Post Your Scorecards

[Seamus]

When they fought, all I remember hearing was that Ali looked pretty bad, and I saw some highlights which wasn't enough to go by. Than Ambling Alp pm'd me and told me to watch and said it was much closer than reported. Now I agree.

[hhaehre]

When they fought, all I remember hearing was that Ali looked pretty bad, and I saw some highlights which wasn't enough to go by. Than Ambling Alp pm'd me and told me to watch and said it was much closer than reported. Now I agree.

I didn't see it very close. I have a hard time giving Ali more than 2 rounds and I thought he looked pretty bad. It was a sad fight in the light of what he once was. Fought in a tent in the Bahamas with a cow bell signaling rounds, a sad ending to a stellar career. At least the Holmes fight had the big-fight venue and feel.

[Arbachakov]

That Zapata Laciar card is dubious imo.Very close fight imo, but also a huge let down considering the talent on show.Have to blame Zapata for that i guess as laciar tried his best to make a fight, but hit air all night, while Zapata was going through a tough time in his career after blowing up in weight following the 2nd Chang loss...and just didn't seem focused at all.Gave one of his worst performances offensively.

[Seamus]

The scoring in Chang v Zapata I and Laciar v Zapata was ridiculous. Sure Zapata made both guys miss alot of punches, but they through more than enough to win comfortably against a guy who wasn't doing much on the offensive end.

[Arbachakov]

yes, Chang was robbed, but Laciar wasn't anywhere near as effective as him.He was hitting air all night and both fighters probably landed at a similar rate.

[scartissue]

Muhammad Ali vs. George Chuvalo II

There seems to be an urban myth with this one that's gaining legs, so I thought I would have a look. The 5 point must system was employed.

Round 1: Ali - 5-4
Round 2: Ali - 5-4
Round 3: Chuvalo - 5-4
Round 4: Ali - 5-4
Round 5: Ali - 5-4
Round 6: Ali - 5-4
Round 7: Chuvalo - 5-4
Round 8: Ali - 5-4
Round 9: Ali - 5-4
Round 10: Chuvalo - 5-4
Round 11: Ali - 5-4
Round 12: Ali - 5-4

Total 57-51 Ali

Chuvalo had his moments but he couldn't keep an attack sustained. He would flurry, but then Ali was gone hitting George with rapid combos once again. George did well, but it's just an urban myth that he was robbed.

[elmersalsa]

Vicente Saldivar vs Howard Winstone II

R1.5-4 HW
R2.5-4 HW
R3.5-5
R4.5-4 VS
R5.5-4 VS
R6.5-5
R7.5-4 VS
R8.5-4 HW
R9.5-4 HW
R10.5-5
R11.5-4 VS
R12.5-4 VS
R13.5-4 VS
R14.5-2 VS
R15.5-4 VS
Vicente Saldivar 71-65

Not sure what the actual scoring system was,
but since it appeared somewhat similar to the 5 pt must, that's what I used.
Winstone made a fine start before the home fans and scored heavily with jabs
and straight right against the initially sluggish looking Saldivar, but the
Mexican Southpaw began firing back hard bodyshots in the 4th round. Winstone
still looked the slightly better of the two thru the 10th, but after that it
was nearly all Saldivar, who looked stronger and stronger. Winstone looked
ready to go in the 14th, but fought back hard in the final round.

Eusebio Pedroza vs Juan LaPorte

R1.10-9 JL
R2.10-9 JL
R3.10-7 JL 1pt taken from Pedroza
R4.10-9 EP
R5.10-9 JL
R6.10-9 JL
R7.10-9 EP
R8.9-9 1 pt taken from Pedroza
R9.10-10
R10.10-9 EP
R11.10-9 EP
R12.10-9 EP
R13.10-10
R14.10-9 JL 1pt taken from Pedroza
R15.10-9 EP
Juan LaPorte 143-141

BoxRec lists Pedroza as having had 2pts
deducted in this fight, but in the telecast it appeared to be 3. (he
probably deserved to lose 4 or 5) So I'd
either have LaPorte winning by 1 or 2 pts.

