Tossing Out Names : Do They Belong In The IBHOF ?

[wsbuf]

Tommy Paul was NBA Featherweight Champion.

Beat: Frankie Genaro, Bushy Graham (2x), Freddie Miller, Fidal LaBarba. Had draws with Panama Al Brown, Kid Chocolate and Sarron. Beat many top Bantam's and feathers.

Was rated top 10 in Bantam or Featherweights for 66 months. (5 1/2 years of his 9-year career)

[Seamus]

To me, Jimmy Leto may be the number 1 fighter of alltime who's not in the IBHOF.

[Ambling Alp II]

This is kind of fun.
Here a few more to discuss:

George Gardner
Roger Mayweather
Eddie Booker
Paul Pender
Marvin Johnson

[GL14]

Booker is a maybe. A shame his eyes portrayed him

[stevedoc]

Is buddy mcgirt in it ? If not I'd recommend him

[Seamus]

McGirt isn't in but he has a decent argument.

[elmersalsa]

These guys are worthy of the hall of fame:
Lew Feldman
Ernesto "Nato" Marcel
Hilario Zapata
Esteban De Jesus
Wilfredo Vazquez

[GL14]

McGirt isn't in but he has a decent argument.

I think he's one solid-good win away to be an argument

[Ambling Alp II]

I think you could make an argument, but yes one big win would make it a lot better. The Simon Brown win was huge, but after that there is a falloff; a lot of decent wins but nothing special. Giving Whitaker trouble would probably be the next best thing you could point out.

There are a dozens of guys that you could make an argument for that aren't in. I recently mentioned George Gardner, Roger Mayweather, Eddie Booker, Paul Pender, and Marvin Johnson. You can make a case for any of them. However, Eddie Booker is the only one that definitely should be in.

Marcel, DeJesus and Vazquez were mentioned recently and you could make a decent case for them. However, I wouldn't say any of them have been ripped off.

[Seamus]

Regarding names tossed out by others I missed.

Wilfredo Vazquez YES
Eddie Booker YES
Hilario Zapata YES

Paul Pender Very close. Has an argument.
Ernesto Marcel. Very close. Has an argument.

Roger Mayweather NO
Tommy Paul NO (wish I could say yes based on his opposition)
Lew Feldman NO
George Gardner NO
Esteban DeJesus NO
Marvin Johnson NO

[Ambling Alp II]

Pretty much in agreement, except I think you can make a decent argument for Marvin Johnson.

He had the big win over Galindez, and several other nice wins. His losses were to Saad Muhammad (2x) in great fights, Spinks, Mustapha Muhammad, a ridiculous decision reversal, and a loss to Stewart at the end of his career.

[Old bones Ian]

Sung Kil Moon
Ceferino Garcia
Nigel Benn
Lloyd Honeyghan

[Seamus]

Sung Kil Moon. I'm going to say YES. Only won 20 fights in his career, but took the title in just his 7th pro fight. How many guys can say that in their career they never faced a fighter with a losing record ? Moon can make that claim, and if he'd have done like most other fighters and taken the easier route up the later he could easily have notched another 10-15 wins before going for the title.

Ceferino Garcia. NO
Nigel Benn. I think he has a decent argument, and I certainly wouldn't complain if he got in, in fact I kinda expect it.
Lloyd Honeyghan. NO. Too short of a peak period.

[Ambling Alp II]

All good fighters, would not put any in.

Moon-If you are going only win 20 fights, you have to do something really big. He has the win over Galaxy, but that's about it. He fought in a division that never has any depth and shouldn't even exist.

Garcia, Honeyghan and Benn had some nice wins but nothing earth shattering. There are certainly worse guys in, but there are others not in that were better.

[Old bones Ian]

Moon did win amateur world title as well, and beat Gilberto Roman, Kenji Matsumura, Konadu, Ernesto Ford, Torsak Pongsupa, Armando Salazar, Greg Richardson, Hilario Zapata and Carlos Gabriel Salazar. I would say that's some going in 20 fights. Konadu and Salazar would go on to be good world champions, so are stand out wins as well.
I think the whole package is worthy of Ibhof

[Ambling Alp II]

How much credit he should get for his amateur career is debatable. Some people ignore amateur careers completely. Salazar was never a world champion. Konadu won a title from a guy in his 5th pro fight.

The problem with rating fighters in the low weight divisions is that there is very little depth.
There are so few fighters in these weight classes so you have a shallow talent pool to begin with.

How big of a deal is it to be one of 3 or 4 "champions" of a weight division that only spans three pounds?

[Old bones Ian]

How much credit he should get for his amateur career is debatable. Some people ignore amateur careers completely. Salazar was never a world champion. Konadu won a title from a guy in his 5th pro fight.

The problem with rating fighters in the low weight divisions is that there is very little depth.
There are so few fighters in these weight classes so you have a shallow talent pool to begin with.

How big of a deal is it to be one of 3 or 4 "champions" of a weight division that only spans three pounds?

Carlos Gabriel Salazar won the IBF super fly and then the WBO flyweight title, he had a 6-3-2 record in world title fights after losing to Moon.

[Seamus]

Next 5

Willie Joyce
Paddy DeMarco
Horacio Accavallo
Juan Coggi
Young Peter Jackson

[Ambling Alp II]

How much credit he should get for his amateur career is debatable. Some people ignore amateur careers completely. Salazar was never a world champion. Konadu won a title from a guy in his 5th pro fight.

The problem with rating fighters in the low weight divisions is that there is very little depth.
There are so few fighters in these weight classes so you have a shallow talent pool to begin with.

How big of a deal is it to be one of 3 or 4 "champions" of a weight division that only spans three pounds?

Carlos Gabriel Salazar won the IBF super fly and then the WBO flyweight title, he had a 6-3-2 record in world title fights after losing to Moon.

Sorry, I had a different guy named Salazar that he fought.

[Ambling Alp II]

Next 5

Willie Joyce
Paddy DeMarco
Horacio Accavallo
Juan Coggi
Young Peter Jackson

Willie Joyce probably has the best case. He had a lot of losses but some really quality wins.

[Scypion]

Rodrigo Valdez?

[Seamus]

I sure wouldn't object to Valdes getting in. Excellent fighter who could punch, take a punch, bob and weave, and had lot's of stamina.

[Ambling Alp II]

He's not a slam dunk, but probably should be in.

[Seamus]

Next
Santos Laciar
Michael Nunn
Donald Curry
Miguel Lora
Betulio Gonzalez

[giacomino]

Next
Santos Laciar
Michael Nunn
Donald Curry
Miguel Lora
Betulio Gonzalez

Could make the case for all five, but not all soo-ins, IMO
-Laciar, yes. Held a flyweight belt fighting quality competition in a very strong era until he didn't want the belt, then beat one of the best lt. bantamweights ever (Gilberto Roman) for his belt when Laciar was probably past his best
-Nunn and Curry, both very impressive, relatively short runs, scored KO wins in unification bouts (Kalambay stripped before fight but to me it still counts), one KO loss started careers downward, but could make a case for both
-Happy Lora, great run as bantamweight beltholder, like Laciar, I loved watching him fight. Beat Zaragoza and Vazquez (two HOFers or close to HOFers) and Davila twice. Didn't unify and lost three big fights late
- Gonzalez. three-time flyweight beltholder in an era of great flyweight champions. 1-2 against the great Miguel Canto, all extremely close decisions. Four of his title fight losses were SD, another was a one-point UD loss in Japan. Was good enough to still give Laciar a tough fight near his mid-30s, and many of his title fight losses were to HOFers or near HOFers