Foreman vs. 5 in Toronto (1975)

[Tony1244]

I thought the Foreman vs 5 in Toronto...

Alonzo Johnson KO2
Jerry Judge KO2
Terry Daniels KO2
Charlie Polie W3
Boone Kirkman W3

was a fun affair. They all got a good workout in. The fans loved booing a defiant Foreman who raised his hands after each victory as Cossell acted like a rasslin' announcer by going on ad naseum about what a disgrace this was.

All the magazines talked as though Foreman had pissed on the flag and beat his wife. I thought it was a glorified sparring session that was a lot of fun.

A lot of people take their entertainment too seriously. What do you think? Am I off?

[Ilya Muromets]

"was a fun affair."

I commented on this on another thread.

Unfortunately it wasn't done in a spirit of fun. In fact the whole show was mean spirited. Clay-Ali - whatever he was calling himself at the time - at ringside had a lot to do with it. He was being his usual obnoxious a-hole self and was given the microphone to do it, loudly. Foreman had not yet grown into his lovable good guy persona. Some of his opponents, all way over matched, tried hard and some were just there to take the money and run. One of them, Alonzo Johnson, had fought Clay years earlier and had come very close to beating him. None of those fights is listed as official.

[Tony1244]

"was a fun affair."

I commented on this on another thread.

Unfortunately it wasn't done in a spirit of fun. In fact the whole show was mean spirited. Clay-Ali - whatever he was calling himself at the time - at ringside had a lot to do with it. He was being his usual obnoxious a-hole self and was given the microphone to do it, loudly. Foreman had not yet grown into his lovable good guy persona. Some of his opponents, all way over matched, tried hard and some were just there to take the money and run. One of them, Alonzo Johnson, had fought Clay years earlier and had come very close to beating him. None of those fights is listed as official.

I was a kid at the time and felt like I was the only person in the world rooting for Foreman. I agree it was mean spirited. Ali was great but he was hardly a perfect person. He did cross the line sometime. But Foreman was young and strong and most people then thought Ali was bullying the bully. I respected Ali, and still do, but Iike I said I was rooting for Foreman, I was into his demeanor.

It was an exhibition. But some of the outclassed opponents were trying. I thought it was good entertainment, even though it was somewhat nasty, and I couldn't tell if Howard was part of the act. He was talking like a wrestling announcer, taking it all too seriously. It was great fodder for Ali vs. Foreman 2, which of course never happened because Foreman had yet to solve his endurance problem against Jimmy Young.

[Syntax Error]

It wasnt a black eye for boxing, that's for sure.

It was Foreman having a bit of fun, although one has to wonder why someone who so desperately wanted his title back disappeared in 1975, apart from the exhibition, but he has his reasons I suppose.

[HomicideHenry]

These sort of things used to happen in boxing alot.... Fitzsimmons fought 7 men in a day, Jeffries fought the three best British heavies in a day, LaMar Clark fought as many as 6 men in a day on a few ocassions, etc. I thought it was a good and entertaining event--- though it did make both Ali and Foreman look like idiots to one degree or another.

These days, unless its "Off the Street" boxing or Prizefighter or unlicensed, you seldom ever see or hear these sort of things take place--- as commissions have it set up that (bare minimum) a fighter can't fight for a week after a single contest.

I know alot of people say, or believe, that Foreman would of lost a rematch to Ali had it happen--- but in my view, the last resemblance of Ali was against Wepner in '75. From that point on, he was more flat footed, slow, vulnerable. Had Foreman gotten the shot anytime after Lyle, etc. I think Foreman would of taken it. But that's just me.

[SenorPipino]

I enjoyed the Toronto Circus.
It was entertaining and was put together to supposedly demonstrate that Foreman actually possessed endurance.
It was a lot of fun to watch.

Can't imagine anyone getting beligerent and bent out of shape over Ali's fun-loving antics at ringside. He was just being the carney promoter he always was.
Remember, Ali never denied his shtick was inspired by wrestler Gorgeous George.

Like Tony1244 said, "a lot of people take their entertainment too seriously."

