Is it the end of the WBA, IBF, WBC and WBO?

[caldo2025]

It appears that the PBC was a success even though the fights were pretty poor in my opinion. Robert Guerrero showed heart after getting knocked down but I didn't have him winning a round. To me, both fights were shutouts so I refuse to call those good fights. I'll give Haymon the benefit of the doubt though because I know that Peterson vs. Garcia is going to be fantastic so i'll chalk it up to bad nights for the losers (especially Molina. He will never appear on my tv again).

With that said, is Al Haymon not planning to recognize the championship belts? Is his goal to have a PBC Championship belt similar to the UFC? I'm wondering how everyone feels about that. How do the champions in his stable feel about that? Is he going to let Danny Garcia and Lamont Peterson wear their belts into the ring? Is that why they are not fighting for the title that night? On on hand, I think that it would be great for boxing to recognize one champion and do away with the silly amount of titles. On the other hand, the purest in me doesn't want the great history of the sport to be wiped out by one guy with a large wallet. I'm not sure. How do you all feel about getting rid of all the belts and having one PBC champion if this thing takes off?

[Datsue]

*If* (enormous, world-distortingly massive IF, an if that's "big" in the way one thinks of God or love as big) the belt is not restricted to his stable of fighters & by some bizarre quirk of fate or mass hallucinatory event the belt becomes recognised & valued globally, then yeah no problem ditch the ABC's.

If, as I believe, it's just a crummy marketing tool which'll be awarded as Haymon sees fit & the ABC belts are just tossed around as scraps for the rest of his stable or fought over by fighters who didn't make it or whatever, so we basically end up with a two-tier system whereby the top Yanks only fight for Haymon & the PBC & fighters from the rest of the planet still go on with the ABC's, then it's a fornicate-stupid idea.

Knowing boxing, it'll be the fornicate-stupid idea.

PS: Remember when Hamed was getting shite from the ABC orgs? With HBO money, he said "Fark you" to them & just fought the best (cleaning out the division anyway). Barrera followed suit. When Manny beat him, that started bringing the belts back to prominence, as Pacquiao's constant division-hopping from then on involved recognised title fights.

Two things can be drawn from this:

A) you don't need a stupid belt--any stupid belt--when everyone knows you're the boss.

B) Fighters from outside the US, especially ones that are poor, in general still care about belts.

C) Going back to Manny, at feather he wanted belts so badly he agreed to fight JMM, who no-one really wanted to fight & who spent his free time collecting as many of the vacant alpha titles as he could get his hands on. This also clues one in as to the future of those belts, at least in the short-term, as avoided fighters & non-(Haymon)represented fighters will still pursue them for their own goals.

[KBB]

We can only hope that it is the end of the Alphabet Organizations, that would be the ultimate blessing for this sport and then we'd only have one more mountain to climb and that is to get rid of Boxing Promoters and go to an organization that is fair and structures tournaments that ensures we have the best facing/fighting the best.

To answer a few of your questions:
1. I'm ok with a PBC Championship belt as long as we can get rid of all the other orgs.
2. I see no big deal with their being one champ as long as that champ is made to face all mandatories and doesn't get to pick and chose who he fights, rather an unbiased/outside organization chooses his comp instead.

[klitoris]

We can only hope that it is the end of the Alphabet Organizations, that would be the ultimate blessing for this sport and then we'd only have one more mountain to climb and that is to get rid of Boxing Promoters and go to an organization that is fair and structures tournaments that ensures we have the best facing/fighting the best.

To answer a few of your questions:
1. I'm ok with a PBC Championship belt as long as we can get rid of all the other orgs.
2. I see no big deal with their being one champ as long as that champ is made to face all mandatories and doesn't get to pick and chose who he fights, rather an unbiased/outside organization chooses his comp instead.

PBC is not a boxing organization! It's a show on NBC created by AL HAYMON called "Premier Boxing Champions".

