GGG vs middleweight B-Hop

[Lackeos]

Trinidad and DLH are top tier elite fighters, but they were not real middleweights. Sorry if I touch somebody religious beliefs, but what real middleweights defeated by Hopkins in 1994-2004 could be called elite ?

What elite fighters period has Golovkin beaten in any range of time? Hopkins wasn't dwarfing Trinidad or DLH either, he weighed-in at 157 and 156 for those fights. Trinidad outweighed Hopkins and was a 2-to-1 betting favorite.

[ikorolev]

Trinidad and DLH are top tier elite fighters, but they were not real middleweights. Sorry if I touch somebody religious beliefs, but what real middleweights defeated by Hopkins in 1994-2004 could be called elite ?

What elite fighters period has Golovkin beaten in any range of time? Hopkins wasn't dwarfing Trinidad or DLH either, he weighed-in at 157 and 156 for those fights. Trinidad outweighed Hopkins and was a 2-to-1 betting favorite.

Golovkin hasn't beaten any, but his level of opposition since getting on HBO is comparable with Bernard's opposition in 1994-2004 except Tito and Oscar. Hopkins was in fact dwarfing DLH. They looked like they were two weight classes apart. Trinidad also looked smaller even though he is of the same height. The size/strength advantage was a major factor in Bernard's win.

[stevedoc]

Hopkins by KO/TKO, if he was good enough to stop Tito and Oscar then he'll damn sure be good enough to stop an unproven 3G.

so because Hopkins stopped a former superfeather weight and a welterweight he stops golovkin ...
Hopkins never once beat a good middle weight loads of welterweights but now he's gonna ko the hardest punching middle weight in the last 25 years ,GGG has never been floored as an amateur or pro but Hopkins will manage that......

[klitoris]

Hopkins is too big for Golovkin imo. Plus Bernard took a tonne of punishment from Kovalev and didn't get knocked out or TKO'd. I think if Bernard kept it at a distance for 2/3 of the fight and make GGG tired, Golovkin's punching power would decrease by the end of the fight, and he'd be able to open up more and win some of the last rounds and perhaps edge a decision. BHop ain't a middleweight really. His weight is basically Super Middle/Lightheavy.

[IKSRTFO]

Trinidad and DLH are top tier elite fighters, but they were not real middleweights. Sorry if I touch somebody religious beliefs, but what real middleweights defeated by Hopkins in 1994-2004 could be called elite ?

If I had to choose between top tier opponent a weight class below and a real MW who is just a standard fighter, the top tier elite opponent always will bring more bragging rights. Ask Hagler who didn't really get respect until he beat Duran and Hearns yet he dominated everyone at MW.

[Aaronide_ger]

Hopkins is too big for Golovkin imo. Plus Bernard took a tonne of punishment from Kovalev and didn't get knocked out or TKO'd. I think if Bernard kept it at a distance for 2/3 of the fight and make GGG tired, Golovkin's punching power would decrease by the end of the fight, and he'd be able to open up more and win some of the last rounds and perhaps edge a decision. BHop ain't a middleweight really. His weight is basically Super Middle/Lightheavy.

Golovkin was punching in the 11th in the Murray fight like he was punching in the 1st round, your arguement is invalid.

Also Kovalev Landed 166 Punches in 12 rounds.. only in the last round he was able to land 38 punches while in every other round he was at 10-11.

Ofc He wont get knocked out with his durability + lack of punches from Kovalev.

Golovkin Beats Prime Hopkins in my opinion, all of you who think Hopkins will Clinch his way to victory all night long are so wrong, he simply wont be able to do that with success, because he has never faced a guy that cuts the ring of like GGG and is technically amazing.

[ikorolev]

Trinidad and DLH are top tier elite fighters, but they were not real middleweights. Sorry if I touch somebody religious beliefs, but what real middleweights defeated by Hopkins in 1994-2004 could be called elite ?

If I had to choose between top tier opponent a weight class below and a real MW who is just a standard fighter, the top tier elite opponent always will bring more bragging rights. Ask Hagler who didn't really get respect until he beat Duran and Hearns yet he dominated everyone at MW.

Yes, they bring more bragging rights but they have little chances to win. Hopkins beating Trinidad and DLH could be compared to Golovkin beating Cotto and Pacquiao.

