labouring and boxing

[dalcumly]

Having just read the article in last months Boxing Monthly on Liam Williams, and the decision to end the fighters roofing career to concentrate on boxing full time, it got me thinking.
I don't suppose the any of the modern 'fitness scientists' will agree, but I feel that heavy lifting on a daily basis gives boxers a certain toughness/robustness which can never be replicated in the gym. There's a particular strength in the shoulders and surprisingly in the forearms, which gives an advantage.
I have a very early video of Tony Sibson running up a ladder carrying 4 concrete blocks on the hod ( believe me, thats hard) and at the time he was knocking everyone over. He went full time in London and there was something missing. He returned to Leicester, and his old trainer, Ken Squires knew the answer - training and hard physical graft. Ken ,famously, had Sibson out in the fields with an axe hacking away at tree trunks for hours, and it was not a publicity stunt. The power came back.

Of course when you become wealthy and are a star performer its a lot more difficult to even consider going back onto a building site just for 'training ' purposes.

In the 'old days' boxers had day jobs, usually doing some sort of manual work, and the training at night concentrated on technique not physical fitness - they didn't need that !! I see a lot of the training methods in magazines and many of the moves are simply copying physical movements previously carried out in various factories.

Am I just a silly old sentimental clown????

[Controversial]

There's a lot to be said for physical work building up strength that maybe training cannot replicate. Different sport but there was a strongman a few years ago, a British farmer called Mark Westaby who started entering strength competitions in his late 30s. Apparently he never lifted weights in a gym before but worked on a farm all his life and lifting bales of hay and general physical graft got him to be one of the strongest guys in the UK.

[leejonesjnr]

We trained a group of novices to take part in a white collar boxing event.
One of them had incredible natural strength despite not being in the best shape.
He was a farmer too. This came to light when he had a niggle in his shoulder and when I asked him how he got it the astonishing reply was 'lifting a cow out of a ditch'.
With regards having advantage in the boxing ring..... the ref stopped the fight 60 seconds into round one for his safety.

[Controversial]

We trained a group of novices to take part in a white collar boxing event.
One of them had incredible natural strength despite not being in the best shape.
He was a farmer too. This came to light when he had a niggle in his shoulder and when I asked him how he got it the astonishing reply was 'lifting a cow out of a ditch'.
With regards having advantage in the boxing ring..... the ref stopped the fight 60 seconds into round one for his safety.

Thats this thing, pure strength has no real advantage. It doesn't make you punch harder and doesn't make your chin better. Plenty of muscle bound heavyweights around who couldn't crack an egg.

[kamicazze]

For all the silver linings you can think of in any job, it's better to have boxing as a job.

I used to do labouring and would go boxing later. Now if I'd used a jackhammer or the shovel all day, my shoulders were already gone meaning I'd be limited with what I'd get out that session.

Years later I am now working in an office/call centre. In theory, great my body gets a rest. In reality my brain is burned out come the end of the working day so to try digest new skills in the evening is extra hard.

A few years ago I was out of work for 7 weeks and during this time along with looking for a job I trained twice a day. With out the physical or mental fatigue, my skills must have improved by 50% or more.

[johnnygreaves]

We trained a group of novices to take part in a white collar boxing event.
One of them had incredible natural strength despite not being in the best shape.
He was a farmer too. This came to light when he had a niggle in his shoulder and when I asked him how he got it the astonishing reply was 'lifting a cow out of a ditch'.
With regards having advantage in the boxing ring..... the ref stopped the fight 60 seconds into round one for his safety.

Thats this thing, pure strength has no real advantage. It doesn't make you punch harder and doesn't make your chin better. Plenty of muscle bound heavyweights around who couldn't crack an egg.

true that! You can't put muscle on your chin either. I was never a puncher so a few years ago after being picked on by a nightclub bouncer. Who was a monster of a man. I completely sparked him with a straight left. Even I was stunned

[fighting_irish]

Have to agree and disagree with OP. When i fought back in the 1990's i'm a bricklayer by trade, i was knocking people out for fun with minimum training and i mean minimum i was a lazy sod. But after a bit of time out of work due to the economy approx 1year i found it very hard going, guys were going 4 rounds with me and losing to guys who i'd beat in my sleep. As soon as i got back brickying i was 24 and within 3 months i was back to working 10 hour days and doing little or no gym time yet the KO'S were coming again and some against guys who had beaten me during me barren spell.

Maybe it was bad spell in my boxing days or maybe the hard work made it easier in the ring. Be great to get a definitive answer great topic by the way often thought about this since i hung up my gloves.