I hadn't watched this bout since I saw it live,
and I couldn't believe the things Pedroza got away with, low blows, elbows,
holding and hitting, and not just a few times. LaPorte made a great start
and hammered the champion in the 2nd and 3rd rds. In fact with the way he
wobbled Pedroza and with the pt deduction I scored the 3rd a 10-7 rd for
LaPorte. Pedroza's low blows and kidney punches took there toll on LaPorte,
allowing him to make this fight closer than it should have been, but I think
LaPorte still did enough to pull it out.

I had the great Eusebio Pedroza winning the fight.

[elmersalsa]

Scartissue. It was a gallant performance from Winstone, who fought his heart out, but the fight wasn't that close. Saldivar really pulled away in the last 5 and Winstone was nearly gone in the 14th.

Saldivar really creamed him!. Howard Winstone was the great "El Zurdo de Oro" greatest opponent. Very underrated that Winstone.

[elmersalsa]

Ken did win that first one, nobody disputes that.

Ken Norton won all three fights in my view.

[elmersalsa]

Where's Elmer Salsa when you need him. And to prove I wasn't biased in my scoring, I had Duran winning by a wider margin than any of the 3 judges in the rematch.

Edwin Viruet did not do enough to win.

[Seamus]

And now some Carlos Monzon fights.

Carlos Monzon vs Tony Licata

Won't do a rd by rd since I had Licata winning the 1st and Monzon the rest, including the 8th by 10-7. Scoring at the time of stoppage. Carlos Monzon 89-80. On one hand you could say the result was never in doubt, on the other you could say that despite being way ahead, Monzon was still getting hit in every round.

Carlos Monzon vs Emile Griffith I

Rd 1.10-10
Rd 2.10-9 EG
Rd 3.10-9 CM
Rd 4.10-9 CM
Rd 5.10-9 CM
Rd 6.10-9 CM
Rd 7.10-9 CM
Rd 8.10-9 CM
Rd 9.10-9 CM
Rd 10.10-9 EG
Rd 11.10-9 CM
Rd 12.10-10
Rd.13.10-9 EG

Carlos Monzon 127-122 at the time of the stoppage.

Carlos Monzon vs Emile Griffith II

Rd 1. 10-9 EG
Rd 2.10-9 CM
Rd 3.10-10
Rd 4.10-10
Rd 5.10-9 CM
Rd 6.10-9 CM
Rd 7.10-9 CM
Rd 8.10-10
Rd 9.10-9 EG
Rd 10 10-9 EG
Rd 11.10-9 EG
Rd 12.10-9 CM
Rd 13.10-9 CM
Rd 14.10-9 CM
Rd 15.10-10

Carlos Monzon 146-143

[scartissue]

A fight that nagged at me for years was the Trevor Berbick-Renaldo Snipes fight. I saw it when it happened and although I didn't score it, I felt Berbick had done enough to win. I was in the total minority with some people at the time that also watched it, but like then, I seemed to be more impressed with the short jolting punches Berbick would throw while infighting. I read on a message board someone commenting on this fight that they too had Berbick winning so I thought I would check it out again. The fight tends to get sloppy as they tire and there are some subjective rounds that could go either way such as rounds 5, 9 and 10, so I really don't have a problem with the decision. The scoring is on a rounds basis, no extra point for the knockdown unless the fight is scored a draw such as Mercante's card and then they go to supplemental scoring, in which an additional point for the knockdown can be employed.

Berbick - Snipes

Round 1: Snipes (scored a knockdown)
Round 2: Berbick
Round 3: Snipes
Round 4: Berbick
Round 5: Even
Round 6: Berbick
Round 7: Berbick
Round 8: Snipes
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Berbick

5-3-2 Berbick

[scartissue]

Mike McCallum vs Herol Graham

R1.10-9 HG
R2.10-10
R3.10-9 MM
R4.10-9 HG
R5.10-9 HG
R6.10-9 HG
R7.10-9 HG
R8.9-9 1 pt taken from Graham
R9.10-9 MM
R10.10-9 MM
R11.10-10
R12.10-9 MM

Herol Graham 115-114

Almost a lackluster performance from the Body Snatcher, who didn't really look himself till the late rounds, even then I thought Graham just did gut out a hard won decision on my card.

