Should there be a Super Heavyweight Division?

Shpati · Post by **Shpati** » 12 Mar 2015, 17:15

It came up in another thread, so I thought I would start a thread here.

Light Heavyweight: 175
Cruiserweight: 200
Heavyweight: 200+

That's a pretty big gap between Light Heavyweight and Cruiserweight. And even though Heavyweight is 200+, you will hardly find anybody who is between 200-220 anymore.

I always thought Cruiserweight made more sense when it was 190 because at 200, there's a big gap between LWH. It was obviously bumped because 190-200 pound boxers didn't think it was fair to fight guys who where 230+.

I would like it to go back to LHW being 175, CW being 190, and HW being 190+, but I don't ever see that happening again with the goliaths flooding the HW division.

If they divisions looked more like this, I think it will provide more organized divisions and better bouts:

LHW: 175
CW: 190
HW: 190-220
SHW: 220+

Only thing preventing something like this happening (IMO), is because people are really attached to history (including myself). And on the other hand, the HW division was never a division that involved guys making weight. If it had a set maximum, we would have guys like Povetikin draining themselves. They would have to retire the old HW division or something.

With modern technology, nutrition, and equipment, it may be time for a change.

expe · Post by **expe** » 12 Mar 2015, 17:19

No, I like the idea of a new division at 15st and moving Cruiserweight back down to 13 1/2st, but the highest division is the heavyweight division, on no condition should that be changed.

Andy · Post by **Andy** » 12 Mar 2015, 17:28

Should be a super cruiser if anything

ReggieDiggs · Post by **ReggieDiggs** » 12 Mar 2015, 17:32

No.

I will say one of the dumb things about weight divisions in boxing is they act like they quit mattering once you get to heavyweight where you can weight 201lbs or 300lbs. I'd personally like to see a limit at HW like MMA does where its 265lbs. And idk if there would be a need for guys over 265lbs to have their own division quite yet, but I'm of the opinion many of the smaller weights should be combined to make divisions with more fighters in them too. Overall my opinion for weight divisions is less not more.

punchoutsb · Post by **punchoutsb** » 12 Mar 2015, 18:36

No. We need less divisions, not more.

tiny_acres · Post by **tiny_acres** » 12 Mar 2015, 19:51

punchoutsb wrote:No. We need less divisions, not more.

Very simply put but nailed it.

hurricanemitch14 · Post by **hurricanemitch14** » 12 Mar 2015, 20:03

Nope if anything less division and Heavyweights should be monitored. Weed out the fat lazy bastards. Maybe these smaller heavies and eat right, train hard like Wlad we wouldnt have a problem. Super heavy mean more fat fucks like ruiz, arreola,welliver and 90s dude james gaines to name a few. These r professionals, its time they act like it.

Tony1244 · Post by **Tony1244** » 12 Mar 2015, 20:33

tiny_acres wrote:
punchoutsb wrote:No. We need less divisions, not more.
Very simply put but nailed it.

Totally agree. Perhaps in the future the cruiserweight div could increase 10 LBS or so, but no new divisions. I've always said the klitschkos dominated because they are good, not because they are big. Most big guys have not done well. There've only been 3 great HWs that weighed 240+, one of them is Lennox Lewis, the other 2 have the same Mother.

hurricanemitch14 · Post by **hurricanemitch14** » 12 Mar 2015, 20:44

Tony1244 wrote:
tiny_acres wrote:
punchoutsb wrote:No. We need less divisions, not more.
Very simply put but nailed it.

Totally agree. Perhaps in the future the cruiserweight div could increase 10 LBS or so, but no new divisions. I've always said the klitschkos dominated because they are good, not because they are big. Most big guys have not done well. There've only been 3 great HWs that weighed 240+, one of them is Lennox Lewis, the other 2 have the same Mother.

Klitschkos dominated because they r good and they have size plus they take their career serious and they are in amazing shape yr round. Bryant Jennings isn't the most blessed heavy but he works his ass off, wants it more. There's many heavies with more talent than Jennings imo but Jennings wants it more. Mike Perez should never have lost to Jennings but Jennings like Klitschkos are pros in and out of the ring.

