Common Mayweather-Pacquiao Opponents?

[ReggieDiggs]

ib4claimsofnutthuggerism

gl Ferg

[Badhusker]

There are a few on the board here that will be madder than a wet hen.

[Ricky_]

Brut / kbb / badhusker / nate jr / fergus


How many accounts does this Floyd Fanatic need?


"Dear floyd, I wrote you but you still ain't callin, I left my cell my home and my pager across the bottom..."

[Ricky_]

Here’s a list of common Mayweather Pacquiao opponents:
• Juan Manuel Marquez - beat 3 times in his prime (accounting for judging error of 10-7 instead of 10-6)
• Shane Mosley (put on his ass)
• Miguel Cotto (brutalised)
• Ricky Hatton (coma)
• Oscar De La Hoya (brutalised)

Let’s review these fights in context, without analysing the results:


Floyd Mayweather Jr.:

Shane Mosley – clearly washed up by Mayorga fight. Still had Floyd hanging on for grim life.

Miguel Cotto - a 1lb catchweight is "highly controversial"? What did that make the 2lb catchweight in Floyd vs Alvarez? Idiot. Brutalised by Manny, pounded Floyd on the ropes in a fight he believes he won.

Ricky Hatton - Was outside his weight class. Only had 1 ww fight prior to Floyd and took a pounding from Collazo. Impressed after Floyd by stopping Malignaggi. cited the hugher weightclass as reason for losing to Floyd, stated he was still the best 140lber in the planet before getting ktfo vs Pacquiao in his prime weight class.

Oscar De La Hoya - past it for both. Split Decision Floyd... beat into retirement by Pac. No catchweight for either. Oscar was a-side dictating terms.


Juan Manuel Marquez – coaxed into a 144lb catchweight that Marquez was well under and Floyd couldn't make. Floyd missed weight, Marquez accounted for the 2-weight class jump by eating cake, showing up with a burrito belly.

[KBB]

Brut / kbb / badhusker / nate jr / fergus


How many accounts does this Floyd Fanatic need?


"Dear floyd, I wrote you but you still ain't callin, I left my cell my home and my pager across the bottom..."

Aww come on Rick, you know that's not me.

[Ricky_]

Brut / kbb / badhusker / nate jr / fergus


How many accounts does this Floyd Fanatic need?


"Dear floyd, I wrote you but you still ain't callin, I left my cell my home and my pager across the bottom..."

Aww come on Rick, you know that's not me.

You're 3/5 I reckon.

[IKSRTFO]

Here’s a list of common Mayweather Pacquiao opponents:
• Juan Manuel Marquez
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Ricky Hatton
• Oscar De La Hoya

Let’s review these fights in context, without analysing the results:

Manny Pacquiao:
The last time Pacquiao defeated Marquez in 2011; this was a catch-weight fight. De La Hoya, Mosley & Cotto were all natural 154lb-ers, but they had to agree to face the Filipino legend at a stipulated weight that was outside their natural habitat (i.e. lower than their normal weight). Ricky Hatton was past-his-prime by the time he faced Pacquiao.

Floyd Mayweather Jr.:

Shane Mosley – At the time he faced Floyd, he was ranked third in Ring Magazine’s top 100 pound-for-pound fighters (ahead of fighters like Bernard Hopkins, Wladimir Klitschko and Sergio Martinez), as well as the number two welterweight (only behind Floyd) and in his previous fight captured the WBA 147lb title from Antonio Margarito (who himself had only just became the first man to defeat Miguel Cotto).

Miguel Cotto - Prior to facing Floyd Mayweather Jr. his only losses were against Antonio Margarito & Manny Pacquiao, which were both highly controversial in nature (i.e. the loaded glove scandal and the catch-weight stipulation)... and he easily avenged one of those losses and subsequently claimed Sergio Martinez’s WBC & lineal middleweight crowns.

Ricky Hatton - An undefeated two-division champion, Ring Magazine’s 2005 fighter of the year, boasted a victory over the Hall-of-Famer Kostya Tszyu, (at the time of the Mayweather bout) held the Ring magazine's World Light Welterweight crown and had been ranked in the pound-for-pound top ten for three consecutive years prior to facing Floyd.

Oscar De La Hoya - At the time of the Mayweather fight, was ranked by Ring Magazine as one of the top three 154lb-ers in the world, he also held the WBC light middleweight crown… and apart from the Hopkins defeat, his only losses were against Shane Mosley and Felix Trinidad, which were highly controversial in nature and by razor thin decisions. At the time of their fight, this was the most lucrative boxing match ever, because this was one of the most eagerly-anticipated bouts in the history of the sport.