NO RANKINGS
NO MANDATORY DEFENSES
EVERYTHING OWNED BY HAYMON

Haymon is the only one winning here. He's milking money because he has only his own fighters fight each other. The best will never fight the best, because the best are not in his stable!
He isn't trying to save boxing. He's trying to become the dictator of boxing and make all the money. He doesn't give a shit about boxing fans. Which is why he is trying to create a mass of casual dumb fans through a network like NBC.
But this will never succeed because other promoters will not just give away their fighters. Therefore we will only have a bigger divide between Haymon boxers and the rest of the boxing world.
Haymon is ruining boxing because Golden Boy just ended a feud with HBO and Top Rank, and we would of been able to see all these fighters fight the best anyways. But Haymon took all of them out at the right moment for himself to protect them.

[ScottDetonator]

I think the PBC belt will just be a trinket recognised by Haymon fighters and for Haymon fighters. He'll be able to 'catch-weight' the hell out of it to keep the gravy trains rolling for his popular fighters(look at the Garcia-Peterson farce coming up). It's not exactly going to change a title fights across the world, say in Japan, the introduction of a in-house and corrupt belt over in the US. That is all it is in my eyes, another bad sign for boxing.

I think it will end up being just a side belt that compliments a holder of one of the other so called World titles while fighting on NBC. To the rest of the world it'll be a belt even less recognized than the IBO.

[ReggieDiggs]

is Al Haymon not planning to recognize the championship belts?

It would certainly appear that way. A lot of things are "appearing" right now after this first show that you could speculate on wildly. It seems to me like the first show was about keeping things as simple & PG as possible & I could see how "title" talk is one of those things that you'd wanna leave out for the casual viewer who isn't as well acquainted with the 4 title corruption in boxing.

Is his goal to have a PBC Championship belt similar to the UFC?

I think its way too early to suggest this, but its outcome that seems to be possible with how things are working out.

I'm wondering how everyone feels about that.

I love the idea of their being a UFC "Major" boxing league. I've thought it was bs pre-UFC that you got guys fighting people with losing records on HUGE PPV shows. I want something in boxing that signifies an elite level of talent is going to be seen like the UFC does.

How do the champions in his stable feel about that?

This is the big question. I don't know. I'd love to have heard Keith's & Robert's thoughts on their current & past title histories basically being erased as far as PBC was concerned Saturday. I think this is going to be an interesting thing to watch if there does happen to be a PBC belt.

Is he going to let Danny Garcia and Lamont Peterson wear their belts into the ring?

Don't know. My assumption is their belts will be off camera at best & not around at worst.

Is that why they are not fighting for the title that night?

I think Danny is doing a weak ass Saul-like move to a higher division. I think that has more to do with the decision than anything.

How do you all feel about getting rid of all the belts and having one PBC champion if this thing takes off?

I'd love one belt, one champion. I don't care who's behind it as long as its not the current abc orgs as they have f#cked over boxing history & should be out of business. The abc orgs have hurt boxing championship history over the last several decades with segregating the best fighters from each other with various titles, rankings & historically being against unification (they seem to be trying to turn things around a little bit cuz they feel threatened by AIBA pro boxing oddly enough while I think PBC is potentially a much bigger threat, I'd love to hear the abc org's take on titles being underplayed for Keith vs Robert btw). F#ck the abc orgs.

[fanman]

Even if there were 1 belt who would decide when they get stripped or what rankings there are. There will always be controversies. Maybe the best bet is common sense fan rankings.

[ReggieDiggs]

Even if there were 1 belt who would decide when they get stripped or what rankings there are. There will always be controversies. Maybe the best bet is common sense fan rankings.

Well yea. Nothing is gonna be perfect. No one is suggesting anything like that or expecting that I'd hope as they need a reality intervention if they think anything is gonna be perfect the millions of people involved in or fans of boxing. I think boxing can do a hell of a lot better then 4 champions & potentially 40 "top ten" guys though.

Common sense fan rankings lmmfao. Boxing fans are perhaps some of the dumbest of all sports fans per capita. I mean look around on Boxrec at some of the 13 year old sounding comments people make & simplistic stances & theories. I'd rather have a boxing writers ranking system.

[KBB]

We can only hope that it is the end of the Alphabet Organizations, that would be the ultimate blessing for this sport and then we'd only have one more mountain to climb and that is to get rid of Boxing Promoters and go to an organization that is fair and structures tournaments that ensures we have the best facing/fighting the best.

