk because they usually fight at a weight they are comfortable with, and are rarely involved in wars. Championship class fighters are the guys most at risk as

A) they will usually have had long and tough amateur careers which involve weighing in at championships and internationals from schoolboy age.

B) once they reach title level they are fighting 10/12 rounders often with men of equal ability

There is often a complete lack of honesty on this issue from fighters, managers and trainers. I know of title class boxers who will lose over 40lbs during camp, and put that back on within three weeks.

I dont know an answer to it tbh-it is one of those cases where you can make an argument for each option.

[northern]

From this I think the IBF have the right idea, it makes the boxers fight on a level playing field and makes sure one fighter isn't coming in drastically bigger come fight time and having a huge strength and size advantage.

[Tarkus]

When does that IBF second weigh in takes place exactly???

Obviously 10 pound across the all weight classes is ridiculous. And in general the whole idea looks nothing more then a gimmick. So they loose weight again before the second weigh in. How does that make anything safer or better.

Same day weigh in can be done in the morning with two meals in between weigh in and a fight. I dont see the problem.

[Emmseegee]

The inactivity of modern boxers allows them to fight at lower weights as they give themselves big training/cutting periods etc. I know a lot of people criticise Mayweather for his catch weight tactics in the past but I think he deserves a lot of credit for how he has managed to dominate the sport in divisions that probably aint too far from his natural weight at each time of his career. There is no doubt that he still has to diet and live a strict lifestyle but his current size and shape is what id expect a welterweight to look like. Theres no doubt that his unique ability has made him so successful but surely his choice of weight divisions over the years has helped him have a long successfull career. Fighters of the past wouldnt have managed 100 fight records etc if they were crash dieting for every fight like modern boxers.

I fully agree that the currrent norm for cutting, weighing in and 're-hydrating' needs to be improved but people will always manipulate any system thats put in place. The only way I think it could be managed would involve too much time and money as check weigh in's would need to be more regular etc.

Surely with modern technologies there should be a way of accurately calculating someones safe weight range based on height, frame, bone density, muscle mass etc. If so then that could be included as part of an annual medical where the fighters are told what weights they are allowed to fight at based on facts about their body. Everybody knows that weight alone isnt an accurate guide to someones health, fitness or strength.
Maybe im just talking nonsense. Lol

[hurlock]

On the day with a dehydration test would make the sport so much safer!! Weigh inns have become another show now which the fans & media love no reason they couldn't do it early morning around 9-10

[Benelio]

edit: just posted exactly what someone else did about dehydration tests.

[Ezzard]

I voted for same day weigh ins. I am old school, maybe it is safer now maybe it isn't but systems are always going to be abused so why not try to have the levelest of playing fields. The Gatti V Gamache fight was sickening. I particularly remember the Wayne McCullough V Scott Harrison fight which was essentially a welterweight fighting a super bantam. What a beating the brave Wayne took that night. McCullough showed immense heart in getting through that fight but in no way was that a fair fight.

We have weight divisions that are abused therefore the history of boxing is being abused. We look back on the golden eras of boxing and recognise the top guys in each division. What is going to happen when we look back on this era of day before weigh ins? Who was the best middleweight? Who was the best welterweight? What I am saying is that we have cases were fighters are weighing in at welterweight and by fight time they are middleweights or super middleweights. How then can we compare eras? Just think that if Marvin Hagler was fighting today he would probably retire as the greatest welterweight of all time!

The other side of the coin shows that we also have catchweight fights were the bigger guys are in some cases being made to cut so much weight that by fight time they are a shell of who they are. In these cases even if they do gain more weight than their opponent they are done before the fight. Case in point Saul Alvarez versus Mayweather. Even though Saul outweighed Floyd by fight time you can't say that a young growing man have to eat tomatoes and lettuce for months is in a position to take on a talented guy who has been eating chicken dinners everyday with extra gravy.

Just plain abuse of the systems.

Bring back same day weigh ins.

This, this a thousand times this. Apart from the bit about being able to compare eras; whilst i acknowledge that this is the case (I've often made the point in theoretical fantasy match-up discussions that, say, Arthur Abraham versus Virgil Hill is more equal size-wise than AA vs Gene Fulmer) I would not personally advocate it as a reason to abolish the vast gap between weigh-in & fight (I just don't care enough about fantasy fights of any description).

I would add, though--& I know this isn't gonna be the most popular opinion ever evinced, so I'm kinda battening down my hatches beforehand--but if you are stupid enough to potentially fvck yourself up to a ridiculous level--over & above the imposed stipulations--to gain what is essentially an unfair advantage, then, seriously, fvck you. Sympathy in these cases is, after a period where i feel terrible for having this opinion, rather lacking from me.

Very few people who would castigate me for having this opinion tend to give a flying fvck about the poor bastard on the receiving end of a beating--or more likely, repeated beatings, time & time again--from a bigger, heavier dude. I hear so few people bringing up the likes of Gamache, or mention the long-term cumulative effects of smaller (let's face it, journeymen/undercard/not the house boy) fighters regularly going in against much bigger guys, about the risks posed to them, their health, their long-term future.