[GL14]

He is a legend due to his longevity and some people he beat outside of the discussed period. None of his 1994-2004 opponents beside Tito and Oscar qualify for elite status.

None of Golovkin's opponents in his entire professional career have been elite. Golovkin himself isn't even elite in the way that prime DLH and prime Trinidad were. In fact, Golovkin's accomplishments are much more closely on-par with William Joppy's or Fernando Vargas's. Golovkin's best wins against Macklin, Geale, Murray, etc. are pretty comparable, if not worse, than Vargas's wins over Luis Ramon Campas, Winky Wright, and Ike Quartey. Golovkin's 14 title wins against gatekeepers and middling contenders are like Joppy's 11 title wins against gatekeepers and middling contenders. Of course, even if you tossed-out Trinidad's wins over Joppy and Vargas, his official win over DLH, and his win over mildly past-prime Whitaker, the remainder of Trinidad's resume still trumps Golovkin's. Of course, DLH's wins over Whitaker and JCC make anything Golovkin ever has done or ever will do look like a joke; and if you subtract those wins, the remainder of DLH's resume against John John Molina, Rafael Ruelas, Genaro Hernandez, Miguel Angel Gonzalez, Wilfredo Rivera, Ike Quartey, Javier Castillejo, and Fernando Vargas still easily trumps Golovkin's. Pretty much all of those names are better individually than Golovkin's best scalp.

Two things that IMO w/DLH that were results of poor judging : his "win" over Whitaker and his "loss" to Trinidad. Haha sorry just had to (nothing here in the post that I disagree with )

[ikorolev]

Trinidad and DLH are top tier elite fighters, but they were not real middleweights. Sorry if I touch somebody religious beliefs, but what real middleweights defeated by Hopkins in 1994-2004 could be called elite ?

Hopkins competed in 21 world title fights between 1994 & 2004 and defeated the following world champions:
• Oscar De La Hoya -- not a MW
• William Joppy -- not between 1994 and 2004
• Carl Daniels -- not between 1994 and 2004
• Felix Trinidad -- not a MW
• Keith Holmes -- not between 1994 and 2004
• Simon Brown -- not elite. Wasn't a champion when fighting BH. Lost 6 fights in a row starting with the BH one.
• Glen Johnson -- not elite. Wasn't a champion when fighting BH. Had a padded record with no good wins.
• John David Jackson -- not elite at MW. Lost to 9-6 fighter right before BH. Haven't beaten a good MW.

Fergus, you surprise me. Normally, you are so detail oriented, but here you couldn't follow simple directions: specify real elite MWs defeated by Bernard between 1994 and 2004. See above. NONE (!!!) of them satisfies that criteria.

[observer1]

What's this "not real MW" BS.

What purpose is it moving up or down Weight Classes.

Tito was undefeated and a champion at MW. He got KO'd by Hopkins.

DLH wanted to the fight at 158. Hopkins came in at 156 and KO'd him.

Hopkins UD's GGG all day long

[GL14]

Also Joppy & Holmes were between '94-'04

[IKSRTFO]

Trinidad and DLH are top tier elite fighters, but they were not real middleweights. Sorry if I touch somebody religious beliefs, but what real middleweights defeated by Hopkins in 1994-2004 could be called elite ?

If I had to choose between top tier opponent a weight class below and a real MW who is just a standard fighter, the top tier elite opponent always will bring more bragging rights. Ask Hagler who didn't really get respect until he beat Duran and Hearns yet he dominated everyone at MW.

Yes, they bring more bragging rights but they have little chances to win. Hopkins beating Trinidad and DLH could be compared to Golovkin beating Cotto and Pacquiao.

Of course they have chances. Trinidad was favored over Bhop and Leonard got the victory over Hagler.

[ikorolev]

What's this "not real MW" BS.

What purpose is it moving up or down Weight Classes.

Tito was undefeated and a champion at MW. He got KO'd by Hopkins.

DLH wanted to the fight at 158. Hopkins came in at 156 and KO'd him.

Hopkins UD's GGG all day long

So, if GGG beats Cotto, he will get full credit for that ? Noway.

[ikorolev]

Also Joppy & Holmes were between '94-'04

Right. I apologize for the mixup.

Joppy was a good middleweight and was defeated inside that period. However, he did not have one good win after fighting Hopkins in 2003. Holmes's record is very padded.