To answer a few of your questions:
1. I'm ok with a PBC Championship belt as long as we can get rid of all the other orgs.
2. I see no big deal with their being one champ as long as that champ is made to face all mandatories and doesn't get to pick and chose who he fights, rather an unbiased/outside organization chooses his comp instead.

PBC is not a boxing organization! It's a show on NBC created by AL HAYMON called "Premier Boxing Champions".

NO RANKINGS
NO MANDATORY DEFENSES
EVERYTHING OWNED BY HAYMON

Haymon is the only one winning here. He's milking money because he has only his own fighters fight each other. The best will never fight the best, because the best are not in his stable!
He isn't trying to save boxing. He's trying to become the dictator of boxing and make all the money. He doesn't give a poo about boxing fans. Which is why he is trying to create a mass of casual dumb fans through a network like NBC.
But this will never succeed because other promoters will not just give away their fighters. Therefore we will only have a bigger divide between Haymon boxers and the rest of the boxing world.
Haymon is ruining boxing because Golden Boy just ended a feud with HBO and Top Rank, and we would of been able to see all these fighters fight the best anyways. But Haymon took all of them out at the right moment for himself to protect them.

Who said it was a boxing organization? You are not shedding any light to me regarding what PBC is, it's clear from my post that I have no problem with their being a PBC Belt/Organization if all the other Alpha Orgs disappeared.

FYI, Haymon isn't the only one winning here, the boxing public are winning and if you don't think you are then don't even bother to watch it.

The first time we get boxing back on a free network and people still look to find fault, if you don't like it just turn the channel but true boxing fans will watch it.

[benion]

Are the ABC organizations the ones that determine weight classes? If they are and Haymon isn't planning on recognizing the belts what's stopping him from eliminating the traditional weight classes all together? For instance, DSG can fight Keith Thurman at a 140-150 weight limit. Floyd has proved you don't have to come in at the upper end of the weight limit to be effective and win. Another question, is there any science behind the weight classes or were they just made up? I understand heavyweights can't fight welterweights but why can't Jr. Middleweights fight middleweights. Does 6lbs really make that big of a difference?

[Impractical Poster]

We can only hope that it is the end of the Alphabet Organizations, that would be the ultimate blessing for this sport and then we'd only have one more mountain to climb and that is to get rid of Boxing Promoters and go to an organization that is fair and structures tournaments that ensures we have the best facing/fighting the best.

To answer a few of your questions:
1. I'm ok with a PBC Championship belt as long as we can get rid of all the other orgs.
2. I see no big deal with their being one champ as long as that champ is made to face all mandatories and doesn't get to pick and chose who he fights, rather an unbiased/outside organization chooses his comp instead.

PBC is not a boxing organization! It's a show on NBC created by AL HAYMON called "Premier Boxing Champions".

NO RANKINGS
NO MANDATORY DEFENSES
EVERYTHING OWNED BY HAYMON

Haymon is the only one winning here. He's milking money because he has only his own fighters fight each other. The best will never fight the best, because the best are not in his stable!
He isn't trying to save boxing. He's trying to become the dictator of boxing and make all the money. He doesn't give a poo about boxing fans. Which is why he is trying to create a mass of casual dumb fans through a network like NBC.
But this will never succeed because other promoters will not just give away their fighters. Therefore we will only have a bigger divide between Haymon boxers and the rest of the boxing world.
Haymon is ruining boxing because Golden Boy just ended a feud with HBO and Top Rank, and we would of been able to see all these fighters fight the best anyways. But Haymon took all of them out at the right moment for himself to protect them.

They also have cards to be shown on Spike as well.

The UFC started out exclusively on PPV, then Spike. Now they are on FOX. I would not be surprised if Haymon has been meeting with Lorenzo Fertitta. Lorenzo used to be a member of the Nevada Athletic Commission. He was a huge boxing fan, and actually took part in trying to fix the sport. When he realized that the sport could not be fixed, he bought the UFC recommended by your favorite and mine, Dana White.

If Haymon can make an impact with his stable of fighter, pit the top against the top on a regular basis and sell it well, then that is great for the sport. More and more fighters will want to join up. Of course there will be some contractual issues, but that happens in the UFC still.

