herol graham v nigel benn

[stevedoc]

I struggle to see any benn that beats herol , the middle weight benn had more power but less boxing skills and the super middle weight benn had better head movement paced himself better but less power ,I see Graham getting a stoppage around the 9th/10th

[BoxBuzz]

.....however....is there ANY explanation as to why Jackson beat Herol? Other than he hit him once too hard?

More important question. For the Benn supporters... IF Herol had never fought Jackson...who would you favor in this threads hypothetical?

In fact...if Herol would never have fought Jackson who would you favor in that fight...with no history to go on?

I'm taking a chance and favoring Graham....but all it takes is that "Jackson moment" and it's Deja Vu all over again with Benn.

[Broomhall]

.....however....is there ANY explanation as to why Jackson beat Herol? Other than he hit him once too hard?

More important question. For the Benn supporters... IF Herol had never fought Jackson...who would you favor in this threads hypothetical?

In fact...if Herol would never have fought Jackson who would you favor in that fight...with no history to go on?

I'm taking a chance and favoring Graham....but all it takes is that "Jackson moment" and it's Deja Vu all over again with Benn.

Benn isnt close to Jackson either as a puncher or a boxer.

[BoxBuzz]

.....however....is there ANY explanation as to why Jackson beat Herol? Other than he hit him once too hard?

More important question. For the Benn supporters... IF Herol had never fought Jackson...who would you favor in this threads hypothetical?

In fact...if Herol would never have fought Jackson who would you favor in that fight...with no history to go on?

I'm taking a chance and favoring Graham....but all it takes is that "Jackson moment" and it's Deja Vu all over again with Benn.

Benn isnt close to Jackson either as a puncher or a boxer.

Seriously? You think Benn is nowhere near Jackson's caliber? How would you rate McLellan in a round robin affair with those two?

[Broomhall]

.....however....is there ANY explanation as to why Jackson beat Herol? Other than he hit him once too hard?

More important question. For the Benn supporters... IF Herol had never fought Jackson...who would you favor in this threads hypothetical?

In fact...if Herol would never have fought Jackson who would you favor in that fight...with no history to go on?

I'm taking a chance and favoring Graham....but all it takes is that "Jackson moment" and it's Deja Vu all over again with Benn.

Benn isnt close to Jackson either as a puncher or a boxer.

Seriously? You think Benn is nowhere near Jackson's caliber? How would you rate McLellan in a round robin affair with those two?

When Mclellan fought Benn he was dead at the weight. I I think Mclellan Ko'd Jackson twice.

[SamWise72]

Jackson is a level above as a one punch hitter, in the mix for biggest puncher ever at two weights (though again, if he doesn't fight Herol, do we rate him as high?). Benn the better all rounder.

Herol says he got caught because the corner told him to stay away, but he thought he could finish it. Herol fought lots of other punchers, and there was no sign of a whiskers problem.

[Syntax Error]

Graham on points unanimously.

Sugar Boy Malinga comfortably outboxed Benn twice (he was robbed the first time), so that leads me to believe that Herol might have embarrassed him.

Saying, I can also see Benn connecting & putting him to sleep, although I'm only saying that because of the one time Julian Jackson did it.

[Datsue]

Jackson... in the mix for biggest puncher ever at two weights (though again, if he doesn't fight Herol, do we rate him as high?).

I bloody do, Graham fight or no Graham fight. The In-Chul Baek, Norris, Milton, Cardamone & Drayton KO's make him look like a cartoon character, each time he catches a bloke with what looks like a half-swipe they freeze & plummet vibrating to the floor. It was like there was some sort of shock device in his gloves, their legs just went away; I've never seen a puncher leave that many fellas convulsing on the floor like that from what looked reasonably innocous shots.

When he did load one up & hit a guy fully flush I always thought they were actually gonna die. You could tell that they did not go over because he was naturally three divisions bigger & they were overpowered & outstrengthed (he was basically a natural light-middle, imo), but were knocked in most cases literally off their feet.

