Carlos Monzon v John Conteh

[Roco]

What happens here? Guess it would be at light heavy.

[Seamus]

If Monzon could have done well at LHW he would have moved up. Conteh stopped HW's at a few lbs over 175. I very strongly suspect, that if Monzon came in over 160, he'd get demolished by Conteh's speed and power.

[misterpunch]

this

[BoxBuzz]

As I understand it, (things I read long ago growing up in Arizona) Monzon and Galindez often sparred. And from what was written, the take was that Monzon looked good, and appeared to have the upper hand. Also that Galindez remarked on not having confidence of defeating Monzon in a real affair. Not sure if this was just countrymen being patronizing or not.

I believe I read somewhere that Monzon "kinda sorta" called Conteh out...but nothing materialized on this.

I don't see why it has to be considered a slam dunk. But I suppose fair conjecture would favor Conteh.

[Seamus]

Oh Buzz Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez !

[BoxBuzz]

Oh Buzz Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez !

ShameUs.....tell us how you really feel.

By the way....when we happen to agree do you take offense?

Or do you simply doubt the Galindez story?

[Seamus]

Put it this way. I fancy Monzon's chances against Sugar Ray Leonard a heck of alot more than I would if he faced Conteh. If Monzon thought he could have had an impact at 175 he would have, so would Hagler. Doesn't take away from there legacy because they didn't, in fact I give them a little credit for having the sense not to tempt disaster.

[BoxBuzz]

Put it this way. I fancy Monzon's chances against Sugar Ray Leonard a heck of alot more than I would if he faced Conteh. If Monzon thought he could have had an impact at 175 he would have, so would Hagler. Doesn't take away from there legacy because they didn't, in fact I give them a little credit for having the sense not to tempt disaster.

I agree with all that. Though I did read that he blustered re: Conteh at some point.

[misterpunch]

I heard that tony gallento called people out too when he was in the gym - conteh never called guys out. so what's your point buzz?

big mouths win fights?

[bennie]

No one-handed fighter would ever beat Monzon.

[Seamus]

OK, so that leaves out The Prince.

[misterpunch]

true about john's hand problems, bennie, but conteh was more than capable of finishing monzon even with his limited resources.

[BoxBuzz]

true about john's hand problems, bennie, but conteh was more than capable of finishing monzon even with his limited resources.

Now you're getting into the outer limits. No Cake walk, and no guaranteed outcome....no KO.....and Conteh win or lose, probably won't feel like a winner when the fight concludes.

[Seamus]

And that assumption of course is based on the belief that Monzon's durability, punching power, etc would be carried up to the Light Heavyweight division.

[BoxBuzz]

Loosely yes...I suppose. Especially if the Galindez expressed opinion is a fact. I don't know if those statements are rumor or via good reporting.

Do you imagine it would be a lop sided beat down based on the weight difference?

[Seamus]

Well as good as Bob Foster was, he seemed to have a real problem bulking up for the next weight division. Foster's natural build was very slender. I've seen pictures of Monzon in street clothes and at the beach, and he was a pretty slender guy as well. Going after the LHW title would surely have earned him his biggest payday and given him the opportunity to rank at the very top of his sport. I can't suspect anything else but that he had some serious doubts. So yes if Monzon came in at say 165, I don't see him withstanding Conteh's shot's all night.

[misterpunch]

and conteh was a big light heavy - nearly decided on a career at heavyweight and his team thought he'd get the better of bugner if they ever met. so monzon's got much to think about against this fella - mostly "hhmm, perhaps not"

[cfang]

This really is an interesting one. Yes Conteh beat a few heavys but I think that's not relevant. He was a lt heavy and a lt heavy champion. Yes he had hand trouble and had some good wins. I remember his fights with saad well. He was certainly a fabulous fighter but I think you'd be stretching it to call him an all time great. He was a good champion but didn't beat any legends or really dominate his era either with a string of defences.

Then ofc you've got Monzon who although a weight down was a legend and one of the greatest fighters of all time. I really think that even at lt heavy the class of the legend will be enough to beat the good here. Monzon PTS15

[BoxBuzz]

I've notice a pattern of thinking. It goes something like this.

Fighters who fought outside their typical weight class and had some success....whether up or down the scale, get points for their adventures.