[expe]

Trinidad and DLH are top tier elite fighters, but they were not real middleweights. Sorry if I touch somebody religious beliefs, but what real middleweights defeated by Hopkins in 1994-2004 could be called elite ?

Hopkins competed in 21 world title fights between 1994 & 2004 and defeated the following world champions:
• Oscar De La Hoya -- not a MW
• William Joppy -- not between 1994 and 2004
• Carl Daniels -- not between 1994 and 2004
• Felix Trinidad -- not a MW
• Keith Holmes -- not between 1994 and 2004
• Simon Brown -- not elite. Wasn't a champion when fighting BH. Lost 6 fights in a row starting with the BH one.
• Glen Johnson -- not elite. Wasn't a champion when fighting BH. Had a padded record with no good wins.
• John David Jackson -- not elite at MW. Lost to 9-6 fighter right before BH. Haven't beaten a good MW.

Fergus, you surprise me. Normally, you are so detail oriented, but here you couldn't follow simple directions: specify real elite MWs defeated by Bernard between 1994 and 2004. See above. NONE (!!!) of them satisfies that criteria.

2003, 2002 and 2001 aren't between 1994 and 2004? What a fornicating bellsmash you are.

For the record, Hopkins beats Golovkin on points, Golovkin doesn't have the power to knock him out and Hopkins would slow the pace, tie him up constantly and pot shot his way to a unanimous decision victory.

[ikorolev]

If I had to choose between top tier opponent a weight class below and a real MW who is just a standard fighter, the top tier elite opponent always will bring more bragging rights. Ask Hagler who didn't really get respect until he beat Duran and Hearns yet he dominated everyone at MW.

Yes, they bring more bragging rights but they have little chances to win. Hopkins beating Trinidad and DLH could be compared to Golovkin beating Cotto and Pacquiao.

Of course they have chances. Trinidad was favored over Bhop and Leonard got the victory over Hagler.

That's what distinguish all time greats. They often win when having disadvantage.

[ikorolev]

For the record, Hopkins beats Golovkin on points, Golovkin doesn't have the power to knock him out and Hopkins would slow the pace, tie him up constantly and pot shot his way to a unanimous decision victory.

Of course, if you say so, he will. Many people said he would school Kovalev too. Golovkin would not allow him to slow the pace. Bernard would have to work hard for 12 rounds to not get stopped.

[ikorolev]

De La Hoya held the WBO world middleweight title when Hopkins faced him. And Trinidad held the WBA version of the middleweight championship when he lost to Bernard.

Why did you decide to side-step the questions I posed to you about Gennady Golovkin?

Golovkin'n resume is not very impressive, and there is nothing to be discussed about that except why that happened.

What I was trying to say is that during 10 years of Bernard's career ending in 2004 mentioned by the poster, most of his opposition was also not so impressive. I already apologized about my mixup with a few fights which in fact happened during the discussed period, but again those opponents were not all that great.

Regarding DLH or Tito owning a MW title, Cotto also got one and Pacquiao could have one if he fought one legged Martinez or Soliman, but it doesn't mean that Golovkin destroying such significantly smaller opponents would be a big achievement.

[Chepppaaa]

De La Hoya held the WBO world middleweight title when Hopkins faced him. And Trinidad held the WBA version of the middleweight championship when he lost to Bernard.

Why did you decide to side-step the questions I posed to you about Gennady Golovkin?

Golovkin'n resume is not very impressive, and there is nothing to be discussed about that except why that happened.

What I was trying to say is that during 10 years of Bernard's career ending in 2004 mentioned by the poster, most of his opposition was also not so impressive. I already apologized about my mixup with a few fights which in fact happened during the discussed period, but again those opponents were not all that great.

Regarding DLH or Tito owning a MW title, Cotto also got one and Pacquiao could have one if he fought one legged Martinez or Soliman, but it doesn't mean that Golovkin destroying such significantly smaller opponents would be a big achievement.

Fair enough, we’ll agree to disagree. At least I addressed your question about the men that Hopkins faced between 1994 & 2004, which others chose to avoid.