Juan Manuel Marquez – Mayweather decked the 148lb Mexican, landed 59% of his punches and avoided 88% of the shots thrown by the Mexican legend… en route to scoring a lop-sided 120-107 victory. The year prior, only a knockdown caused Juan to drop a split decision to Pacquiao. The Mexican subsequently dropped another highly dubious decision at welterweight to Manny, which the majority of the boxing media thought he deserved to win, before eventually gaining his revenge and KO’ing the Filipino inside six rounds in 2012.

When Mayweather defeated Mosley and De La Hoya, it was more than a year before Pacquiao did, but fans of the Filipino legend are extremely proud of these victories. Also, when Floyd defeated Miguel Cotto, Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley, there were no catch-weight stipulations, which meant he fought those guys in their natural habitat... they weren't forced to gain or lose weight.

Thoughts? :??

So let me get this straight. Mosley was a natural 154lber yet you don't refer to that when mentioning Floyd's victory over him?

Straight bias

[hurricanemitch14]

Pacman/odlh wasnt a catchweight but odlh had to drop to welter...he hadnt fought at welter in yrs and we have seen time and again what that does to fighters.

[MachoTime]

"Common Opponents"

[Badhusker]

Here’s a list of common Mayweather Pacquiao opponents:
• Juan Manuel Marquez
• Shane Mosley
• Miguel Cotto
• Ricky Hatton
• Oscar De La Hoya

Let’s review these fights in context, without analysing the results:

Manny Pacquiao:
The last time Pacquiao defeated Marquez in 2011; this was a catch-weight fight. De La Hoya, Mosley & Cotto were all natural 154lb-ers, but they had to agree to face the Filipino legend at a stipulated weight that was outside their natural habitat (i.e. lower than their normal weight). Ricky Hatton was past-his-prime by the time he faced Pacquiao.

Floyd Mayweather Jr.:

Shane Mosley – At the time he faced Floyd, he was ranked third in Ring Magazine’s top 100 pound-for-pound fighters (ahead of fighters like Bernard Hopkins, Wladimir Klitschko and Sergio Martinez), as well as the number two welterweight (only behind Floyd) and in his previous fight captured the WBA 147lb title from Antonio Margarito (who himself had only just became the first man to defeat Miguel Cotto).

Miguel Cotto - Prior to facing Floyd Mayweather Jr. his only losses were against Antonio Margarito & Manny Pacquiao, which were both highly controversial in nature (i.e. the loaded glove scandal and the catch-weight stipulation)... and he easily avenged one of those losses and subsequently claimed Sergio Martinez’s WBC & lineal middleweight crowns.

Ricky Hatton - An undefeated two-division champion, Ring Magazine’s 2005 fighter of the year, boasted a victory over the Hall-of-Famer Kostya Tszyu, (at the time of the Mayweather bout) held the Ring magazine's World Light Welterweight crown and had been ranked in the pound-for-pound top ten for three consecutive years prior to facing Floyd.

Oscar De La Hoya - At the time of the Mayweather fight, was ranked by Ring Magazine as one of the top three 154lb-ers in the world, he also held the WBC light middleweight crown… and apart from the Hopkins defeat, his only losses were against Shane Mosley and Felix Trinidad, which were highly controversial in nature and by razor thin decisions. At the time of their fight, this was the most lucrative boxing match ever, because this was one of the most eagerly-anticipated bouts in the history of the sport.

Juan Manuel Marquez – Mayweather decked the 148lb Mexican, landed 59% of his punches and avoided 88% of the shots thrown by the Mexican legend… en route to scoring a lop-sided 120-107 victory. The year prior, only a knockdown caused Juan to drop a split decision to Pacquiao. The Mexican subsequently dropped another highly dubious decision at welterweight to Manny, which the majority of the boxing media thought he deserved to win, before eventually gaining his revenge and KO’ing the Filipino inside six rounds in 2012.

When Mayweather defeated Mosley and De La Hoya, it was more than a year before Pacquiao did, but fans of the Filipino legend are extremely proud of these victories. Also, when Floyd defeated Miguel Cotto, Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley, there were no catch-weight stipulations, which meant he fought those guys in their natural habitat... they weren't forced to gain or lose weight.

Thoughts? :??

So let me get this straight. Mosley was a natural 154lber yet you don't refer to that when mentioning Floyd's victory over him?

Straight bias

Mosley a natural 154lber? He called Pac's bluff and even agreed to cut to 140 and Pac/Roach still refused to fight him. Manny only fought him after Floyd when he saw his decline. Both Pac and Floyd fought him at 147. He went up a few times, yes. I would call him a big 147, but was not a natural 154.

