Were does the winner stand in History of Boxing?

[Chepppaaa]

this is what a typical list looks like, when an old school expert does a list of the 10 best boxers of all time.

1. sugar ray robinson
2. henry armstrong
3. sam langford
4. muhammad ali
5. joe louis
6. willie pepp
7. benny leonard
8. roberto duran
9. harry greb
10. jack dempsey

like most of you know, I go by who at his peak prime best is better than the opponent infront of him, because of athletic ability, speed, power and technic.

1. roy jones jr
2. sugar ray robinson
3. sugar ray leonard
4. mike tyson
5. muhammad ali
6. floyd mayweather jr
7. pernell whitacker
8. manny pacquiao
9. marvin hagler
10. ricardo lopez

so, if floyd won without any bullsh/()t than floyd would jump from 6 too 4, because he would have proved that he can deal with any sort of style, the tall guy corrales, the big strong guy canelo, the fast big puncher pacquiao. just technicly above mostly everyone.

if pac won, he would jump from 8 to 4, also because he would have shown that he can handle taller bigger guys lie margarito or oscar, but most importantly guys who are technicly superior to him like mayweather. meaning he can outpunch you, but he can also find his way against arguably the best or second best behind pernell defensive fighter of all time.

what is you take, your list, if floyd or manny won?

[tiny_acres]

I guess it depends on the dominance of the win

[stevedoc]

If Floyd wins it won't make that much difference for him as Manny clearly isn't the fighter he was 5 years ago if Manny wins he will be a top ten if not top 5/7 fighter around the Duran, Leonard level

[thunderfromdownunder]

A dominant win for either fighter IMO, give them a case for a top ten spot all time. Both guys already sit around 20-30. It would have meant more 5/6 years ago, but better late than never

[KBB]

If Floyd wins it won't make that much difference for him as Manny clearly isn't the fighter he was 5 years ago if Manny wins he will be a top ten if not top 5/7 fighter around the Duran, Leonard level

LOL at the double standards in this post!!

Wow this is some incredible crap to say, and to think all of us let him get away with stating this garbage. Shame of Boxrec's Boxing Fans, shame!!

[stevedoc]

If Floyd wins it won't make that much difference for him as Manny clearly isn't the fighter he was 5 years ago if Manny wins he will be a top ten if not top 5/7 fighter around the Duran, Leonard level

LOL at the double standards in this post!!

Wow this is some incredible crap to say, and to think all of us let him get away with stating this garbage. Shame of Boxrec's Boxing Fans, shame!!

So if Floyd wins a fight that he's a big favourite to win he jumps to the top of the ATG list ! Why he just beat someone most think he will a fighter that has lost twice in last few fights .

[Ricky_]

While there is no question the victor would have carried much more weight in 2010 than they will do now, both Floyd and Pacquiao belong on the company of Ali, Hearns, Armstrong, Duran, Leonard. They are both that good and on May 2nd, it might be the greatest amount of p4p boxing talent ever to have shared a ring. It's not too often you get 2 of the best p4p fighters in the same weight class or of similar age coming up against each other. I can't wait

[KBB]

While there is no question the victor would have carried much more weight in 2010 than they will do now, both Floyd and Pacquiao belong on the company of Ali, Hearns, Armstrong, Duran, Leonard. They are both that good and on May 2nd, it might be the greatest amount of p4p boxing talent ever to have shared a ring. It's not too often you get 2 of the best p4p fighters in the same weight class or of similar age coming up against each other. I can't wait

Amen to this!!

[stevedoc]

While there is no question the victor would have carried much more weight in 2010 than they will do now, both Floyd and Pacquiao belong on the company of Ali, Hearns, Armstrong, Duran, Leonard. They are both that good and on May 2nd, it might be the greatest amount of p4p boxing talent ever to have shared a ring. It's not too often you get 2 of the best p4p fighters in the same weight class or of similar age coming up against each other. I can't wait

Amen to this!!

This fight is closer to Leonard vs hearns 2 than hagler vs hearns ,both fighters are still good but past their best

[tiny_acres]

While there is no question the victor would have carried much more weight in 2010 than they will do now, both Floyd and Pacquiao belong on the company of Ali, Hearns, Armstrong, Duran, Leonard. They are both that good and on May 2nd, it might be the greatest amount of p4p boxing talent ever to have shared a ring. It's not too often you get 2 of the best p4p fighters in the same weight class or of similar age coming up against each other. I can't wait

Ricky this is by far Your best post. I agree 100%

[KBB]

While there is no question the victor would have carried much more weight in 2010 than they will do now, both Floyd and Pacquiao belong on the company of Ali, Hearns, Armstrong, Duran, Leonard. They are both that good and on May 2nd, it might be the greatest amount of p4p boxing talent ever to have shared a ring. It's not too often you get 2 of the best p4p fighters in the same weight class or of similar age coming up against each other. I can't wait

Amen to this!!

