Newspaper Decisions

[HomicideHenry]

Newspaper decisions do give us an insight into that period of time, that's for sure. I do take singular accounts with a grain of salt, though. It only can be 'accepted' if more than two newspapers reported the same verdict. I don't know how many times I seen newspaper accounts saying one thing--- when there were three other papers that said another.

However, I will say, newspapers from that time do give us an insight into men who have been made into legends. Take Gene Tunney, for example. Alot of people say he's a top ten heavyweight, and one of the greatest p4p fighters to ever live. They always cite the 'one loss' as proof of his prowess. But if one reads the newspapers.... it seems that Mr. Tunney lost at least 3 times to Mr. Harry Greb in their series of matches. So, in my view, this 'humanizes' Tunney a bit. Takes him down a notch. Albeit not a big notch, but still.

[Ambling Alp II]

Tunney and Greb fought 5 times, overall on pretty even terms. If anything, Tunney has a slight edge.
Tunney won two of the three official verdicts. There was one unofficial verdict in which the fight was very close. There was another unofficial verdict (their 5th and last fight) in which virtually everyone thought Tunney won.

If one reads the newspapers, they would think Tunney was a great fighter. Doesn't take him down a notch at all.

Tunney was also very consistent, never losing to anyone else in a long career.
Besides Dempsey of course, he also beat Carpentier, Levinsky, and Tommy Gibbons. He was indeed one of the greatest fighters of all time. If anything, he is underrated.

[klompton]

Tunney may have won two official decisions but the second was considered a clear win for greb that was robbed by one of the worst decisions in new york history. Greb also won the nd bout in cleveland. Thats three bouts for greb and two for tunney. All fought when greb was smaller, past his prime, and blind in one eye.

[HomicideHenry]

Tunney may have won two official decisions but the second was considered a clear win for greb that was robbed by one of the worst decisions in new york history. Greb also won the nd bout in cleveland. Thats three bouts for greb and two for tunney. All fought when greb was smaller, past his prime, and blind in one eye.

and thats the gospel truth

[Mr E]

I think you have to look at the backstory for each particular fight and come to individual conclusions.

Many "no decision" fights came after big build-ups, carried title implications, and were obviously vigorously and seriously contested throughout.

However, many were essentially exhibitions that, no doubt, would have contested much more vigorously (or not at all) had the participants any idea that people would start handing out "wins" and "losses" 50-plus years after the fact. Had to be the case -- just looking at the number of fights some people had during the no decision era should make that clear. Only someone who never competed seriously himself could imagine a guy could have 3-4 fights/month for several years on end if they were real fights.

Ridiculous. Of course they were real fights. The only thing barring a decision at the time was state or city statutes. They were well aware that newspapers would be rendering decisions and fought accordingly. The instances where these fights were fought as little more than exhibitions are no more prevalent than they are today in shitty decision matches where two fighters arent trying.

There is no way these guys could have fought as often as many of them did giving 100% each time. Completely unrealistic to pretend otherwise.

[klompton]

I think you have to look at the backstory for each particular fight and come to individual conclusions.

Many "no decision" fights came after big build-ups, carried title implications, and were obviously vigorously and seriously contested throughout.

However, many were essentially exhibitions that, no doubt, would have contested much more vigorously (or not at all) had the participants any idea that people would start handing out "wins" and "losses" 50-plus years after the fact. Had to be the case -- just looking at the number of fights some people had during the no decision era should make that clear. Only someone who never competed seriously himself could imagine a guy could have 3-4 fights/month for several years on end if they were real fights.

Ridiculous. Of course they were real fights. The only thing barring a decision at the time was state or city statutes. They were well aware that newspapers would be rendering decisions and fought accordingly. The instances where these fights were fought as little more than exhibitions are no more prevalent than they are today in shitty decision matches where two fighters arent trying.

There is no way these guys could have fought as often as many of them did giving 100% each time. Completely unrealistic to pretend otherwise.

The burden of proof lies with you. The vast vast vast majority of first hand accounts disagree with you completely.

[Ambling Alp II]

Tunney may have won two official decisions but the second was considered a clear win for greb that was robbed by one of the worst decisions in new york history. Greb also won the nd bout in cleveland. Thats three bouts for greb and two for tunney. All fought when greb was smaller, past his prime, and blind in one eye.

and thats the gospel truth

No.
Some thought Greb got robbed in the New York fight (thier third fight), but there certainly were people who thought Tunney won fairly. The No-Decision fight in Cleveland was considered very close; opinion was very split on that one.

First Fight-Greb won official decision and won clearly.
2nd Fight-Tunney won official decision and fairly clearly.
3rd Fight- Tunney won official decision, some complaining but some thought Tunney won. Generally considered a close fight.
4th Fight-No Decision. Opinion split; generally considered a very close fight.
5th Fight. No-Decision, widely considered a very decisive win for Tunney.

Greb was still consistently beating tough competition at this time.
The Greb-Tunney series was very close. It is a very strong indication that Tunney was one of the All-Time Greats; backed up by evidence in other Tunney fights.

[Cap]

Greb. Very hard to argue in favour of a guy whose ring work on film does not exist. Many reports of getting away with using open gloves and many opponents referring to Greb's lack of a real punch. I expect Tunney had his number by their 5th fight. Not to say Greb wasn't highly regarded in his day. He was almost like Aaron Pryor but without real power.

As for newspaper decisions. As I said, they are all we have now to judge the progress of a fight. Unlike an official result from a referee or a referee and two appointed judges, they were not official. They were opinions of "possibly" biased sportswriters who had a stake in the events unfolding. An exciting report helped sell newspapers, especially if the local boy won. Not every reporter was a George Siler or Robert Edgren.