[Ilya Muromets]

I watched it again. It's on Youtube. It was even worse than I remembered it. I agree with Howard Cosell. It was ugly. There was nothing "fun" about it. Foreman was thoroughly nasty and the crowd booed him and threw garbage. All of his opponents were selected not only to be non-competitive but also much smaller. The lowlight was when a gutsy fighter named Terry Daniels wouldn't quit, so Foreman told the ref to stop the fight. The ref promptly stopped the fight. The crowd booed and threw garbage. And yeah Ali was a good showman who did say he copied his act from G George. I just don't think anything of him as a boxer or a sportsman or a person. And boxing, unlike the Gorgeous one's milieu, is supposed to be a real sport, not choreographed "sports entertainment".

[Ilya Muromets]

Interesting:

Boone Kirkman, in the final fight, "broke one of George Foreman's ribs going the four round distance in Foreman's infamous four fighter exhibition in Toronto in 1977."

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:122

Bit it was five fights not four, and 1975 not 1977, and 3 rounds not 4. They got almost everything wrong! If there are any BoxRec editors here they might want to correct that.

[BoxBuzz]

x2x......how would it be possible to KNOW just who did the rib breaking? Did George authenticate it?

[Ilya Muromets]

x2x......how would it be possible to KNOW just who did the rib breaking? Did George authenticate it?

I guess he did, otherwise how would they know that? But if you read what is on that link you know as much about it as I do. They did get everything elsle wrong though. Perhaps I'll watch that one again to see when it might have occurred.

[Ilya Muromets]

I did watch the final fight again. I wasn't paying close attention to it before. Boone Kirkman put up a good fight and he did land some good shots, including hard body shots.

[orbtastic]

Foreman apparently corroborated the injury.

[Tony1244]

And yeah Ali was a good showman who did say he copied his act from G George. I just don't think anything of him as a boxer or a sportsman or a person. And boxing, unlike the Gorgeous one's milieu, is supposed to be a real sport, not choreographed "sports entertainment".[/quote]


You surely don't have to like Ali as a person. Liking someone really can't be debated. He called Frazier an "Uncle Tom," so as I have alluded to before, Ali did cross the line of decency sometimes, which I believe he'd now admit. But not admiring Ali as a boxer? Come on! He was a master boxer. Switching religions and not going to a war when your country calls is going to permanently piss people some off. As my Dad use to say, "There are a lot of books written on those subjects." War and religion have been fiercely debated for a few millenniums now.

Regarding "entertainment," at the risk of getting a bit philosophical, sports, music, media, news, tosome degree, are ALL entertainment.

[Syntax Error]

I've never understood why some people took Ali's self promotion antics seriously & got upset by them

He was clearly a clown who was just indulging in self promotion to increase interest in him & his fights.

He definitely crossed the line with the things he said about Smokin' Joe Frazier, but Ali was not very educated & was almost like a child when he was promoting a contest.

He later admitted he was wrong to say those things about Smokin' Joe & apologised, quite rightly too.

[dempseyfire]

Cosell's boo-hooing of the whole thing was ridiculous. Who doesn't want to see someone try to knock out 5 people in one evening? Foreman, for not being in shape, was impressive IMO. The guys we fought were not scrubs, they were experienced journeyman and in Kirkman a former contender/current gatekeeper level fighter.

[Tony1244]

Cosell's boo-hooing of the whole thing was ridiculous. Who doesn't want to see someone try to knock out 5 people in one evening? Foreman, for not being in shape, was impressive IMO. The guys we fought were not scrubs, they were experienced journeyman and in Kirkman a former contender/current gatekeeper level fighter.

I was thinking about this exhibition over the weekend. I was wondering if Cosell really thought it was a disgrace or he was playing a role like a good wrestling announcer.

The tape can be found on youtube, I believe. I'm very curious as to if other people thought Cosell's act was that, an act.

Ring Magazine, at the time, thought the exhibition was a disgrace. I'm happy to see most posters on here do NOT agree.

[SteveO]

I've never understood why some people took Ali's self promotion antics seriously & got upset by them

He was clearly a clown who was just indulging in self promotion to increase interest in him & his fights.

He definitely crossed the line with the things he said about Smokin' Joe Frazier, but Ali was not very educated & was almost like a child when he was promoting a contest.

He later admitted he was wrong to say those things about Smokin' Joe & apologised, quite rightly too.

[littlepug]

pretty sure koki kameda did something similar to "the Toronto 5" the other day in japan