PBC is in it's infancy. You can't expect the sport that is as much in the hole as boxing is to be fixed overnight. It is seemingly going to get worse before it gets better. Fighters will have to fulfill their own contractual obligations before jumping ship. But when you look at the Haymon stable, if I am correct, they had around 50 fighters mid 2014. Now they have 150. PBC will grow rapidly. Try and look at the big picture. Of course Haymon is looking for money.... who isn't? But this will be a much needed change for the sport.

[sucracristo]

the future of boxing is a worldwide tour like in tennis and golf with rankings based on points
earned by how far you advance in the local level tournies, then regional, then national, then
world. 2 or 3 tournies per year for the top 20 guys with like 10-20mil for the champ of
each weight class (118, 125, 135, 147, 160, 175, 200, no limit) in the two big tournies.
because the tournies will be scheduled in advance, the biggest corporate sponsors will be budget
before the year begins, there will be the same sponsor money as golf and tennis and nascar and
all the major sports, and people will also be able to rally around the events like the big events
in the other sports like wimbledon, kentucky derby, daytona, augusta, etc. the problem is the
spacing between rounds of the tournies so people have time to recuperate and prepare for the next
round. the other tours don't have a problem with people not wanting to play on the tours, because
once you have a tour, there really aren't many other options, especially if you make everybody
choose (don't compete in a tour event, banned for 5 years from tour). this gives everybody a fair
chance to climb the ladder based purely on performance and your prize money is determined by
how far you advance in the different levels of tournies. of course this type of system would mean
top boxers would become like other major athletes and earn more out of the ring from sponsors
than in the ring. the sport would also be less star-dependent. the same way the events in other
sports aren't destroyed by a star dropping out, boxing would be the same way. the best would
fight the best every year. no more ducking. no more sleazy promotional contracts. no more abc titles.
probably even better officiating and safety measures for the fighters. and professionalism.
PBC is just a tv showcase for haymon fighters. i'll watch it but it isn't the savior of boxing.

[ReggieDiggs]

what's stopping him from eliminating the traditional weight classes all together? ?

Dude. Dude. Dude. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

Tbqmfh I'd LOVE this. Boxing has way too many weight divisions. I don't think there needs to be so many lower divisions, at the very least in the US & other "fat" or "non-lil people" countries. I'm strongly biased towards the UFC as a fan & cuz I think Boxing would be like the UFC if MMA had become popular first. Many things that boxing made a mistake with (imo obviously), MMA has improved upon (again imo obviously). Weight divisions being one of them. I'd love to see MMA weight divisions in boxing, 265, 205, 185, 170, 155, 145, 135, 125. Lets cut the bs & the silly sounding 147 & 122 divisions. If a divisions doesn't end with a 0 or a 5 or its 3-5lbs off of another division its gone. I don't give any f#cks about the guy who weighs 109lbs or the guy who's bottom is 126lbs & he couldn't lose an extra lb if his life depended on it. Lets shake some sh!t up.

This has zero percent chance of happening, but personally I''d LOVE it.

[Impractical Poster]

what's stopping him from eliminating the traditional weight classes all together? ?

Dude. Dude. Dude. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

Tbqmfh I'd LOVE this. Boxing has way too many weight divisions. I don't think there needs to be so many lower divisions, at the very least in the US & other "fat" or "non-lil people" countries. I'm strongly biased towards the UFC as a fan & cuz I think Boxing would be like the UFC if MMA had become popular first. Many things that boxing made a mistake with (imo obviously), MMA has improved upon (again imo obviously). Weight divisions being one of them. I'd love to see MMA weight divisions in boxing, 265, 205, 185, 170, 155, 145, 135, 125. Lets cut the bs & the silly sounding 147 & 122 divisions. If a divisions doesn't end with a 0 or a 5 or its 3-5lbs off of another division its gone. I don't give any f#cks about the guy who weighs 109lbs or the guy who's bottom is 126lbs & he couldn't lose an extra lb if his life depended on it. Lets shake some sh!t up.

This has zero percent chance of happening, but personally I''d LOVE it.

I'm all aboard on this as well.

[ReggieDiggs]

the future of boxing is a worldwide tour like in tennis and golf with rankings based on points
earned by how far you advance in the local level tournies, then regional, then national, then
world. 2 or 3 tournies per year for the top 20 guys with like 10-20mil for the champ of
each weight class (118, 125, 135, 147, 160, 175, 200, no limit) in the two big tournies.