[Ricky_]

De La Hoya, Mosley & Cotto were all natural 154lb-ers, but they had to agree to face the Filipino legend at a stipulated weight that was outside their natural habitat (i.e. lower than their normal weight).

Listening to you fall over yourself about weight is cringe inducing. Like one of those candid camera shows before the joke is revealed.

[tiny_acres]

Pacman/odlh wasnt a catchweight but odlh had to drop to welter...he hadnt fought at welter in yrs and we have seen time and again what that does to fighters.

Not to split hairs but the catch weight was 145 lbs.

[Ricky_]

Pacman/odlh wasnt a catchweight but odlh had to drop to welter...he hadnt fought at welter in yrs and we have seen time and again what that does to fighters.

Not to split hairs but the catch weight was 145 lbs.

no it wasn't, it was fought at the 147lb Welterweight limit.

Pacquiao vs Cotto was a 145lb catchweight.

[tiny_acres]

Pacman/odlh wasnt a catchweight but odlh had to drop to welter...he hadnt fought at welter in yrs and we have seen time and again what that does to fighters.

Not to split hairs but the catch weight was 145 lbs.

no it wasn't, it was fought at the 147lb Welterweight limit.

Pacquiao vs Cotto was a 145lb catchweight.

I stand corrected

[Ricky_]

A fair analysis of common opponents and not a trolling effort like Fergus:

Shane Mosley – Ws out of the ring for nearly a year after his defeat to Cotto. His comeback was against Mayorga. Anyone who seen this fight, and knows Sugar Shane, could see he was finished. Most had him behind against Mayorga, a fighter several levels below Shane, and it took a bingo punch in the final seconds of round 12 to get the job done. There was no difference in the version of Mosley that Floyd & Pacquiao fought. He was soundly beaten by both, ran for his life against Pacquiao and made to look a pensioner against Floyd after round 3. Did well to compete with Alvarez a year later.


Miguel Cotto - Neither man got the best version of Cotto. There is little doubt Floyd got a better version by fighting Cotto at the 154lb weight limit, which he seemed pretty proud of in the Kellerman face-off (Begs the question why allow Cotto to fight at 154 but not Canelo?). I think a prime Cotto was the early welterweight version that stopped zab and beat Mosley, the signature left hook. Pacquiao got a version that had not only lost his way somewhat in terms of technically ability due to trainer issues, but a Cotto that had clearly out grown the weight class. Mayweather still didn't get a prime Cotto but he got a healthier one. Cotto is now rejuvinated under Roach, were Floyd or Pacquiao to rematch him at 154lb, I'd favour Cotto.

Ricky Hatton - A 140lb fighter. Was disadvantaged by the extra weight vs Floyd at 147. On the flip side, against Pacquiao, it was in his native 140lb class but he already had the demons of the Floyd knock-out on his record. Was coming off an outstanding performance (1 of his best imo) against Malignaggi, stopping him. Who got the better version? Neither, and it didn't matter, he could be in the Prime of his life & on PED's and it wouldn't make a difference he was never in that league and his style wasn't cut out for either man.

Oscar De La Hoya - No question Mayweather got a better version, all-though, still well past his prime. Oscar was one of Pacquiao's best performances, a big underdog, Pacquiao brought his absolute A-game, not that he would have needed it against an DeLaHoya who badly overestimated his body's ability to make Welterweight. It's a shame Floyd decided against the rematch vs ODLH, the glory of beating Oscar from pillar-to-post would have been his and maybe we might not have seen the rise to superstardom for Pac.

Juan Manuel Marquez – There's no question that Pacquiao has faced the very best of Marquez. At featherweight, at superfeatherweight, at a JMM requested 144 catchweight, and finally at the full Welterweight limit. Floyd on the other hand had Marquez shift up 2 weights to a 144 catchweight which Floyd couldn't make, paying a token fine to further bolster his weight advantage. The 2-weight class jump also seen Marquez enter the ring in awful condition. Marquez complained after the fight that Floyd had 20lb on him.

[koolkc107]

3 of the 5- DLH, Mosley, Cotto- there is no doubt Mayweather saw the much better version.

DLH vs Floyd was at Oscar's natural weight. Manny saw a skeletal version over 19 months later (Oscar hadn't fought at 147 for over 7 and a half years before Manny)

Cotto faced Manny at a 145 catchweight. And there is also the question of how much Miguel was still affected by the Margarito beating and the grueling contest with game journeyman contender Clottey. Floyd. Folks can argue over how much these two factors affected the fight but what isn't arguable is that Mayweather faced Miguel at a weight which favored Cotto more than himself and faced him multiple years away from any beating or hard fight.