This fight is closer to Leonard vs hearns 2 than hagler vs hearns ,both fighters are still good but past their best

I think it's more close to SRL vs MHH than it is to any other comparison. It took SRL years to decide to face MHH just as it has taken Manny years to finally agree to sign a contract to face Mayweather.

[Chepppaaa]

yeah the amount of talent in this fight is truly spectacular. pacquiao looked like the pac of old days against algieri, just fresh. and floyd had some time taken off and relaxed after maidana II and maybe he can get to guerrero kind of shape, were he truly looked sharp. both arent prime, but both are heavy worker and boxers who train hardcore and dont balloon between fights like hatton did can always be near prime.

[Badhusker]

Roach recently said he would have favored Floyd 5 yrs ago but favors Manny now to win. Guess that cancels one of Pac fan's excuse if Floyd gets lucky and wins.

For that reason he thinks a bigger fight now.

[davie]

Amen to this!!

This fight is closer to Leonard vs hearns 2 than hagler vs hearns ,both fighters are still good but past their best

I think it's more close to SRL vs MHH than it is to any other comparison. It took SRL years to decide to face MHH just as it has taken Manny years to finally agree to sign a contract to face Mayweather.

Some people can't help themselves.
What fight in history most closely resembles the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight in terms of styles, being past their prime etc?
KBB - "it's manny's fault"

When the missus scream through from the bathroom "KBB, you left the fornicating seat up again"
do you reply "well Bob Arum wouldn't agree to random drug tests for his fighters, said he was scared of needles!"

let it bloody go man, the fight's been made

[KBB]

Some people can't help themselves.
What fight in history most closely resembles the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight in terms of styles, being past their prime etc?
KBB - "it's manny's fault"

When the missus scream through from the bathroom "KBB, you left the effing seat up again"
do you reply "well Bob Arum wouldn't agree to random drug tests for his fighters, said he was scared of needles!"

let it bloody go man, the fight's been made

Dude, I made a comparison to how long it took SRL to sign a contract to face Hagler, why is that so upsetting to you? We are obviously stating that we are all glad the fight is made and I just reflected on a time when I was young and SRL and MHH was the fight that everyone wanted.

Manny took as long as SRL did to sign a contract to face Floyd, everyone knows Mayweather signed the original deal back in 2010 but Pacquiao didn't; if these aren't something to be compared in this sport then I stand corrected.

[davie]

Some people can't help themselves.
What fight in history most closely resembles the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight in terms of styles, being past their prime etc?
KBB - "it's manny's fault"

When the missus scream through from the bathroom "KBB, you left the effing seat up again"
do you reply "well Bob Arum wouldn't agree to random drug tests for his fighters, said he was scared of needles!"

let it bloody go man, the fight's been made

Dude, I made a comparison to how long it took SRL to sign a contract to face Hagler, why is that so upsetting to you? We are obviously stating that we are all glad the fight is made and I just reflected on a time when I was young and SRL and MHH was the fight that everyone wanted.

Manny took as long as SRL did to sign a contract to face Floyd, everyone knows Mayweather signed the original deal back in 2010 but Pacquiao didn't; if these aren't something to be compared in this sport then I stand corrected.

So it's SRL & Manny's fault?

That's cool, I'm not upset.

[KBB]

So it's SRL & Manny's fault? That's cool, I'm not upset.

I'm not sure about all the details of the SRL vs MHH debacle but I'm very familiar with the FMM vs MP debacle and according to the one and only time that is documented in 2010 where they sat down to LEGALLY negotiate the terms of the meeting back then it was Manny Pacquiao who did not sign the contract because he didn't/refused to sign it on the basis that he was afraid of needles and having blood drawn weakens him.

Why is it that people disregard this? I know we have the fight signed now but part of the reason why people still continue to assume that it was Floyd who was ducking or ducked is because people are afraid of the truth and to point a finger at Pacquiao.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--fl ... fight.html

My original point wasn't to condemn Manny for ducking Floyd, it was to simply draw a logical comparison to SRL vs MHH, everyone knows that they should've fought when they were both in their primes and that the ball was in SRL's court to make the fight but unlike Floyd, Leonard never tried to make the fight with MHH when they were at the pinnacle but yet because he was so loved like Pacquiao not many people were willing to point the finger and blame him for the fight not happening.

The difference being people Hate Floyd so it is easy to blame the braggadocious, loud mouthed, criminal than it is the darling of the sport.