Flattening Graham is a massive feat & a fantastic achievement no-one else came close to & the manner of it was truly horrifying; but he did that to loads of guys. I don't really remember (despite his habit of being bounced off the deck) anyone decapitating multiple world champion Terry Norris in a couple of rounds & leaving him looking like someone had dropped an aircraft carrier on him, either.

I realise you are not questioning his credentials as an awesome hitter per se but I do think he was an awesome hitter without flattening Graham, is all I'm trying to get at mate.

[evrenb]

Jackson... in the mix for biggest puncher ever at two weights (though again, if he doesn't fight Herol, do we rate him as high?).

I bloody do, Graham fight or no Graham fight. The In-Chul Baek, Norris, Milton, Cardamone & Drayton KO's make him look like a cartoon character, each time he catches a bloke with what looks like a half-swipe they freeze & plummet vibrating to the floor. It was like there was some sort of shock device in his gloves, their legs just went away; I've never seen a puncher leave that many fellas convulsing on the floor like that from what looked reasonably innocous shots.

When he did load one up & hit a guy fully flush I always thought they were actually gonna die. You could tell that they did not go over because he was naturally three divisions bigger & they were overpowered & outstrengthed (he was basically a natural light-middle, imo), but were knocked in most cases literally off their feet.

Flattening Graham is a massive feat & a fantastic achievement no-one else came close to & the manner of it was truly horrifying; but he did that to loads of guys. I don't really remember (despite his habit of being bounced off the deck) anyone decapitating multiple world champion Terry Norris in a couple of rounds & leaving him looking like someone had dropped an aircraft carrier on him, either.

I realise you are not questioning his credentials as an awesome hitter per se but I do think he was an awesome hitter without flattening Graham, is all I'm trying to get at mate.

I agree with this. . . Jackson is the hardest puncher I have ever seen.

[Counter-puncher]

He even hit hard enough to get McCallums attention. Which makes Mikes chin, what? Whatever is beyond cosmic i guess, cos Jackson landed flush'n'clean'n fully-leveraged, and...Mikes legs dipped a lil bit. I think he may have blinked once, too....



nice point that Jackson was doing it on pure woden-given power, too, rather than being a big huge beast at either weight he fought at.

[cfang]

This is my era I guess and saw a lot of these two. I'm going Benn all day here. There's always a lot of could haves and should haves with graham but the truth is, he had his chances and didn't take them, Benn did. I'd say Benn behind on pts but too tough and catches graham eventually for a late stoppage.

[evrenb]

This is my era I guess and saw a lot of these two. I'm going Benn all day here. There's always a lot of could haves and should haves with graham but the truth is, he had his chances and didn't take them, Benn did. I'd say Benn behind on pts but too tough and catches graham eventually for a late stoppage.

Ain't that the truth!

[Bodyshot3]

Ain't that the truth!

@evenrb...ditto for me as well.

Benn would have got messed around for a good few rounds but at some point he catches-up and makes the scorecards redundant. Graham was quality; but a focussed Benn came with serious needle and intent, ring speed and power. He was a cut above Rod Douglas and Mark Kaylor and I don't see a scenario panning out where he gets beaten-up like that by Herol.....unless the true red mist descended like it did against Watson.

Nigel's pure aggression was both a blessing and a curse; too much of it blew winnable fights against Watson and the first Eubank fight. But when he got it right it took Barkley to pieces, saw of the G-Man and blew Galvano out of the water in Italy.

[Arbachakov]

Benn wouldn't have beat McCallum or Kalambay either, and would have been no better than even money with jackson.

in all honesty Graham had much tougher opponents than Benn did when it came to his world title challenges.Benn took on a past prime Doug Dewitt for his WBO belt and the mediocre Galvano at supermiddle.Graham could have had title runs too given that sort of foe.

