Most Skillfull Fighter Of Alltime ?

[Seamus]

Should be an easy question. Not about who accomplished the most or could have, or who was the biggest puncher, most durable, fastest,fittest. etc. Just a simple, who had the greatest ring skills in the history of the sport ?

[BoxBuzz]

That's a tough one, because you have to make some judgement calls as to what set of "skills" are more valuable.

With what my eyes have seen first hand:


I liked Whitaker for panache, and athleticism, he was the smoothest operator I've ever seen. But a lot of folks just don't see that sort of defensive fighting as their cup of tea.

I like Monzon for ring generalship. He just owned you but he was a balancing act of defense and offense. A computer that was always testing and evolving against whatever style was in front of him.

SRL at his best, and Duran who bested him when they were at their best are both contenders in my book.....for vastly different skill sets.


None of us have ever seen Harry Greb...so he has to be the best. So lets just figure out who's in second place.


I have a hard time factoring heavies into this at all. But LHW's Charles, Moore, and Johnson were a great three musketeers at that weight class.


Sugar Ray Robinson and Willie Pep are in the mix.

[Seamus]

My pick is Willie Pep. Don't think there was anything that guy couldn't do to perfection in the ring.

[BoxBuzz]

You sure your not lettin' Angelo Dundee sell ya a bill of goods? You know he was owned by that Sandy Saddler fella.

[Seamus]

Bologna. I'd put it at one win a piece with the other two results inconclusive. And that was after a plane crash. Besides I'm talking pure boxing skills, Saddler did have some, but Pep couldn't miss his target vs SS. Alot of the times though it was like catching Frankenstein's monster with a 4 punch combination, and he just keeps coming.

[BoxBuzz]

I completely agree, just testin' your resolve.

[DaveyMac]

SRL

[stevedoc]

SRL

[Seamus]

SRL is near the top.

[Scypion]

Probably Pep and/or Robinson.

[elmersalsa]

the great Roberto Duran got to be up there.

Others:
Eusebio Pedroza
Sugar Ray Leonard
Luis Manuel Rodriguez
Ismael Laguna
Ezzard Charles

[Scypion]

SRL

Not sure that I agree about SRL as far as skill. SRL had 40 fights. I don't think that he compares in skill with greats like Charles, Moore, Pep, and Robinson, who had well over 100 fights. What Leonard had was speed and talent. When he started losing some of his speed, he started having trouble in some fights. I believe that SRL saw the handwriting on the wall when he lost to Norris at 34, and then retired (at least until the Camacho fight).

Roberto Duran fought until he was 50, and his skill carried him in some of his fights even though he was far past his prime. He gave a 34 year old Camacho a good fight even though he was 45 at the time. Some even thought he won including none other than Sugar Ray Leonard (which led up to his fight with Camacho).

JMO, but I thought what made SRL so good was his speed and talent. I would go along with Crease's list and have SRL as top 5 all time in the welterweight division.

[davie]

A few of the names on this list I haven't watched, so I'm perhaps under-qualified to make a full assessment, but Sugar Ray Leonard is the best I've seen in terms of skill

Although he is often over-rated by some in terms of ATG list and the likes, I think Floyd Mayweather has to be considered in a list of skilled fighters.
Some will point to his timing and speed being his strongest assets but his skills cannot be over-looked, particularly his defensive skills, he can make not getting hit look like an art form and make it look stupidly easy at the same time

[jimglen]

HUNDREDS man Hundreds.

Defensive wizards like PBF, Pep and the smoker El Untouchable, Len Harvey and LOADS of Old Time Defensive masters

First Class boxers and Stylist like SRR, Camacho, Britain's Ernie Roderick and dozens more.

Excellent Pure Boxers and basic text book skills like Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Holmes and Michael Watson for example.

Cagy, Crafty guys like JJW and clever fighters that have you swinging at mid air or a corner post, only to right back at you picking you apart.

Gifted athletic marvels like Lloyd Marshal and RJJ, tricksters and great boxers.

Box/fighters like Hagler, MvAvoy, JCC and hundreds more.