[LuciusSweet]

if Pac wins it proves he's better than Floyd and he's the greatest of this era and thats it. If Floyd wins, he affirms that fact.

[ReggieDiggs]

I think both guys are so old in the grand scheme of things they got an out historically if they lose. Whoever loses boxing historians can say that guy was past his prime thus making the result less meaningful. And there is plenty of evidence to suggest both have lost a step or two. Plus think about it, when has so much been on the line between two great fighters at such a late stage of their careers? This is a extremely unique situation.

Bottom line is both will get into the HOF & have been among the best of their era. Can't really do more than that & come May 3 "those guys" will either be saying Floyd cherry picked Manny & Manny ain't sh!t or be talking about Floyd like he got exposed after a 20 year career of Criss Angel-like in the ring illusions.

Who really gives a f#ck though. Boxing history discussions are filled with 90% complete morons about boxing history, 9.8% well meaning fans & 0.2% people who actually know whats up.

[JCS]

Dempsey at #10? Holy lord.

[davie]

So it's SRL & Manny's fault? That's cool, I'm not upset.

I'm not sure about all the details of the SRL vs MHH debacle but I'm very familiar with the FMM vs MP debacle and according to the one and only time that is documented in 2010 where they sat down to LEGALLY negotiate the terms of the meeting back then it was Manny Pacquiao who did not sign the contract because he didn't/refused to sign it on the basis that he was afraid of needles and having blood drawn weakens him.

Why is it that people disregard this? I know we have the fight signed now but part of the reason why people still continue to assume that it was Floyd who was ducking or ducked is because people are afraid of the truth and to point a finger at Pacquiao.


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/boxing--fl ... fight.html

My original point wasn't to condemn Manny for ducking Floyd, it was to simply draw a logical comparison to SRL vs MHH, everyone knows that they should've fought when they were both in their primes and that the ball was in SRL's court to make the fight but unlike Floyd, Leonard never tried to make the fight with MHH when they were at the pinnacle but yet because he was so loved like Pacquiao not many people were willing to point the finger and blame him for the fight not happening.

The difference being people Hate Floyd so it is easy to blame the braggadocious, loud mouthed, criminal than it is the darling of the sport.

My original point is that, whose fault it is, is entirely irrelevant to the discussion on this thread, yet you bring it up as you do about everything
You have further reinforced that belief by continuing to try and justify the point that manny is at fault, despite - A. That not being the point of debate here & B. Me not giving a flying fornicate whose fault it is.

That's why I disregard your point. Not because it's right or wrong, but because you're discussing it in the wrong thread like an obsessed weirdo.

Cue Boxing prospect coming in to tell us about 6st3lb Japanese guy!

[jezzamundo]

I don't think either have quite the resume required (no, I'm not talking about number of fights, but fights against great, prime opposition) to make it to the all time p4p top 10 and arguably not the top 20 either. That said, despite the fact that both guys are past their prime, I think the winner will pretty much unanimously be declared the greatest boxer of their generation - that is, if it's a decisive win.

Dempsey at #10? Holy lord.

Really, that's what got your attention, not RJJ at #1?!

For the record, I don't think Dempsey should be in the p4p top 10 either.

[JCS]

I don't think either have quite the resume required (no, I'm not talking about number of fights, but fights against great, prime opposition) to make it to the all time p4p top 10 and arguably not the top 20 either. That said, despite the fact that both guys are past their prime, I think the winner will pretty much unanimously be declared the greatest boxer of their generation - that is, if it's a decisive win.

Dempsey at #10? Holy lord.

Really, that's what got your attention, not RJJ at #1?!

For the record, I don't think Dempsey should be in the p4p top 10 either.

I took the 2nd list as more personal "best athlete list" opinion than the 1st, so I ignored it.

[KBB]

My original point is that, whose fault it is, is entirely irrelevant to the discussion on this thread, yet you bring it up as you do about everything
You have further reinforced that belief by continuing to try and justify the point that manny is at fault, despite - A. That not being the point of debate here & B. Me not giving a flying eff whose fault it is.

That's why I disregard your point. Not because it's right or wrong, but because you're discussing it in the wrong thread like an obsessed weirdo.

Cue Boxing prospect coming in to tell us about 6st3lb Japanese guy!

No, you didn't disregard my point, you replied

I didn't "try" and justify it was his fault, I proved it!!

You do give an "eff" whose fault it is which is why you started crying about what I stated in the first place, quit trying to fool yourself into thinking it didn't get under your skin......................you're as transparent as a ghost on this issue.

You may now continue to cry and go back to acting like you do not care.

Have a nice day

[Chepppaaa]

KBB acting like a di....

nothing has change since my long layoff