Seamus, finally got around to giving this a gander. Very difficult to score but here ya go.

Round 1: 10-9 Graham
Round 2: 10-9 Graham
Round 3: 10-9 McCallum
Round 4: 10-9 Graham
Round 5: 10-8 Graham - The ref scored that as a knockdown. I don't agree, I think it was a slip but it was scored as such.
Round 6: 10-10 Even
Round 7: 10-9 McCallum
Round 8: 10-9 McCallum - I scored it even but one point deducted from Graham makes it 10-9.
Round 9: 10-9 McCallum
Round 10: 10-9 McCallum
Round 11: 10-9 McCallum
Round 12: 10-9 McCallum

115-113 McCallum - A tough fight to score, but it was the latter rounds that won it for McCallum on my card. They were both tiring, especially in the 11th and 12th, but McCallum's punches just had that much more pop to them.

[scartissue]

Ishimatsu (Guts) Suzuki vs. Ken Buchanan

Here's a fight I always wanted to check out. I obviously differ from the official scores, but I think Buchanan's neat boxing was largely ignored in this fight. The crowd screamed at anything Suzuki threw and it may have intimidated most. Regardless, this is the way I scored it.

Round 1: 10-9 Buchanan
Round 2: 10-10 Even
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Buchanan
Round 5: 10-9 Suzuki
Round 6: 10-9 Buchanan
Round 7: 10-9 Buchanan
Round 8: 10-9 Buchanan
Round 9: 10-9 Suzuki
Round 10: 10-9 Buchanan
Round 11: 10-9 Buchanan
Round 12: 10-9 Suzuki
Round 13: 10-9 Suzuki
Round 14: 10-9 Suzuki
Round 15: 10-9 Suzuki

144-143 Buchanan

[TheWigwam]

Don't remember the scorecards but I had:
Sturm beating Murray by 2-3 points
Martinez beating Murray by 1 point
Chisora only beating Helenius by 2-3 points (still a bad decision.)

I don't dislike Murray and I am a fan of his after the GGG fight.

[scartissue]

Salvador Sanchez vs Patrick Ford

R1 10-9 PF
R2 10-9 PF
R3 10-9 SS
R4 10-10 Even
R5 10-9 PF
R6 10-9 SS
R7 10-10 Even
R8 10-9 SS
R9 10-9 SS
R10 10-9 SS
R11 10-9 SS
R12 10-9 SS
R13 10-9 SS
R14 10-9 SS
R15 10-9 SS

Salvador Sanchez 147-140

I simply did not see the alleged upset in this bout. Patrick Ford boxed beautifully through the first 7 rds, but after that Sanchez was clearly in control, and kept landing the big punch, usually a right hand over Ford's low held left, and kept winning the exchanges.

Seamus, saw this fight live when it happened and I thought Ford just nicked it. However, at the time I just tallied in my head. Sitting down now with pen in hand I don't have it much different except that I have Sanchez just nicking it. Damn close fight. I obviously enjoy good boxing which is why I tend leaning towards a boxer at times. Sanchez looked so uncomfortable in this fight. He really shone against a slugger where his counter-punching skills could do their work. But against a boxer like Castillo, Ford, Cowdell he always looked uncomfortable having to force the fight. Anyways, here's my score.

Round 1: 10-9 Ford
Round 2: 10-9 Ford
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Ford
Round 5: 10-9 Ford
Round 6: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 7: 10-9 Ford
Round 8: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 9: 10-9 Ford
Round 10: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 11: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 12: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 13: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 14: 10-10 Even
Round 15: 10-9 Sanchez

144-143 Sanchez

[scartissue]

I must be on a Sal Sanchez kick cuz I just watched his bout with Azumah Nelson. Great fight and here's how I saw it.