Shane was coming off the biggest win of his late career, a 9 round dismantling of Margarito that was Antonio's swiftest and most lopsided stoppage. You can argue that Shane was shot when he faced Floyd a year later in his very next fight, but then you have to also admit that Pac had no business fighting Shane a year after; and you must also give much less credit to Pac (and Cotto, although Miguel's need for revenge is understandable) for fighting Margarito even more years later.

As to the other two?

I laugh at folks who think a guy nicknamed "Fatton", a guy who regularly walked around at 180 lbs. was at some sort of disadvantage not having to cut as much weight as usual by fighting at 147 instead of 140.

And JMM's added bulk had nothing to do with the way Floyd beat him. But that is just my opinion as well...

[KBB]

A fair analysis of common opponents and not a trolling effort like Fergus:

1. Shane Mosley – Ws out of the ring for nearly a year after his defeat to Cotto. His comeback was against Mayorga. Anyone who seen this fight, and knows Sugar Shane, could see he was finished. Most had him behind against Mayorga, a fighter several levels below Shane, and it took a bingo punch in the final seconds of round 12 to get the job done. There was no difference in the version of Mosley that Floyd & Pacquiao fought. He was soundly beaten by both, ran for his life against Pacquiao and made to look a pensioner against Floyd after round 3. Did well to compete with Alvarez a year later.


2. Miguel Cotto - Neither man got the best version of Cotto. There is little doubt Floyd got a better version by fighting Cotto at the 154lb weight limit, which he seemed pretty proud of in the Kellerman face-off (Begs the question why allow Cotto to fight at 154 but not Canelo?). I think a prime Cotto was the early welterweight version that stopped zab and beat Mosley, the signature left hook. Pacquiao got a version that had not only lost his way somewhat in terms of technically ability due to trainer issues, but a Cotto that had clearly out grown the weight class. Mayweather still didn't get a prime Cotto but he got a healthier one. Cotto is now rejuvinated under Roach, were Floyd or Pacquiao to rematch him at 154lb, I'd favour Cotto.

3. Ricky Hatton - A 140lb fighter. Was disadvantaged by the extra weight vs Floyd at 147. On the flip side, against Pacquiao, it was in his native 140lb class but he already had the demons of the Floyd knock-out on his record. Was coming off an outstanding performance (1 of his best imo) against Malignaggi, stopping him. Who got the better version? Neither, and it didn't matter, he could be in the Prime of his life & on PED's and it wouldn't make a difference he was never in that league and his style wasn't cut out for either man.

4. Oscar De La Hoya - No question Mayweather got a better version, all-though, still well past his prime. Oscar was one of Pacquiao's best performances, a big underdog, Pacquiao brought his absolute A-game, not that he would have needed it against an DeLaHoya who badly overestimated his body's ability to make Welterweight. It's a shame Floyd decided against the rematch vs ODLH, the glory of beating Oscar from pillar-to-post would have been his and maybe we might not have seen the rise to superstardom for Pac.

5. Juan Manuel Marquez – There's no question that Pacquiao has faced the very best of Marquez. At featherweight, at superfeatherweight, at a JMM requested 144 catchweight, and finally at the full Welterweight limit. Floyd on the other hand had Marquez shift up 2 weights to a 144 catchweight which Floyd couldn't make, paying a token fine to further bolster his weight advantage. The 2-weight class jump also seen Marquez enter the ring in awful condition. Marquez complained after the fight that Floyd had 20lb on him.

1. Didn't Shane have another bad performance vs Mora before Manny faced him?? Regardless, Floyd had the much better version especially since Manny and Roach turned down facing Shane at 142 even though Mosley agreed to it.

2. Cotto was a battered and bruised fighter (body and ego) after the drubbing he received from Margarito loaded gloves, so there's no question that Floyd received a better version that was not only recovered but at a higher weight and not weight drained like Manny did to him for Miguel's title.

3. Hatton was garbage by the time Manny got to him, Lazcano had nearly KO'd him and before that there was no talk of Pacquiao wanting any part of him but then after they see he had been raped over the course of the entire fight taking damage from Floyd along with the KO and then being put on Queer Street vs Lazcano then and only then did they feel the cherry was ready to be picked. Another one that without a doubt Floyd had the better version of.

4. DLH did not overestimate his ability to make WW, he knew he couldn't but he wanted the big payday and everyone and their mommas reported that Oscar wasn't training, was totally drained and was getting mauled by the tiny Valero in sparring. Why this was such a big win for Manny is beyond me. Floyd faced a much better version without a doubt, not drained into a zombie skeleton like the version of DLH that Pacquiao faced.