ClivePatrickLyons · Post by **ClivePatrickLyons** » 12 Mar 2015, 21:07

Ali would have flogged both Klitsko's size meant nothing if u want to mess with the big boys then so be it you'll get paid for it, Bigger money in this division then any other
you don't have to be heavyweight champ to make big money just be a genuine world class fighter that's the benefit about the heavies.
instead of limit of about 92kg for a cruiser raise it to maybe 98kg over that then its open season.

hurricanemitch14 · Post by **hurricanemitch14** » 12 Mar 2015, 21:13

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Ali would have flogged both Klitsko's size meant nothing if u want to mess with the big boys then so be it you'll get paid for it, Bigger money in this division then any other
you don't have to be heavyweight champ to make big money just be a genuine world class fighter that's the benefit about the heavies.
instead of limit of about 92kg for a cruiser raise it to maybe 98kg over that then its open season.

I'm not an Ail fan at all but could u imagine Ali with the boxing,strength/conditioning,training techology and the legal and illegal supplements that fighters have access too nowadays. people forget that when comparing who would beat who when fighters fought in different eras. Imagine Sugar Ray Robinson on andro when that shit was running wild????? In this era u need to have size a 215 lb dude is not beating Wlad unless he lands a bomb.

davie · Post by **davie** » 12 Mar 2015, 21:37

Seeing as it was me that started the discussion on the other thread, I may as well pitch my tuppence worth in

I think it has to happen.
As stated, the 25lb range in cruiserweight is a big jump. putting it back to 190lbs (where it traditionally was) would make sense.
Of course the really big guys in the Heavyweight division mean that having a top weight class starting at 190lbs would be even more ridiculous, so a wieght class in between is needed.

People don't want to see change, but the game has changed, the fighters have changed, people change. Move with the fornicating times.
People are getting bigger, 30 years from now when people are taller still and heavyweights are even taller and heavier than today do we still just say, I don't like change!

If people want to keep the top division named heavyweights, the super-cruiser is always an option. but there is a requirement for a new weight class at the heavy end of the scale.

as for there being too many weight classes, that problem lies at the lower end of the weight scale, where there are weight divisions 3lbs apart not at the top end where the cruiser weight range is 25lbs and the heavyweight division starts ay 14st 4lbs and you regularly get guys competing at 18 & 19st
Hekkie budler could jump a weight range simply by not taking a shit that day, while Marco Huck would need to eat Hekkie Budler to be competative against Klitschko.

punchoutsb · Post by **punchoutsb** » 12 Mar 2015, 21:47

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Ali would have flogged both Klitsko's size meant nothing

Try not to be silly now.

klitoris · Post by **klitoris** » 12 Mar 2015, 23:52

There needs to be a 187 pound division.

It should be:
175 - Light Heavyweight
187 - Junior Cruiserweight
200 - Cruiserweight
200+ - Heavyweight

Honestly the whole weight system needs to be changed specifically in the lower divisions. Minimumweight and Super Flyweight difference is 10 pounds. And that's 4 effing divisions between them. There are like 17 divisions. It needs to go down to at most like 14 imo.

Personally I would just do 11 divisions starting at 110 and going up by 10 pounds. So 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200, 200+. If the midgets protest then give them their 105 division and have 12.

ClivePatrickLyons · Post by **ClivePatrickLyons** » 13 Mar 2015, 00:34

punchoutsb wrote:
ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Ali would have flogged both Klitsko's size meant nothing
Try not to be silly now.

FAIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR DICKUM I'V FU..... HEARD IT ALL NOW.

davie · Post by **davie** » 13 Mar 2015, 00:38

klitoris wrote:There needs to be a 187 pound division.

It should be:
175 - Light Heavyweight
187 - Junior Cruiserweight
200 - Cruiserweight
200+ - Heavyweight

That sorts the cruiserweight division but still doesn't do anything about the heavyweight division ranging from 14st4lbs - 20st+ weights and guys at 6'9" and more

klitoris wrote:
Honestly the whole weight system needs to be changed specifically in the lower divisions. Minimumweight and Super Flyweight difference is 10 pounds. And that's 4 effing divisions between them. There are like 17 divisions. It needs to go down to at most like 14 imo.

Personally I would just do 11 divisions starting at 110 and going up by 10 pounds. So 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200, 200+. If the midgets protest then give them their 105 division and have 12.

I do think there is some merit in having the divisions closer in the lower weights, maybe just not 3lbs between weight classes.

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 13 Mar 2015, 01:27

They should rename the HW division the "super heavyweight" division

And rename the cruiserweight division the "heavyweight" division

As it is in the amateurs

expe · Post by **expe** » 13 Mar 2015, 05:15

davie wrote:Seeing as it was me that started the discussion on the other thread, I may as well pitch my tuppence worth in

I think it has to happen.
As stated, the 25lb range in cruiserweight is a big jump. putting it back to 190lbs (where it traditionally was) would make sense.
Of course the really big guys in the Heavyweight division mean that having a top weight class starting at 190lbs would be even more ridiculous, so a wieght class in between is needed.