Roll the dice because you can & get hurt, everyone immediately throws up their hands in horror. You must be protected from your own rapacious, reckless stupidity.

Get the shite kicked out of you by a bloke much bigger who technically weighs the same yet patently physically outmatches you, everyone shrugs & shoves their hands in their pockets.

The current gap is an Elastoplast placed on a gushing axe-wound. There's a problem, so instead of trying to do something properly about it--check weigh-ins, surprise visits from people with a calibrated scale, hydration tests, stuff that might cost some vonger--let's legitimise cheating, & make it safer for the person taking the piss. Nice one, boxing.

It's become just another bit of deck-stacking in favour of the favoured. Earn someone money? Face fits? We'll put you on racehorse diuretics until there's no water left in you, then plug you into a hosepipe & a drip full of pasta after you've proved that you can weigh X-ridiculous-low-amount for all of five seconds.

& that'll be fair.

G a m e O v e r

[stevedoc]

I was thinking does creatine have a lot to do with such weight gains , creatine is taken by most athletes and it adds around 6 pounds of water which is drawn into the muscles now for most sportsmen the extra weight isn't a problem but 6 pounds for boxers is a different weight class . I guess fighters are now weighing more because of this, come weigh in time the boxer has to lose the extra water from the creatine as well as the normal last day weight then put it all back on after weigh in

[Counter-puncher]

I voted for same day weigh ins. I am old school, maybe it is safer now maybe it isn't but systems are always going to be abused so why not try to have the levelest of playing fields. The Gatti V Gamache fight was sickening. I particularly remember the Wayne McCullough V Scott Harrison fight which was essentially a welterweight fighting a super bantam. What a beating the brave Wayne took that night. McCullough showed immense heart in getting through that fight but in no way was that a fair fight.

We have weight divisions that are abused therefore the history of boxing is being abused. We look back on the golden eras of boxing and recognise the top guys in each division. What is going to happen when we look back on this era of day before weigh ins? Who was the best middleweight? Who was the best welterweight? What I am saying is that we have cases were fighters are weighing in at welterweight and by fight time they are middleweights or super middleweights. How then can we compare eras? Just think that if Marvin Hagler was fighting today he would probably retire as the greatest welterweight of all time!

The other side of the coin shows that we also have catchweight fights were the bigger guys are in some cases being made to cut so much weight that by fight time they are a shell of who they are. In these cases even if they do gain more weight than their opponent they are done before the fight. Case in point Saul Alvarez versus Mayweather. Even though Saul outweighed Floyd by fight time you can't say that a young growing man have to eat tomatoes and lettuce for months is in a position to take on a talented guy who has been eating chicken dinners everyday with extra gravy.

Just plain abuse of the systems.

Bring back same day weigh ins.

This, this a thousand times this. Apart from the bit about being able to compare eras; whilst i acknowledge that this is the case (I've often made the point in theoretical fantasy match-up discussions that, say, Arthur Abraham versus Virgil Hill is more equal size-wise than AA vs Gene Fulmer) I would not personally advocate it as a reason to abolish the vast gap between weigh-in & fight (I just don't care enough about fantasy fights of any description).

I would add, though--& I know this isn't gonna be the most popular opinion ever evinced, so I'm kinda battening down my hatches beforehand--but if you are stupid enough to potentially fvck yourself up to a ridiculous level--over & above the imposed stipulations--to gain what is essentially an unfair advantage, then, seriously, fvck you. Sympathy in these cases is, after a period where i feel terrible for having this opinion, rather lacking from me.

Very few people who would castigate me for having this opinion tend to give a flying fvck about the poor bastard on the receiving end of a beating--or more likely, repeated beatings, time & time again--from a bigger, heavier dude. I hear so few people bringing up the likes of Gamache, or mention the long-term cumulative effects of smaller (let's face it, journeymen/undercard/not the house boy) fighters regularly going in against much bigger guys, about the risks posed to them, their health, their long-term future.

Roll the dice because you can & get hurt, everyone immediately throws up their hands in horror. You must be protected from your own rapacious, reckless stupidity.

Get the shite kicked out of you by a bloke much bigger who technically weighs the same yet patently physically outmatches you, everyone shrugs & shoves their hands in their pockets.

The current gap is an Elastoplast placed on a gushing axe-wound. There's a problem, so instead of trying to do something properly about it--check weigh-ins, surprise visits from people with a calibrated scale, hydration tests, stuff that might cost some vonger--let's legitimise cheating, & make it safer for the person taking the piss. Nice one, boxing.

It's become just another bit of deck-stacking in favour of the favoured. Earn someone money? Face fits? We'll put you on racehorse diuretics until there's no water left in you, then plug you into a hosepipe & a drip full of pasta after you've proved that you can weigh X-ridiculous-low-amount for all of five seconds.

& that'll be fair.

G a m e O v e r

there must be some sort of 'post of the month' award...