Couldn't disagree more. Boxing has too many injuries for it to ever be successful with any sort of tournament format being a big part of its structure.

Either you gotta do some sorta interesting, sorta lame 3 round, one night thing like Prizefighter, but on steroids as it'd have the biggest names involved or you have fights being postponed or canceled far too often for fans to follow it with much excitement or fanfare. Or you'd have to severely change the game so injuries weren't as likely in training or in the fight & idk if thats possible without making this a science/science fiction/futurism discussion.

I'm a fan of tournaments, but more as a one off thing then something that should be a structural part of the boxing landscape.

[sucracristo]

Boxing has too many injuries

i mentioned in my post scheduling recuperation time between rounds of the tournies and
when was the last time a mayweather or pacquiao or major fight was canceled because of
an injury that you can think of off the top of your head? i talked about all that stuff.
there has never been a boxing tour run like the other sport tours so bringing up other
tournaments is irrelevant. how dare you disagree with me, sir. the insolence...

[crusader]

Believe it or not, loads of fighters who aren't associated with Haymon and rarely compete in the US fund those organizations via sanctioning fees. Haymon will need a much bigger stable and global reach to be a serious threat to the existence of the big four.

[Boxing Prospect]

The closest thing we have to an annual tournament is the Japanese Rookie of the Year which begins in March and ends in December. Last year I think 1 of the finals, Lightweight IIRC, was canned after Andy Hiraoka contracted flu but the others all went ahead.

[ReggieDiggs]

Boxing has too many injuries

i mentioned in my post scheduling recuperation time between rounds of the tournies and
when was the last time a mayweather or pacquiao or major fight was canceled because of
an injury that you can think of off the top of your head? i talked about all that stuff.
there has never been a boxing tour run like the other sport tours so bringing up other
tournaments is irrelevant. how dare you disagree with me, sir. the insolence...

Lol.

Floyd had a rib injury that canceled the original Juan Manuel fight date & got it postponed to a later date.

What difference does it make if its ran like other sports? Or are you saying Floyd will be playing tennis or golfing lol?

How exactly are you getting rid of injuries in the fights &/or training? Thats some science sh!t. Maybe in 2029 there'll be some Wolverine Cream™ you can rub on a cut or torn tendon that'll make it heal in front of you, but right now an injury would be pushing back the finals of a boxing March Madness or NBA Finals or Players Championship.

In team sports this makes all the sense in the world. In sports where injuries happen less often it makes all the sense in the world. In a sport where even in training guys are getting hit in the head its never gonna work on a huge level unless you change the sport or someone invents Wolverine Cream™.

I'd just like to see some quality control with fighters still having some freedom on opponents selection. I'd like to see things broken down into various skill level tiers. If you win or lose a certain number of fights you go up or down a tier. Then you'd have a top tier with 10, 20 guys in it that could only fight each other & if you are lose a certain number of fights you drop down. This would give fans more even fights at all levels of the game & it'd insure the best are always fighting the best.

[Impractical Poster]

I'd just like to see some quality control with fighters still having some freedom on opponents selection. I'd like to see things broken down into various skill level tiers. If you win or lose a certain number of fights you go up or down a tier. Then you'd have a top tier with 10, 20 guys in it that could only fight each other & if you are lose a certain number of fights you drop down. This would give fans more even fights at all levels of the game & it'd insure the best are always fighting the best.

Or just hire Joe Silva.

[Andrew]

*If* (enormous, world-distortingly massive IF, an if that's "big" in the way one thinks of God or love as big) the belt is not restricted to his stable of fighters & by some bizarre quirk of fate or mass hallucinatory event the belt becomes recognised & valued globally, then yeah no problem ditch the ABC's.

If, as I believe, it's just a crummy marketing tool which'll be awarded as Haymon sees fit & the ABC belts are just tossed around as scraps for the rest of his stable or fought over by fighters who didn't make it or whatever, so we basically end up with a two-tier system whereby the top Yanks only fight for Haymon & the PBC & fighters from the rest of the planet still go on with the ABC's, then it's a fornicate-stupid idea.