People don't want to see change, but the game has changed, the fighters have changed, people change. Move with the effing times.
People are getting bigger, 30 years from now when people are taller still and heavyweights are even taller and heavier than today do we still just say, I don't like change!

If people want to keep the top division named heavyweights, the super-cruiser is always an option. but there is a requirement for a new weight class at the heavy end of the scale.

as for there being too many weight classes, that problem lies at the lower end of the weight scale, where there are weight divisions 3lbs apart not at the top end where the cruiser weight range is 25lbs and the heavyweight division starts ay 14st 4lbs and you regularly get guys competing at 18 & 19st
Hekkie budler could jump a weight range simply by not taking a poo that day, while Marco Huck would need to eat Hekkie Budler to be competative against Klitschko.

Add one in up at the top, trim a couple down in the lower weights to take it down to 16 weights. 7st 10, 8st, 8st 5, 8st 10, 9st, 9st 4, 9st 9, 10st, 10st 7, 11st, 11st 7, 12st, 12st 7, 13st 7, 15st, Heavyweight.

black panther · Post by **black panther** » 13 Mar 2015, 06:31

There's already too many weight divisions IMO.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 13 Mar 2015, 06:40

I dunno looking at the current top 10 boxrec HWs there are quite a few "smaller" guys.

Povetkin is a chubby 230, and probably should be fighting at 210-215
Wilder is about 220
Glazkov is 220
Tarver(!?) is a chubby 220 and could be fighting at 200
Jennings is 220-230, and is usually at his best in the low 220s
Cunningham is 205

So 6 of the top 10 ranked boxrec HWs could hardly be called super sized. I hardly think we need a super HW division, especially considering the only current "giant" HW who seems particularly skilled is Klitschko.

I'll agree with a few others here and say that we need less divisions.

kaiserbill · Post by **kaiserbill** » 13 Mar 2015, 09:39

I'm baffled by the use of the antiquated term stone in the 21st century from a country that is (admittedly in a ham-fisted, half-arsed fashion) metricated.

5016 · Post by **5016** » 13 Mar 2015, 14:51

kaiserbill: Most of the current weight classes are where they are because of stones (units of 14lbs). for example

flyweight = 112 = 8 stone
Featherweight = 126 = 9 stone
welterweight = 147 = 10 1/2 stone
middleweight = 160 = (almost) 11 1/2 stone
light heavy = 175 = 12 1/2 stone

so perhaps it would make sense for any new weight class to follow the same pattern

ReggieDiggs · Post by **ReggieDiggs** » 13 Mar 2015, 15:21

5016 wrote:kaiserbill: Most of the current weight classes are where they are because of stones (units of 14lbs). for example

flyweight = 112 = 8 stone
Featherweight = 126 = 9 stone
welterweight = 147 = 10 1/2 stone
middleweight = 160 = (almost) 11 1/2 stone
light heavy = 175 = 12 1/2 stone

so perhaps it would make sense for any new weight class to follow the same pattern

Omg this explains why they are so awful. Had never heard this.

At least lets go to some 5 or 0 ending kg numbers instead of stones or pounds.

punchoutsb · Post by **punchoutsb** » 13 Mar 2015, 15:29

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:
punchoutsb wrote:
ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Ali would have flogged both Klitsko's size meant nothing
Try not to be silly now.
FAIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR DICKUM I'V FU..... HEARD IT ALL NOW.

No idea what this even means, but it falls in pretty nicely with your other posts I've seen here.

Looking On · Post by **Looking On** » 13 Mar 2015, 16:42

5016 wrote:kaiserbill: Most of the current weight classes are where they are because of stones (units of 14lbs). for example

flyweight = 112 = 8 stone
Featherweight = 126 = 9 stone
welterweight = 147 = 10 1/2 stone
middleweight = 160 = (almost) 11 1/2 stone
light heavy = 175 = 12 1/2 stone

so perhaps it would make sense for any new weight class to follow the same pattern

Which is the very reason i think what would work a little better is to drop cruiserweight to 14st instead of 14st 4lbs and then add Super Cruiserweight with a 15 stone limit. Heavyweight anything over 15st (210lbs) leave everything else as it stands currently