[danamba7]

Have to agree and disagree with OP. When i fought back in the 1990's i'm a bricklayer by trade, i was knocking people out for fun with minimum training and i mean minimum i was a lazy sod. But after a bit of time out of work due to the economy approx 1year i found it very hard going, guys were going 4 rounds with me and losing to guys who i'd beat in my sleep. As soon as i got back brickying i was 24 and within 3 months i was back to working 10 hour days and doing little or no gym time yet the KO'S were coming again and some against guys who had beaten me during me barren spell.

Maybe it was bad spell in my boxing days or maybe the hard work made it easier in the ring. Be great to get a definitive answer great topic by the way often thought about this since i hung up my gloves.

Could that not be down to confidence and being more self-assured that you're a bricklayer? I very rarely see a link between the 2 to be fair. And I'd put punching down to technique and accuracy over anything. I've lost count of the amount of labour lads round my way with a rep for being hard but when you see em throw a punch you actually feel sorry for em! Obviously chin/toughness is a separate thing entirely. I think the strength gained from labouring is more suited to MMA, especially the wrestling area of it e.g. Matt Hughes being ridiculously strong from working on the farms.

[dalcumly]

All comments so far are valuable. I'm not suggesting that being 'labour strong' makes or doesn't make you a good boxer or even a knockout puncher. What I'm saying is , that if you are a good boxer, good enough to turn pro, the physical strength brought about through hard work ,gives most a certain toughness which is hard to describe, and I don't believe THAT toughness, can be found in a gym. I might be wrong.

[Deserter]

For all the silver linings you can think of in any job, it's better to have boxing as a job.

I used to do labouring and would go boxing later. Now if I'd used a jackhammer or the shovel all day, my shoulders were already gone meaning I'd be limited with what I'd get out that session.

Years later I am now working in an office/call centre. In theory, great my body gets a rest. In reality my brain is burned out come the end of the working day so to try digest new skills in the evening is extra hard.

A few years ago I was out of work for 7 weeks and during this time along with looking for a job I trained twice a day. With out the physical or mental fatigue, my skills must have improved by 50% or more.

Good post

[arlovski]

interesting post. Thought about this myself recently, as i'm training a lad who's a plasterer and has grafted since he was 15 (now 21). It's obviously a physical job, and he says he's always made a point of doing the most on site - shifting+carrying more 20kg bags of plaster than anyone else etc.
As a result he's outrageously physically strong, (very heavy handed too, but i think that's more of a natural genetic gift).

I've had to scale back his conditioning and floor work in the gym as i don't want him burnt out, he works very hard during the day so this definitely has an impact on his overall condition - it's handy as i can really focus on skill development during the time i'm training with him.

So yeah, 'old school' conditioning through graft is working for me, worry about his recovery if and when he turns pro, but if it was good enough for that beast Sibson....

[Controversial]

We trained a group of novices to take part in a white collar boxing event.
One of them had incredible natural strength despite not being in the best shape.
He was a farmer too. This came to light when he had a niggle in his shoulder and when I asked him how he got it the astonishing reply was 'lifting a cow out of a ditch'.
With regards having advantage in the boxing ring..... the ref stopped the fight 60 seconds into round one for his safety.

Thats this thing, pure strength has no real advantage. It doesn't make you punch harder and doesn't make your chin better. Plenty of muscle bound heavyweights around who couldn't crack an egg.

true that! You can't put muscle on your chin either. I was never a puncher so a few years ago after being picked on by a nightclub bouncer. Who was a monster of a man. I completely sparked him with a straight left. Even I was stunned

Yep it happens. I saw a bloke get knocked out by his girlfriend in a club many years ago, he was chatting to another girl and his girlfriend punched him and laid him spark out, she was half his size. The shame. There is also a YouTube CCTV video showing a girl knocking a bouncer out.

[whiskey]

Im sure I read Tito Trinidad couldn't even bench 40kg, yet could knock through walls at welter.

He had those thin arms, like G-man McClellan and The Hawk.

I'd say neither of them looks like they'd lug concrete posts around or hod's of bricks.

I think labouring and a more physical grappling sport like BJJ would advantageous definitely - but everyone regarded as "strong" or can lift heavy has made a poor boxer. Unless it's natural tendon strength.

[Rexob]

For all the silver linings you can think of in any job, it's better to have boxing as a job.

I used to do labouring and would go boxing later. Now if I'd used a jackhammer or the shovel all day, my shoulders were already gone meaning I'd be limited with what I'd get out that session.

Years later I am now working in an office/call centre. In theory, great my body gets a rest. In reality my brain is burned out come the end of the working day so to try digest new skills in the evening is extra hard.