Kalambay was the daddy of the European middleweights from 87-92 and Benn was steered well clear of him(as was Eubank).Opting for the safe WBO route instead of a traditional Euro title route, as they would need to have gone through him to get a shot.

[Counter-puncher]

Kalambay as i am sure i/we have said before would have toyed with eubank

[Controversial]

Benn never had the one punch power of Jackson. He could bang alright but Jackson is one of the hardest one punch hitters ever. As others have said he literally flattened guys and left them twitching on the canvas. Graham was comfortably outboxing Jackson but got hit flush and lights out. I just couldn't see Benn doing the same.

[misterpunch]

This is my era I guess and saw a lot of these two. I'm going Benn all day here. There's always a lot of could haves and should haves with graham but the truth is, he had his chances and didn't take them, Benn did. I'd say Benn behind on pts but too tough and catches graham eventually for a late stoppage.

it seems to me you are merely putting nigel in jackson's boots and expecting the same result. I cant see that happening - nigel might, just might catch graham but that doesn't knock him out in my opinion.

[misterpunch]

Benn would have got messed around for a good few rounds but at some point he catches-up and makes the scorecards redundant. Graham was quality; but a focussed Benn came with serious needle and intent, ring speed and power. He was a cut above Rod Douglas and Mark Kaylor and I don't see a scenario panning out where he gets beaten-up like that by Herol.....unless the true red mist descended like it did against Watson.

Nigel's pure aggression was both a blessing and a curse; too much of it blew winnable fights against Watson and the first Eubank fight. But when he got it right it took Barkley to pieces, saw of the G-Man and blew Galvano out of the water in Italy.[/quote]

red mist? the only red mist nigel saw that night was the blood in his eyes caused by a severe boxing lesson he was given
by Michael Watson esquire. AND herol graham hit with just as much serious intent as MW - maybe more

graham UD

[SamWise72]

Benn got and took his chance against Willie DeWitt. Graham got and very nearly took his against Mike McCallum. I get why people love Benn, but he never in his career beat a world class slick boxer.

[evrenb]

He beat Chris Eubank - just wasn't give the decision

[SamWise72]

Evrenb, some people will say that about Herol against McCallum. Herol has a rep for being chinny amongst people who only saw the Jackson fight; he was hit with the best shot that the hardest punching middle of all time landed in his career. Herol would have beaten the Watson who beat Benn. He'd have beaten DeWitt. He'd have beaten Nardiello, and Barkley. It's hard to see him losing to Eubank. Would Benn have beaten McCallum? No, it wouldn't have been close. Jackson? Maybe, more his mind of fight. Brewer? Tough fight at that stage. The fights I hold against Graham are the Kalambay fights.

[Datsue]

The fights I hold against Graham are the Kalambay fights.

Really mate? But Kalambay was a handful for anyone not named Michael Nunn, surely?

It's been years since I saw 'em, & I watched the second one live (on TV mind), I'll have to look them up again.

[Controversial]

The fights I hold against Graham are the Kalambay fights.

Kalambay was a quality operator, why hold that against Graham? Kalambay beat Mike McCallum, Steve Collins, Iran Barklay,'Doug Dewitt and Robbie Sims and he wasnt afraid to travel to his opponents backyard.

[SamWise72]

I'm not saying Kalambay wasn't good; he was. It's more McCallum, ATG, and Herol only lost due to a point deduction. Jackson; knocked out, but by maybe the hardest hitting middle of all time whilst on the verge of a dominant win. Grant, he just didn't want to be there, and Brewer he was plain old, and still came closed. Kalambay he was in his prime, up against a tricky customer, and failed to adapt. Hard to make an excuse for it.

[Switch hitter]

The fights I hold against Graham are the Kalambay fights.

Kalambay was a quality operator, why hold that against Graham? Kalambay beat Mike McCallum, Steve Collins, Iran Barklay,'Doug Dewitt and Robbie Sims and he wasnt afraid to travel to his opponents backyard.

The second fight Herol won....but been in Italy....