Standing 8/10 count

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 17 Feb 2015, 09:48

When a referee thinks a fighter may be too hurt to continue, should a standing 8/10 count be mandatory?

Considering Froch-Groves 1 and Rose-Jones recently, in both cases the fights were stopped because the referee feared for the safety of the fighter and opted against a standing count.

Is there any other way of getting around this?

Of course you don't want refs jumping in and issuing standing counts every time a fighter gets stunned or has a good shot landed upon him, but surely a compulsory mandatory 10 count prior to awarding a TKO would prevent refs from making too rash a decision and give them a few seconds to properly consider the fighters condition to continue?

It all just seems a bit too instant. In fairness to the referees a fight can change drastically in the blink of an eye and they don't have a lot of time to make a decision which impacts both the career and health of a fighter.

I think it's easy to watch replays and criticise refs for getting it wrong, but the referees involved in the two fights referenced above are experienced and it's hard to believe they would want to be controversial or are deliberately making bad decisions.

Ultimately there is a very fine line between an early stoppage and a late stoppage and timing it right can't be easy.

palooka · Post by **palooka** » 17 Feb 2015, 09:56

A standing 8 count? They are allowed by some organisations.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 17 Feb 2015, 10:45

Yes, sorry I have edited the subject title. They are rarely used, especially in high profile fights, unless a ref feels the ropes held a fighter up.

palooka · Post by **palooka** » 17 Feb 2015, 10:51

It's alright John, didn't want to seem a pedant

I think the standing 8 is a good thing, it gives the ref a little more leeway and if the boxer is out of it the ref can save him from further punishment - the different organisations ought to be on the same sheet with this, it is confusing.

handsofstone · Post by **handsofstone** » 17 Feb 2015, 11:30

IJL score for the Arnfield/Hall fight was his worst action on the night

keirw · Post by **keirw** » 17 Feb 2015, 11:33

I think a standing count is a good idea, but it should count as a 10/8 on the cards and you should only be allowed one in a round,if the fighter gets in trouble again the ref can stop it without any blame as he would have given the fighter a chance already. It will take the pressure off the ref immensely.

Looking On · Post by **Looking On** » 17 Feb 2015, 12:35

keirw wrote:I think a standing count is a good idea, but it should count as a 10/8 on the cards and you should only be allowed one in a round,if the fighter gets in trouble again the ref can stop it without any blame as he would have given the fighter a chance already. It will take the pressure off the ref immensely.

Benelio · Post by **Benelio** » 17 Feb 2015, 12:44

The Danny Williams / Konstantin Airich fight is a prime example of Standing 8 counts gone mad.

danamba7 · Post by **danamba7** » 17 Feb 2015, 12:55

keirw wrote:I think a standing count is a good idea, but it should count as a 10/8 on the cards and you should only be allowed one in a round,if the fighter gets in trouble again the ref can stop it without any blame as he would have given the fighter a chance already. It will take the pressure off the ref immensely.

Agree

Broomhall · Post by **Broomhall** » 17 Feb 2015, 17:25

I dont like them in pro boxing. You work hard to get someone in trouble. They have the option to take a knee, and if they arent in a state to think about going down they shouldnt be allowed to continue.

How would it take the pressure off the ref? Especially if you give him certain numbers of counts to administer-what if there is a genuine knockdown, can he give a standing count as well in the same round? are you going to have a maximum number of counts in a fight? does the ref have to keep score of them as well?

Take a fight like Gatti/Ward- how many counts could have been issued in that? You could have referees jumping in all over the place

The way to take pressure off the ref is to keep it simple. Fighter not in a position to defend himself stop the fight.

Fatsam · Post by **Fatsam** » 17 Feb 2015, 17:26

Exactly my thoughts after the jones v rose fight

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 18 Feb 2015, 04:55

Broomhall wrote:They have the option to take a knee, and if they arent in a state to think about going down they shouldnt be allowed to continue.

Not as simple as that, these are proud men and although it may be the sensible thing to do at times, these are proud men and I don't think there are many fighters who would voluntarily take a count in a fight. And any who did would likely be considered weak by the fans.

freddydoesdallas · Post by **freddydoesdallas** » 18 Feb 2015, 09:02

Broomhall wrote:I dont like them in pro boxing. You work hard to get someone in trouble. They have the option to take a knee, and if they arent in a state to think about going down they shouldnt be allowed to continue.

How would it take the pressure off the ref? Especially if you give him certain numbers of counts to administer-what if there is a genuine knockdown, can he give a standing count as well in the same round? are you going to have a maximum number of counts in a fight? does the ref have to keep score of them as well?

Take a fight like Gatti/Ward- how many counts could have been issued in that? You could have referees jumping in all over the place

The way to take pressure off the ref is to keep it simple. Fighter not in a position to defend himself stop the fight.

I'm with you. I don't like them in pro boxing. If a ref is going to jump in to stop a fighter taking punishment then it should be stopped completely. It is outside interference. Boxers know what they need to do to satisfy a ref when they are in trouble, fight back and try to work their way out of it. If they can't do that, they can take a knee. If they can't do either then they are leaving it in the hands of the referee and he has to determine whether it is safe for the fighter to continue.

I know we get an early stoppage now and then but it's normally for the same reason. The fighter who is being stopped has stopped fighting and normally have shipped some heavy blows and shown signs of being hurt. I can't recall loads of the top of my head but i always think back to Groves & Enzo against Ovil. Groves was definitely stunned he then ran away and turned his back whilst clearly being hurt. He made the ref make a decision. Enzo was taking punches on the ropes and not throwing back. He was taking some clean shots but he was blocking a few too. He didn't throw back though and again made the ref make a decision.

Everyone knows these basics in boxing but when you're hurt it's hard to do even the basics. That's when a ref knows that you are in some sort of trouble

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