I personally believe that Hopkins resume between 1994 & 2004 (i.e. your specified time period) is massively better than Golovkin’s… and it seems that you’ve conceded my point, which is all I can ask for really.

hopkins resume from 94-04 is better than gggs resume, but the point is, does that realy matter in a coutcome prime X vs prime GGG?

so hopkins goes into the ring against b-level fighters like robert allen or keith holmes and beat them easily.
so ggg goes into the ring with b-level fighters like murray or geale and beats them easily.

okay, now what, they both can beat b-level fighters, great.

but ones an b+ or a+-level boxer like taylor or jones comes around than hopkins starts losing.....
basicly we would have to weight how ggg fights a b+ or a level kind of boxer, sadly, except quillon who is b+ in my eyes, there is nothing a level type at middleweight except ggg himself, but he cant fight himself, so we cant exactly say how he would do against a. all we know is that X even at his favourite weight at midd. had problems against an a level opponent. and ikorev is right trinidad and oscarito were 147, maybe 154, but they had 0 business at midd.!!!

style wise, i could see prime X make a lot of problems for ggg, by fighting the same style against trinidad, boxing unpredictable, being sharp and with low but precise punch output and being fast on the feet. in the other hand, x would not deal with a blown up welterweight or a b level boxer, he would deal with a guy who some say might be the in the top 5 of the hardest punchers the middleweight division has ever seen, someone who can punch quick to the body, just as good as the the head and is also unpredictable with his looping punches. strength wise they equal, power wise ggg over x all day and technic wise x over ggg all day. tough i'd say ones x realy feels gggs power, he starts running to much and gives up to many rounds, close ud win for ggg.

[Chepppaaa]

hopkins resume from 94-04 is better than gggs resume, but the point is, does that realy matter in a coutcome prime X vs prime GGG?

Fantasy fights should be considered as a little bit of fun. They can never happen, so all we can do is evaluate both men in terms of their resumes, feedback from their opponents/trainers/etc. and also use our own perception of their talents to speculate the possible outcome.

Therefore, the quality of resume is moderately important when considering trivial things like fantasy match-ups.

Regardless, I simply tried to address ikorolev’s question, which I feel I succeeded.

dont be a smug.

you answered his question, congratulation on a great job.

i am a boxing expert and most of the fights i predict end up being the way i predicted, so when i predict ggg close ud over x, than there is a big chance it is right. certainly better to judge a fight based on fantasy and what the boxer capable of doing than on going mostly on resume.

[Chepppaaa]

80 % skills
20 % resume

thats how i judge fights...

so you than have it otherwise, okay....

[chucktaylor]

I have to take Bhop based on what I've seen from GGG. Hopkins would show him movement he hasn't seen before. The guys who beat Bhop at or near prime had elite speed and were tougher for him to time and move against, so he got outworked and outboxed as they could get off first and not get hit often enough, but GGG doesn't seem to have that elite speed that RJJ, Taylor and Calzaghe shared.

[Chepppaaa]

I have to take Bhop based on what I've seen from GGG. Hopkins would show him movement he hasn't seen before. The guys who beat Bhop at or near prime had elite speed and were tougher for him to time and move against, so he got outworked and outboxed as they could get off first and not get hit often enough, but GGG doesn't seem to have that elite speed that RJJ, Taylor and Calzaghe shared.

yeah, i aggree, prime X movemants were fast and sharp, also he was complex in his attacks. very hard to figure out, especially when you dont have world class speed or are prety much flar footed.

when i think about it, it is such a shame, that roy didnt want to do a catch weight fight when X was prime, also that X didnt go up one division for prime calzaghe. I mean, in my oppinion not 1 person, but all 3 are to blame. x didnt went up 1, calzaghe didnt push for big fights and roy was acting stupid like :"for 70/30 you got the fight", when x was beating trinidad and it was obvious that it was a 50/50 split or even 60/40 for x, because x realy made a name for himself. imagine around 2003 calzaghe, X and jones all at super middleweight, all 3 prime or near prime, that would have been much much better than x boxing b level, calzaghe boxing b level and roy going up to face the second most boring heavyweight ever.

[ikorolev]

very hard to figure out, especially when you dont have world class speed or are prety much flar footed.

Ah, that's why everybody is avoiding him and ones who don't get stopped. I don't remember many fighters ducking Bernard.

[Chepppaaa]

very hard to figure out, especially when you dont have world class speed or are prety much flar footed.

Ah, that's why everybody is avoiding him and ones who don't get stopped. I don't remember many fighters ducking Bernard.

okay....and what has x not being ducked being to do with x quality?