Broner v Khan

[Crease]

Great?

Certainly. Broner is an exceptionally gifted fighter. And he was seen as the "next big thing" before his loss. As I've already said, losing a single fight doesn't make you a bum all-of-a-sudden. Broner is still a young guy (25) he sitill has a lot to offer the sport of boxing. He'll win moe fights and collect even more World Titles.

The guy is a class act, the only question I would have is if he bring his "A Game" to the Welterweight division, or is he better at Lightweight and Light Welter.

I don't think many people thought that at all.

Speak for yourself sir, I had this exact conversation yesterday with a good friend of mine, and he too predicted that the fight against Brook wouldn't happen and we both feared that it would be a fight against some bum that he would win handily.
This fight against Broner is much, much more meaningful.

[Crease]

And let's face it, I think that a lot of us were expecting him to take a stay-active fight against a minor opponent like David Avanesyan, Johan Perez or Silverio Ortiz. Someone who wouldn't prove too much of a threat against him.

I don't think many people thought that at all.

I would also point out that in recent times we've said a lot of good, highly ranked, English fighters meeting opponents who didnt deserve to share the ring with them...
Look at grooves vs Doughin, look at DeGale vs Periban.

Looking at those fights they are mismatches. And essentially they were only stay active fights. Why should be surprised to see another top English boxer fighting another lower ranked opponent?

[Horse]

I would also point out that in recent times we've said a lot of good, highly ranked, English fighters meeting opponents who didnt deserve to share the ring with them...
Look at grooves vs Doughin, look at DeGale vs Periban.

Looking at those fights they are mismatches. And essentially they were only stay active fights. Why should be surprised to see another top English boxer fighting another lower ranked opponent?

DeGale vs Periban was a good level fight for DeGale. It is one of his best wins.

Groves was coming in at a month's notice to try to help save a pathetically weak Hearn PPV.

Your examples of possible Khan opponents were unrealistically rubbish.

Broner is a realistically rubbish opponent for Khan. He is well known, but vastly overrated and not very good.

[palooka]

Broner is a known quantity in the US and someone the American television executives know and are willing to work with. Really, Khan has a team around him and have an idea of what he wants to do with the rest of his career. Khan has beat some good fighters and boxes, win or lose in an exciting style. Floyd or Manny are the top of the pile and it shows real ambition to plot a course to one of those two.

[Crease]

DeGale vs Periban was a good level fight for DeGale. It is one of his best wins.

Groves was coming in at a month's notice to try to help save a pathetically weak Hearn PPV.

Your examples of possible Khan opponents were unrealistically rubbish.

Broner is a realistically rubbish opponent for Khan. He is well known, but vastly overrated and not very good.

If we are to assume that your statement about DEGale is correct, then it is a very sad indictment of him as a fighter, because Periban will NEVER win a world title in any weight division, the guy just isn't that good.

As for Groves he came out himself and said that it was an unnecessary fight for him, but that EDdie had wanted to keep him busy, I can post the YouTube video if you like.

As for those alternative opponents that I mentioned, allow those guys are ranked in the top 30 of the division in r thereabouts, so those fights wouldn't be that outlandish, even though they would be disappointing.

[Horse]

If we are to assume that your statement about DEGale is correct, then it is a very sad indictment of him as a fighter, because Periban will NEVER win a world title in any weight division, the guy just isn't that good.

No, it isn't a sad indictment of DeGale as a fighter. DeGale is a fighter on the way up and it is not realistic for him to have fought multiple top 10 world ranked fighters at this stage in his career.

Periban was in the world top 20 and was a credible opponent for DeGale.

As for Groves he came out himself and said that it was an unnecessary fight for him, but that EDdie had wanted to keep him busy, I can post the YouTube video if you like.

That doesn't contradict my point.

As for those alternative opponents that I mentioned, allow those guys are ranked in the top 30 of the division in r thereabouts, so those fights wouldn't be that outlandish, even though they would be disappointing.

They would be utterly pathetic opponents.

[Crease]

No, it isn't a sad indictment of DeGale as a fighter. DeGale is a fighter on the way up and it is not realistic for him to have fought multiple top 10 world ranked fighters at this stage in his career.

What are you even talking about? Let me inform you of some facts here:

First off, DeGale isn't exactly a young kid, he's 29. Compare that to other British fighters who are World Champions at a younger age.

Secondly. DeGale's next fight will be for a World Title... Do you really think it's so outlandish to expect him to have met some top 10 fighters in his division before now. As of the moment, the only one that he has met was Groves, in a fight that he lost.

Periban was in the world top 20 and was a credible opponent for DeGale.

And yet he's definitely not a top 10er. Periban is currently ranked 25th. As for DeGale's other wins before that fight - Gonzales is currently ranked 18th, Khatchikian is currently ranked 90th and Dyah Davis is currently ranked 38th...