5. I never saw a complaint by JMM about Mayweather having 20lbs over him, that never happens because Floyd rarely comes in at or above the WW limit, physically I would say that JMM was better prepared in his one punch sleepytime KO performance over Manny than he had been physically in his fight with Floyd. People might not remember that JMM was in great condition though because he was drinking his own piss (lol) and claimed that he was more ready then than he was in 3 fights vs Manny.

The difference being Floyd totally outclassed and befuddled Marquez all night long and Pacquiao was done like a baby by Marquez and put to sleep.

Edge goes to Mayweather by a landslide.

[Purse Bid Shakedown]

A fair analysis of common opponents and not a trolling effort like Fergus:

1. Shane Mosley – Ws out of the ring for nearly a year after his defeat to Cotto. His comeback was against Mayorga. Anyone who seen this fight, and knows Sugar Shane, could see he was finished. Most had him behind against Mayorga, a fighter several levels below Shane, and it took a bingo punch in the final seconds of round 12 to get the job done. There was no difference in the version of Mosley that Floyd & Pacquiao fought. He was soundly beaten by both, ran for his life against Pacquiao and made to look a pensioner against Floyd after round 3. Did well to compete with Alvarez a year later.


2. Miguel Cotto - Neither man got the best version of Cotto. There is little doubt Floyd got a better version by fighting Cotto at the 154lb weight limit, which he seemed pretty proud of in the Kellerman face-off (Begs the question why allow Cotto to fight at 154 but not Canelo?). I think a prime Cotto was the early welterweight version that stopped zab and beat Mosley, the signature left hook. Pacquiao got a version that had not only lost his way somewhat in terms of technically ability due to trainer issues, but a Cotto that had clearly out grown the weight class. Mayweather still didn't get a prime Cotto but he got a healthier one. Cotto is now rejuvinated under Roach, were Floyd or Pacquiao to rematch him at 154lb, I'd favour Cotto.

3. Ricky Hatton - A 140lb fighter. Was disadvantaged by the extra weight vs Floyd at 147. On the flip side, against Pacquiao, it was in his native 140lb class but he already had the demons of the Floyd knock-out on his record. Was coming off an outstanding performance (1 of his best imo) against Malignaggi, stopping him. Who got the better version? Neither, and it didn't matter, he could be in the Prime of his life & on PED's and it wouldn't make a difference he was never in that league and his style wasn't cut out for either man.

4. Oscar De La Hoya - No question Mayweather got a better version, all-though, still well past his prime. Oscar was one of Pacquiao's best performances, a big underdog, Pacquiao brought his absolute A-game, not that he would have needed it against an DeLaHoya who badly overestimated his body's ability to make Welterweight. It's a shame Floyd decided against the rematch vs ODLH, the glory of beating Oscar from pillar-to-post would have been his and maybe we might not have seen the rise to superstardom for Pac.

5. Juan Manuel Marquez – There's no question that Pacquiao has faced the very best of Marquez. At featherweight, at superfeatherweight, at a JMM requested 144 catchweight, and finally at the full Welterweight limit. Floyd on the other hand had Marquez shift up 2 weights to a 144 catchweight which Floyd couldn't make, paying a token fine to further bolster his weight advantage. The 2-weight class jump also seen Marquez enter the ring in awful condition. Marquez complained after the fight that Floyd had 20lb on him.

1. Didn't Shane have another bad performance vs Mora before Manny faced him?? Regardless, Floyd had the much better version especially since Manny and Roach turned down facing Shane at 142 even though Mosley agreed to it.

2. Cotto was a battered and bruised fighter (body and ego) after the drubbing he received from Margarito loaded gloves, so there's no question that Floyd received a better version that was not only recovered but at a higher weight and not weight drained like Manny did to him for Miguel's title.

3. Hatton was garbage by the time Manny got to him, Lazcano had nearly KO'd him and before that there was no talk of Pacquiao wanting any part of him but then after they see he had been raped over the course of the entire fight taking damage from Floyd along with the KO and then being put on Queer Street vs Lazcano then and only then did they feel the cherry was ready to be picked. Another one that without a doubt Floyd had the better version of.

4. DLH did not overestimate his ability to make WW, he knew he couldn't but he wanted the big payday and everyone and their mommas reported that Oscar wasn't training, was totally drained and was getting mauled by the tiny Valero in sparring. Why this was such a big win for Manny is beyond me. Floyd faced a much better version without a doubt, not drained into a zombie skeleton like the version of DLH that Pacquiao faced.