A few years ago I was out of work for 7 weeks and during this time along with looking for a job I trained twice a day. With out the physical or mental fatigue, my skills must have improved by 50% or more.

Good post

Your right

[hurlock]

There are not many flexible jobs a pro boxer can carry out! Construction is a big no no! It's a good grounding for fighters to realise how fortunate they are to concentrate on there trade.
I hate reading or hearing comments from fighters saying how hard it is and that a title fight makes it that little bit easier to get up to run or go the gym! Or if a fighter is full time & fleshy which is clearly a sign of poor dieting & not getting the best out of themself.

[kamicazze]

There are not many flexible jobs a pro boxer can carry out! Construction is a big no no! It's a good grounding for fighters to realise how fortunate they are to concentrate on there trade.
I hate reading or hearing comments from fighters saying how hard it is and that a title fight makes it that little bit easier to get up to run or go the gym! Or if a fighter is full time & fleshy which is clearly a sign of poor dieting & not getting the best out of themself.

Quite often a sup bar boxer will make it a lot further than his better more dedicated counterpart based on who he knows. Manages to get full time sponsorship which allows him to be a full time boxer.

[Tomasino]

All comments so far are valuable. I'm not suggesting that being 'labour strong' makes or doesn't make you a good boxer or even a knockout puncher. What I'm saying is , that if you are a good boxer, good enough to turn pro, the physical strength brought about through hard work ,gives most a certain toughness which is hard to describe, and I don't believe THAT toughness, can be found in a gym. I might be wrong.

I think am with you on this. My dad was a plasterer, very strong for 10st. He could lift a hundred weight bag of cement on his palm from the deck to above his head, easy. Once he gave it up, he remained strong for 20 years with minimum manual work. I think it's a combination of starting work at 14 and being beasted by tradesmen, mixing plaster by hand and plastering ceilings 10 hours a day.

I can lift heavier weight, but I had a bad patch 6 years ago and stopped training for 2 years, went fat and weak by the end of it, took me two years solid weight training to get it back.

[Sklar]

Always said that when working the doors that the hardest people to deal with are heavy skill tradesmen, labourers and farmers. They tend to have a numb, wiry strength and are far less predictable than trained fighters. You can almost always tell the difference between a gym queen and a labourer who also trains.

[littlepug]

Noticed back in the day that all the pros in the gym I trained in that also held down jobs were a lot fitter than the lads that only boxed, I just put it down to the long days they had to fill so were more likely to be doing stuff they shouldn't out of boredem

[stevedoc]

I was a screeder (cement flooring) and was the labourer while I boxed and I'd knock up 12 tonnes a day by hand and wheel it in then go training or sometimes fight ,it made me very stiff having said that I was also stronger than others at my weight . I think it makes you stronger but not better I'd be much better when I had some time away from the mixer

[Controversial]

Scaffolding is another job where blokes develop huge strength.

[lillywhite14]

Scaffolding is another job where blokes develop huge strength.

Definitely. I done a couple of weeks scaffolding a couple of years ago with a mate who needed a lorry driver/labourer for a bit. I've worked across almost every trade, roofing, bricklaying, tarmacing etc etc, been beasted since I was a kid.
I'd heard that carrying 3 long ( 21ft ) tubes was a bit of a feat so naturally when loading the lorry first day I instantly went in for 3 long. Awkward as eff if you've never done it before! I made hard work of it, didn't get in the right position etc but just forced myself to get on with it and saved face! Once you get to grips with the balancing of the tubes it makes it easier but it's hell of a workout ( depending on how hard you are pushed obviously! )
I actually enjoyed it but it was pretty hard going. Got a fair amount of mates in the game, some are freakishly strong, massive forearms/powerful grip.

My old man and my grandad are old school, ex-coal merchants turned General builders. My old man was out delivering hundred weight of coal on his back at age 14! My grandad would carry two hundred weight on his back all day long, sometimes three if he was challenged! I liked to think of myself as cut from the same cloth. Some of the things I did when younger at work make me shake my head now. Picking up cement mixers, floor saw cutters on my own with absolutely no regard for posture/form etc just because I could! Silliness of youth! My back isn't the best as a result!

[Rexob]

reminds me of that monty python sketch i worked 25 hours a day 8 days a week for a slice of bread.

[rpms]

reminds me of that monty python sketch i worked 25 hours a day 8 days a week for a slice of bread.

You were lucky !!

[Rexob]

reminds me of that monty python sketch i worked 25 hours a day 8 days a week for a slice of bread.

You were lucky !!