Killers like Dempsey, Marciano, Frazier, Tyson, Benn and now GGG.

and thousands of SKILLED Solid Pro's like Haugan and Jeremy Williams for example.

self Professed greats with excellent skills, but not necessarily the greatest like Ali & SRL and such self loving but have the tools too type fighters.

where do you start it depends on taste & appreciation, for me it's the Beautiful Boxers that win it followed by the Lloyd Marshalls and JJW's who though more crafty are also beautiful boxers.

Benny Leonard
Canzoneri
Carbajal
Lynch

spoilers too, for some people like Monzon or Bhop.

as I said HUNDREDS!!!

[Tomasino]

Willie Pep, Joe Gans, Pernell Whittaker, Wilfred Benitez are up there. Maybe Charley Burley and Mike Gibbons.

[evrenb]

Sorry if obvious but no one thinks Ali???

[Tomasino]

Sorry if obvious but no one thinks Ali???

More talented than skilful IMO.

[evrenb]

Sorry if obvious but no one thinks Ali???

More talented than skilful IMO.

So standing in front of a dangerous opponent like Ernie Terrell with his hands down while Ernie through combinations at his face and
he evaded with minute movements isn't skillful? Or out foxing Foreman by laying on the ropes isn't either?? Anyway... Ali seems to be disregarded a lot these days by boxing experts. He only seems to be revered by the 'general public'. Strange that....

[expe]

Sorry if obvious but no one thinks Ali???

More talented than skilful IMO.

So standing in front of a dangerous opponent like Ernie Terrell with his hands down while Ernie through combinations at his face and
he evaded with minute movements isn't skillful? Or out foxing Foreman by laying on the ropes isn't either?? Anyway... Ali seems to be disregarded a lot these days by boxing experts. He only seems to be revered by the 'general public'. Strange that....

That's more reactions than outright boxing skill to me and he outfoxed Foreman because George was stupid and blew himself out. The general public badly overrate Ali, get people calling him the greatest fighter of all time and most of them don't know that it's just a nickname he gave himself.

[Ambling Alp II]

To me, skillful is about being technically sound in all phases of the sport.
To me, it would be Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, and Gene Tunney.

Pep was a better offensive fighter than other great defensive fighters like Whitaker and Benitez, but his offense wasn't enough to make him number #1.

Gans, Langford,Benny Leonard,Louis, Charles, Harold Johnson,Monzon, and maybe a few others are up there.
These guys all could throw any punch effectively, were clean punchers with good accuracy, and were good defensively. What sets Robinson Leonard, and Tunney apart is that also could move around the ring on their feet so well.
Others could move around well, but were missing other components.

[palooka]

Gilberto Roman was a fantastic boxer and very skilled, Benitez has to be high on anyone's list as well.

[evrenb]

More talented than skilful IMO.[/quote]

So standing in front of a dangerous opponent like Ernie Terrell with his hands down while Ernie through combinations at his face and
he evaded with minute movements isn't skillful? Or out foxing Foreman by laying on the ropes isn't either?? Anyway... Ali seems to be disregarded a lot these days by boxing experts. He only seems to be revered by the 'general public'. Strange that.... [/quote]
That's more reactions than outright boxing skill to me and he outfoxed Foreman because George was stupid and blew himself out. The general public badly overrate Ali, get people calling him the greatest fighter of all time and most of them don't know that it's just a nickname he gave himself.[/quote]

I think people let their personal feelings get in their way when they judge him...Both for and against

[Ricky_]

That's more reactions than outright boxing skill to me and he outfoxed Foreman because George was stupid and blew himself out. The general public badly overrate Ali, get people calling him the greatest fighter of all time and most of them don't know that it's just a nickname he gave himself.

Ali has a legit claim to GOAT. Not my choice, but he's in the mix. The man he based his style on gets my vote. I think boxing fans maybe think giving Ali his dues is a little cliche. But take stock for a second...

Sonny Liston: Albert Westphal, W, KO1. Floyd Patterson, W, KO1. Floyd Patterson, W, KO1. Cassius Clay, L, RTD, 6. Cassius Clay, L, KO1.

[evrenb]

I always thought Stevie Johnston was very skilled, as was Kid Gavilan and Archie Moore.

[palooka]

Prime Donald Curry was a pleasure to watch, he had a coordinated defence and went on the attack with brilliant timing, he was a very hard puncher too.