Sanchez-Nelson

Round 1: 10-9 Nelson
Round 2: 10-9 Nelson
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Nelson
Round 5: 10-9 Nelson
Round 6: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 7: 10-8 Sanchez (knockdown)
Round 8: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 9: 10-9 Sanchez
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Nelson
Round 12: 10-9 Nelson
Round 13: 10-10 Even
Round 14: 10-9 Nelson
Round 15: TKO for Sanchez

Through 14 rounds: 135-133 Nelson

The 13th round was a tough one to score depending on your criteria. Nelson was taking the round with a lot of eye-catching flurries but Sanchez was digging to the body well. I would have given the round to Nelson (like Larry Holmes did) but that last left hook that almost dropped Nelson swayed an even round on my card. Although I had Nelson up, if he had survived the 15th I would have had an even score and Sanchez would have retained it on a draw. But a moot point as Nelson was in severe distress and the stoppage was correct. A real valiant effort by a relatively professional novice.

[Counter-puncher]

Good post, good score, brilliant (and if anything slightly underrated) fight

[Seamus]

This was the closest fight I ever saw Sanchez in, and even then I think he could have ended it alot earlier, but left Nelson off the hook. Maybe I'll get accused of being biased because SS is one of my alltime favorites, but I just didn't think the Ford, Cowdell, and Castillo fights were close.

[Counter-puncher]

Not sure let off the hook, Seamus. I think he was tight enough at the weight by then that he had to use his energy very wisely and maybe couldn't sustain huge assaults for that long (or recover from them that quickly)

the near-psychotic effort of nelson's fighting heart dragging himself back into it, also deserves great credit

[Counter-puncher]

Also worth mentioning that Sanchez took a lot of huge booming bodyshots from a guy with a big big punch at the weight, no way they didn't have an effect.

[scartissue]

Just sat down and scored the August 23, 1971 rematch between Rafael Herrera and Chucho Castillo. What a great fight. I was fortunate to see almost all that card back in the day on tape delay (about 6 months of a delay). I saw the Olivares-Galeano fight and the Halimi Gutierrez-Fernando Cabanela fight. Didn't see the Napoles-Josselin fight but the other 3 were competitive and exciting. I think i scored Herrera-Castillo something like 7-4 or 7-5 at the time for Herrera, but again, what a fight. What I notice now is that you cannot make a mistake against Castillo or he will have you on the counter punch. If you miss or leave yourself open or get complacent he will have you on the counter-punch. So this turned into a hard-punching chess match. There were a few issues with the youtube video, which would freeze up for a few seconds just about every round. You can hear the commentary continuing during the freeze-up and then it would start in normal time, so you miss a few seconds and in this fight with every round so close that's a bit nerve-wracking. Anyways here we go. California scoring of 1 point for a round and none for even rounds.

Herrera-Castillo II

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Castillo
Round 3: Herrera
Round 4: Castillo (the video on this round was only about a minute and a half)
Round 5: Herrera
Round 6: Castillo
Round 7: Castillo
Round 8: Herrera
Round 9: Herrera
Round 10: Herrera (the freeze-up in this round lasted about 15 seconds)
Round 11: Castillo
Round 12: Even

5-5 Draw

The freeze-ups were infuriating because a fight this close can be determined by what you're missing. Round 4 and 10 were obviously an issue. but I hope it doesn't detract you guys from watching what is a good fight.

[Counter-puncher]

Nice description, Castillo was a nice fighter. The Olivares fights were real good tough chessmatches too

[scartissue]

Nice description, Castillo was a nice fighter. The Olivares fights were real good tough chessmatches too

It was that explosive counter-punching that dropped Olivares in their 1st and 3rd fights. Would've loved to seen Castillo's fight with Pimental.

[scartissue]

Here's a fight I viewed a couple of years ago and I just found my card when I scored it. I'm sure it's still relevant. My scoring hasn't changed all that much. Anyways, here is Ruben Olivares vs. Alexis Arguello through 12 rounds, California scoring.

Round 1: Even
Round 2: Arguello
Round 3: Olivares
Round 4: Olivares
Round 5: Arguello
Round 6: Even
Round 7: Olivares
Round 8: Olivares
Round 9: Olivares
Round 10: Olivares
Round 11: Olivares
Round 12: Olivares
Round 13: KO for Arguello

Total: 8-2 Olivares

Quite amazing the way Olivares at 5'5" put the hurt on the 5'10" Arguello. Of course, it's the way I saw it, but I would like to hear from others on this one.