5. I never saw a complaint by JMM about Mayweather having 20lbs over him, that never happens because Floyd rarely comes in at or above the WW limit, physically I would say that JMM was better prepared in his one punch sleepytime KO performance over Manny than he had been physically in his fight with Floyd. People might not remember that JMM was in great condition though because he was drinking his own piss (lol) and claimed that he was more ready then than he was in 3 fights vs Manny.

The difference being Floyd totally outclassed and befuddled Marquez all night long and Pacquiao was done like a baby by Marquez and put to sleep.

Edge goes to Mayweather by a landslide.

That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

[Ricky_]

A fair analysis of common opponents and not a trolling effort like Fergus:

1. Shane Mosley – Ws out of the ring for nearly a year after his defeat to Cotto. His comeback was against Mayorga. Anyone who seen this fight, and knows Sugar Shane, could see he was finished. Most had him behind against Mayorga, a fighter several levels below Shane, and it took a bingo punch in the final seconds of round 12 to get the job done. There was no difference in the version of Mosley that Floyd & Pacquiao fought. He was soundly beaten by both, ran for his life against Pacquiao and made to look a pensioner against Floyd after round 3. Did well to compete with Alvarez a year later.


2. Miguel Cotto - Neither man got the best version of Cotto. There is little doubt Floyd got a better version by fighting Cotto at the 154lb weight limit, which he seemed pretty proud of in the Kellerman face-off (Begs the question why allow Cotto to fight at 154 but not Canelo?). I think a prime Cotto was the early welterweight version that stopped zab and beat Mosley, the signature left hook. Pacquiao got a version that had not only lost his way somewhat in terms of technically ability due to trainer issues, but a Cotto that had clearly out grown the weight class. Mayweather still didn't get a prime Cotto but he got a healthier one. Cotto is now rejuvinated under Roach, were Floyd or Pacquiao to rematch him at 154lb, I'd favour Cotto.

3. Ricky Hatton - A 140lb fighter. Was disadvantaged by the extra weight vs Floyd at 147. On the flip side, against Pacquiao, it was in his native 140lb class but he already had the demons of the Floyd knock-out on his record. Was coming off an outstanding performance (1 of his best imo) against Malignaggi, stopping him. Who got the better version? Neither, and it didn't matter, he could be in the Prime of his life & on PED's and it wouldn't make a difference he was never in that league and his style wasn't cut out for either man.

4. Oscar De La Hoya - No question Mayweather got a better version, all-though, still well past his prime. Oscar was one of Pacquiao's best performances, a big underdog, Pacquiao brought his absolute A-game, not that he would have needed it against an DeLaHoya who badly overestimated his body's ability to make Welterweight. It's a shame Floyd decided against the rematch vs ODLH, the glory of beating Oscar from pillar-to-post would have been his and maybe we might not have seen the rise to superstardom for Pac.

5. Juan Manuel Marquez – There's no question that Pacquiao has faced the very best of Marquez. At featherweight, at superfeatherweight, at a JMM requested 144 catchweight, and finally at the full Welterweight limit. Floyd on the other hand had Marquez shift up 2 weights to a 144 catchweight which Floyd couldn't make, paying a token fine to further bolster his weight advantage. The 2-weight class jump also seen Marquez enter the ring in awful condition. Marquez complained after the fight that Floyd had 20lb on him.

1. Didn't Shane have another bad performance vs Mora before Manny faced him?? Regardless, Floyd had the much better version especially since Manny and Roach turned down facing Shane at 142 even though Mosley agreed to it.

2. Cotto was a battered and bruised fighter (body and ego) after the drubbing he received from Margarito loaded gloves, so there's no question that Floyd received a better version that was not only recovered but at a higher weight and not weight drained like Manny did to him for Miguel's title.

3. Hatton was garbage by the time Manny got to him, Lazcano had nearly KO'd him and before that there was no talk of Pacquiao wanting any part of him but then after they see he had been raped over the course of the entire fight taking damage from Floyd along with the KO and then being put on Queer Street vs Lazcano then and only then did they feel the cherry was ready to be picked. Another one that without a doubt Floyd had the better version of.

4. DLH did not overestimate his ability to make WW, he knew he couldn't but he wanted the big payday and everyone and their mommas reported that Oscar wasn't training, was totally drained and was getting mauled by the tiny Valero in sparring. Why this was such a big win for Manny is beyond me. Floyd faced a much better version without a doubt, not drained into a zombie skeleton like the version of DLH that Pacquiao faced.