Knowing boxing, it'll be the fornicate-stupid idea.

PS: Remember when Hamed was getting shite from the ABC orgs? With HBO money, he said "Fark you" to them & just fought the best (cleaning out the division anyway). Barrera followed suit. When Manny beat him, that started bringing the belts back to prominence, as Pacquiao's constant division-hopping from then on involved recognised title fights.

Two things can be drawn from this:

A) you don't need a stupid belt--any stupid belt--when everyone knows you're the boss.

B) Fighters from outside the US, especially ones that are poor, in general still care about belts.

C) Going back to Manny, at feather he wanted belts so badly he agreed to fight JMM, who no-one really wanted to fight & who spent his free time collecting as many of the vacant alpha titles as he could get his hands on. This also clues one in as to the future of those belts, at least in the short-term, as avoided fighters & non-(Haymon)represented fighters will still pursue them for their own goals.

[Andrew]

We can only hope that it is the end of the Alphabet Organizations, that would be the ultimate blessing for this sport and then we'd only have one more mountain to climb and that is to get rid of Boxing Promoters and go to an organization that is fair and structures tournaments that ensures we have the best facing/fighting the best.

To answer a few of your questions:
1. I'm ok with a PBC Championship belt as long as we can get rid of all the other orgs.
2. I see no big deal with their being one champ as long as that champ is made to face all mandatories and doesn't get to pick and chose who he fights, rather an unbiased/outside organization chooses his comp instead.

PBC is not a boxing organization! It's a show on NBC created by AL HAYMON called "Premier Boxing Champions".

NO RANKINGS
NO MANDATORY DEFENSES
EVERYTHING OWNED BY HAYMON

Haymon is the only one winning here. He's milking money because he has only his own fighters fight each other. The best will never fight the best, because the best are not in his stable!
He isn't trying to save boxing. He's trying to become the dictator of boxing and make all the money. He doesn't give a poo about boxing fans. Which is why he is trying to create a mass of casual dumb fans through a network like NBC.
But this will never succeed because other promoters will not just give away their fighters. Therefore we will only have a bigger divide between Haymon boxers and the rest of the boxing world.
Haymon is ruining boxing because Golden Boy just ended a feud with HBO and Top Rank, and we would of been able to see all these fighters fight the best anyways. But Haymon took all of them out at the right moment for himself to protect them.

[Andrew]

Believe it or not, loads of fighters who aren't associated with Haymon and rarely compete in the US fund those organizations via sanctioning fees. Haymon will need a much bigger stable and global reach to be a serious threat to the existence of the big four.

[benion]

I'd just like to see some quality control with fighters still having some freedom on opponents selection. I'd like to see things broken down into various skill level tiers. If you win or lose a certain number of fights you go up or down a tier. Then you'd have a top tier with 10, 20 guys in it that could only fight each other & if you are lose a certain number of fights you drop down. This would give fans more even fights at all levels of the game & it'd insure the best are always fighting the best.

I love that idea. If you drop to tier 2 you have to have to win 80% of your fights at tier 2, against fellow tier 2 fighters, with a minimum of 5 fights. Tier 1 fighters must win 80% of their fights based on their last 10 fights. Seven of those ten fights must be against fellow tier 1 fighters with at least 5 fights at that tier. You can't make a living fighting guys who only have 1 or 2 fights into that tier. It would clear up confusion among casual boxing fans because records can be deceiving. I'm just throwing stuff out there but I really like this idea. Would love to get other people opinions on this

[ReggieDiggs]

I'd just like to see some quality control with fighters still having some freedom on opponents selection. I'd like to see things broken down into various skill level tiers. If you win or lose a certain number of fights you go up or down a tier. Then you'd have a top tier with 10, 20 guys in it that could only fight each other & if you are lose a certain number of fights you drop down. This would give fans more even fights at all levels of the game & it'd insure the best are always fighting the best.

Or just hire Joe Silva.

I think Silva already incorporates something like this into his matchups on a obviously smaller scale cuz you'll more often than not see two guys who won their last fight fighting or two guys who lost their last fight fighting. If I see a boxing card with more than 4 fights that has guys fighting on the same recent trajectory its a surprising development.