Fighters who locked themselves into a single weight class, for whatever reason.....seem to be assessed more narrowly.


I get the "experiential model" of assessing. However are their some "styles" or "body types" that would bring other bias to this other than just experience?
So when Monzon gets "typecast" is it for any other reason, that he just didn't wander? If it's the "style" or body/build type I would imaginer that in Monzon's case, it would probably work to his advantage.
But others may think differently.


Greb demonstrated his ability to get the job done at multiple weight classes as did Armstrong.

So one can extrapolate two things from their demonstrated ability.

1. Those fighters and those fighters alone had this uncanny ability to "transcend" weight classes:

OR

2. Many could demonstrate this ability, but some choose not to.

And for those who chose not to....perhaps NO assumption should be made. Or just assume that anyone who chose not to venture out beyond one weight class, probably could do what Greb and Armsrtong showed could be done. As long as they were an extraordinary fighter. Surely that's what the Leonard folks are banking on when they surmise he could do well vs Monzon. Seems a far shorter reach for Monzon over Conteh, than SRL over Monzon. And frankly if the Galindez comments are factual....Id' say it goes a long way to projecting a win for Monzon.

[Seamus]

Not at all. Monzon has the greater legacy and ranks way higher than Conteh PFP, but because Greb was able to move up to LHW and give Gene Tunney a beating, or because Sugar Ray Robinson dominated Joey Maxim thru 13 rds, doesn't mean that Monzon, Hagler, and others would have accomplished the same thing. The bottomline is that these guys could have had superfights by moving to LHW and they obviously didn't feel confident enough to try. Greb, Robinson and some others did.

[misterpunch]

buzz - you have got to stop quoting victor galindez

his opinion has no more validity about who would win than anyone else

I liked your post re the assessment of fighters who stay/move weights but both these guys pretty much stuck to their divisions; monzon being a regular sized middleweight and conteh being a big lightheavy who was not quite big enough to make real inroads at heavy.
carlos made his rep at that weight and comes fairly close to deserving the rep he has today on this website (top 3 all time MW) - I share that opinion

conteh's rep is at LH and he does not feature in his weight classes top 5 in most peoples opinion.

that said, he is still good enough at his best to use his assets, his skills, his movement and his power to beat CM

what galindez said or didn't say is of no purpose and holds no weight

[BoxBuzz]

buzz - you have got to stop quoting victor galindez

his opinion has no more validity about who would win than anyone else

I liked your post re the assessment of fighters who stay/move weights but both these guys pretty much stuck to their divisions; monzon being a regular sized middleweight and conteh being a big lightheavy who was not quite big enough to make real inroads at heavy.
carlos made his rep at that weight and comes fairly close to deserving the rep he has today on this website (top 3 all time MW) - I share that opinion

conteh's rep is at LH and he does not feature in his weight classes top 5 in most peoples opinion.

that said, he is still good enough at his best to use his assets, his skills, his movement and his power to beat CM

what galindez said or didn't say is of no purpose and holds no weight

Is this because you say so? lol.

Sparring with a great LHW that gives a positive assessment means nothing? (If it's a fact)

But you assuring me that it's meaningless is top drawer?


I'm kinda sorta kiddin' here.....but look at those words I just wrote.....their sort of hard to read without a grin.


I would think that if Galindez was impressed just maybe Conteh would be as well. Just sayin'....


But you can assure me that such is not the case? Get back to me on this, so that the matter can be settled once and for all.

[Seamus]

Sparring stories are like fish stories.

[Arbachakov]

Conteh was a beast circa 75 before his hand injuries and partying lifestyle saw him decline too soon.A ruthless Napoles-esque two handed boxer-puncher.

With Monzon not at all having a suitable style for excelling at higher weights, i see this as a fight that would have made Conteh's name in a Gomez vs Zarate, Sanchez vs Gomez, Pryor vs Arguello sort of sense.

[Arbachakov]

Galindez would have beat Monzon too regardless of what he says about sparring or anything like that imo.With national pride on the line like it would have been, no way a physical beast like Victor loses to a smaller man without a good style for moving up and taking on bigger fighters.

monzon's defensive approach of leaning and swaying back from punches, that worked well when he was the bigger man as he usually was at middle, would invite disaster against excellent light heavies.