5. I never saw a complaint by JMM about Mayweather having 20lbs over him, that never happens because Floyd rarely comes in at or above the WW limit, physically I would say that JMM was better prepared in his one punch sleepytime KO performance over Manny than he had been physically in his fight with Floyd. People might not remember that JMM was in great condition though because he was drinking his own piss (lol) and claimed that he was more ready then than he was in 3 fights vs Manny.

The difference being Floyd totally outclassed and befuddled Marquez all night long and Pacquiao was done like a baby by Marquez and put to sleep.

Edge goes to Mayweather by a landslide.

That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

He's not an idiot. He's a superfan.

"dear floyd I wrote you but you still ain't callin, I left my cell my home and my pager across the bottom"

[koolkc107]

That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

It was not Pac's fault DLH was so full of hubris as to think he could drain himself down to a weight he hadn't fought at in 8 years and still function.

Anyone with common sense knew exactly what time it was when Oscar's bones stepped on the scale...and the odd idiots who didn't know got one more clue when they reported Oscar's lack of hydration pre-fight. Pac, who you rightly point out could have been considered a jr. lightweight at the time, outweighed DLH (a natural jr middleweight) on fight night.

People who knew, knew.

No argument that 147 was Cotto's best weight. But that has nothing to do with the fact that by the time he fought Pac, he was no longer a natural 147 pounder. Miguel was talking about how hard making 147 was the fight prior to the one he had with Pac. Cotto never fought below jr. middle again (yeah, the catchweight with "Cheato was bogus, but not even close to the crap Pac pulled fighting Margarito, and even understandable in certain sense given what Antonio did the first fight).

Trout did not 'manhandle" Cotto. He boxed extremely well and rightfully earned a lopsided decision. But a lot of the rounds were close even though they rightfully went to Austin. And you have some who who even say Cotto was still "hung over" from what Floyd did to him.

But, when Cotto fought Floyd, he was two and a half years removed from the fight with Pac- plenty of time to get over any damage especially given the fact Miguel had a pretty easy time of it in the fights leading up to his match with Floyd. By contrast, less than 16 months went by between the cement beating and Cotto's forced catchweight with Manny and in that time he'd had at least one grueling encounter (with Clottey) to boot.

Just no comparison if you look at it objectively.

[KBB]

That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

Wow, did I call you any names??

Why do you feel the need to turn these threads into sh*t with your childishness??

Who honestly gives a damn about what these boxing writers say? Most of them are way to biased to consider themselves a true Journalist, as far as your analysis of Cotto; the only person to destroy him was Margo and that was with loaded gloves----the rematch proved that Margo wasn't the same without his cheatproof method.

You thought that what Trout did was manhandle Cotto? LOL, maybe you are one of those boxing writers you referred to earlier. Evidence shows that Manny and Freddie scouted DLH for exactly what he was at that time (finished). Valero beat Oscar up much worse than Manny did, I know you will go on calling names and whatnot and that is your prerogative but the fact of the matter is Manny Pacquiao beat a skeletonized zombie in that version of Oscar he faced.

A man who hadn't trained at all, a man who was fighting at a weight he hadn't in over 7 years, a man who was getting beaten up by a 130lber and one who had been previously handled by Floyd and Forbes busted him up too.

Like I said before; the only people who thought Manny beating Oscar was something so special are/were the misinformed.

[KBB]

That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

It was not Pac's fault DLH was so full of hubris as to think he could drain himself down to a weight he hadn't fought at in 8 years and still function.

Anyone with common sense knew exactly what time it was when Oscar's bones stepped on the scale...and the odd idiots who didn't know got one more clue when they reported Oscar's lack of hydration pre-fight. Pac, who you rightly point out could have been considered a jr. lightweight at the time, outweighed DLH (a natural jr middleweight) on fight night.

People who knew, knew.

No argument that 147 was Cotto's best weight. But that has nothing to do with the fact that by the time he fought Pac, he was no longer a natural 147 pounder. Miguel was talking about how hard making 147 was the fight prior to the one he had with Pac. Cotto never fought below jr. middle again (yeah, the catchweight with "Cheato was bogus, but not even close to the crap Pac pulled fighting Margarito, and even understandable in certain sense given what Antonio did the first fight).

Trout did not 'manhandle" Cotto. He boxed extremely well and rightfully earned a lopsided decision. But a lot of the rounds were close even though they rightfully went to Austin. And you have some who who even say Cotto was still "hung over" from what Floyd did to him.

But, when Cotto fought Floyd, he was two and a half years removed from the fight with Pac- plenty of time to get over any damage especially given the fact Miguel had a pretty easy time of it in the fights leading up to his match with Floyd. By contrast, less than 16 months went by between the cement beating and Cotto's forced catchweight with Manny and in that time he'd had at least one grueling encounter (with Clottey) to boot.

Just no comparison if you look at it objectively.

Something he's obviously incapable of doing and will label anyone who disagrees with him an idiot even though you point out the facts.

[Purse Bid Shakedown]

That's cause you're an idiot, Brut. Pac had a single fight above 130, was an underdog to DLH, huge underdog with boxing writers. Look how it turned out. And sure, Oscar decided to go out like that, quitting on his stool vs an underdog midget, for a decent payday.

Lots more garbage up there. For one, Cotto's best weight isn't 154, it's 147. FFS he demanded 150 with a 160 rehydration weight (!) to defend vs one eyed non contender Margarito. Then got manhandled by natural SWW Trout, man vs boy. And how's Cotto better for getting destroyed 2x vs 1x before Pac? He didn't do jack at 154.

It was not Pac's fault DLH was so full of hubris as to think he could drain himself down to a weight he hadn't fought at in 8 years and still function.

Anyone with common sense knew exactly what time it was when Oscar's bones stepped on the scale...and the odd idiots who didn't know got one more clue when they reported Oscar's lack of hydration pre-fight. Pac, who you rightly point out could have been considered a jr. lightweight at the time, outweighed DLH (a natural jr middleweight) on fight night.

People who knew, knew.

No argument that 147 was Cotto's best weight. But that has nothing to do with the fact that by the time he fought Pac, he was no longer a natural 147 pounder. Miguel was talking about how hard making 147 was the fight prior to the one he had with Pac. Cotto never fought below jr. middle again (yeah, the catchweight with "Cheato was bogus, but not even close to the crap Pac pulled fighting Margarito, and even understandable in certain sense given what Antonio did the first fight).

Trout did not 'manhandle" Cotto. He boxed extremely well and rightfully earned a lopsided decision. But a lot of the rounds were close even though they rightfully went to Austin. And you have some who who even say Cotto was still "hung over" from what Floyd did to him.

But, when Cotto fought Floyd, he was two and a half years removed from the fight with Pac- plenty of time to get over any damage especially given the fact Miguel had a pretty easy time of it in the fights leading up to his match with Floyd. By contrast, less than 16 months went by between the cement beating and Cotto's forced catchweight with Manny and in that time he'd had at least one grueling encounter (with Clottey) to boot.

Just no comparison if you look at it objectively.

People who knew excluded a vast majority of boxing writers, bookmakers, Team DLH including Oscar, Schaefer, Nacho, Dundee. Mostly message board posters from the future.

Cotto never talked about moving up before Pac, easily made weight one fight prior, and later on requested a 160 rehydration limit for a 154 title defense. doesn't sound like a guy that outgrew 147. If he was drained, how come he ran like the wind from the midget for 6+ rounds straight? Can't do that drained. Having a couple of gimme fights will not heal your confidence after getting demolished like that 2x.

[KBB]

People who knew excluded a vast majority of boxing writers, bookmakers, Team DLH including Oscar, Schaefer, Nacho, Dundee. Mostly message board posters from the future.

Cotto never talked about moving up before Pac, easily made weight one fight prior, and later on requested a 160 rehydration limit for a 154 title defense. doesn't sound like a guy that outgrew 147. If he was drained, how come he ran like the wind from the midget for 6+ rounds straight? Can't do that drained. Having a couple of gimme fights will not heal your confidence after getting demolished like that 2x.

You continue to refer to these boxing writers, like who, Skip Bayless? Cotto had been struggling with his weight as far back as the Corley fight, I was stationed in Puerto Rico at the time they fought and Miguel was so desperate to lose the weight that he was spotted driving around in his car with the heat on full blast. I met Vince Phillips who was there sparring with Miguel at the time in the Plaza Las Americas who confirmed that Miguel was having a hard time losing the weight.

Boxing insiders know of Miguel's struggles, even Roach knew which is exactly why he demanded Miguel come in at 145. Why else would they need to handicap Cotto if they were supposed to be so superior, why not fight him at the WW limit?

There was a reason Roach wanted that fight at that weight and it should be obvious to anyone who isn't a blinded Pacquiao fan, he knew it would give Manny an advantage.

[SFW]

How about we ignore the past, since it means absolutely nothing now. Floyd's finally slowing down a bit, and his hands probly will be an issue at some point. Manny still has the same defensive holes and bad habits he has shown for awhile now. Plus he got knocked out by Memo.

Neither of these guys are the same as when they fought the names mentioned. They are diminished. Which makes a closer fight. A fair decision or clear ending is all I want to see.