It's hardly earth-shattering stuff is it? Especially from a guy who "won a gold medal for my country" - as he often states.

Groves was coming in at a month's notice to try to help save a pathetically weak Hearn PPV.

So George saved the day, then? That's an absurd statement to make. If George realistically has World Title ambitions, then that win over Douglin (currently ranked 45th) is practically meaningless.
And here's the video where he basically says that himself of his last outing: (fast forward to 2:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAoFO73o6zY

And a quote:
"It showed that I dealt with a southpaw again, which isn't easy. Happy with the result. So we'll go back and study it, we always want to improve, of course. But again, it was an unnecessary fight because there was a lot at stake. We wanted to take that risk, rounds banked and we'll go all guns blazing for a World Title shot"

Realistically there were (and still are) other, more significant fights out there for Groves which would give him greater recognition and exposure.

They would be utterly pathetic opponents.

Do you think so? And how do they differ from the opponents that other talented British fighters (with no World Titles) have been facing?

I have already named and ranked DeGale's recent opponents, now let's look as Groves:
Douglin (currently ranked 45th)
Rebrasse (currently ranked 22nd)
Alcoba (currently ranked 75th)

Or I could point out Calum Smith's list of victims, and they too would not include a fighter anywhere near the top 10. And yet you criticise Khan for challenging and defeating former World Champions.

[Horse]

What are you even talking about? Let me inform you of some facts here:

First off, DeGale isn't exactly a young kid, he's 29. Compare that to other British fighters who are World Champions at a younger age.

Secondly. DeGale's next fight will be for a World Title... Do you really think it's so outlandish to expect him to have met some top 10 fighters in his division before now. As of the moment, the only one that he has met was Groves, in a fight that he lost.

How many British fighters in the last decade had 2 or more wins over world top 10 ranked fighters before they fought for a world title?

And yet he's definitely not a top 10er. Periban is currently ranked 25th. As for DeGale's other wins before that fight - Gonzales is currently ranked 18th, Khatchikian is currently ranked 90th and Dyah Davis is currently ranked 38th...

It's hardly earth-shattering stuff is it? Especially from a guy who "won a gold medal for my country" - as he often states.

So what is your point? You don't seem to know what you are arguing for.

So George saved the day, then? That's an absurd statement to make. If George realistically has World Title ambitions, then that win over Douglin (currently ranked 45th) is practically meaningless.
And here's the video where he basically says that himself of his last outing: (fast forward to 2:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAoFO73o6zY

And a quote:
"It showed that I dealt with a southpaw again, which isn't easy. Happy with the result. So we'll go back and study it, we always want to improve, of course. But again, it was an unnecessary fight because there was a lot at stake. We wanted to take that risk, rounds banked and we'll go all guns blazing for a World Title shot"

Realistically there were (and still are) other, more significant fights out there for Groves which would give him greater recognition and exposure.

Again: what is your point? You are waffling on about nothing.

Do you think so? And how do they differ from the opponents that other talented British fighters (with no World Titles) have been facing?

I have already named and ranked DeGale's recent opponents, now let's look as Groves:
Douglin (currently ranked 45th)
Rebrasse (currently ranked 22nd)
Alcoba (currently ranked 75th)

Or I could point out Calum Smith's list of victims, and they too would not include a fighter anywhere near the top 10. And yet you criticise Khan for challenging and defeating former World Champions.

Khan is far more experienced than those fighters and I hold him to a higher standard.

You are seriously comparing Amir Khan to Callum Smith. Are you joking?

[Crease]

How many British fighters in the last decade had 2 or more wins over world top 10 ranked fighters before they fought for a world title?

I have no idea, and nor am I going to sit and go through all the British fighters records along with the Boxrec rankings. Undoubtedly there is a massive problem with British fighters not facing elite opponents pre-World Title shots. As I have already highlighted.

So what is your point? You don't seem to know what you are arguing for.

Is there something wrong with your sense of understanding?

Cutting it short, my point is that you were so willing to discredit Amir Khan for fighting Broner, then Algieri when he finally named his opponent. You have belittled the prospect of both of those fights on this site in various threads...

Broner is a realistically rubbish opponent for Khan. He is well known, but vastly overrated and not very good.

Would a marginal fan be excited by Algieri? I doubt it.

I don't see why Algieri would be more respected by fans even in America. He just got whooped badly.

Yet, when I called you on it and compared Amir's recent opponents against that of DeGale's and Groves you actually gave DeGale credit for his win:

DeGale vs Periban was a good level fight for DeGale. It is one of his best wins.

And made an excuse for Groves, trying to portray him as some sort of hero:

Groves was coming in at a month's notice to try to help save a pathetically weak Hearn PPV.

And lastly:

You are seriously comparing Amir Khan to Callum Smith. Are you joking?

I'm comparing Khan mostly to DeGale & Groves. Two guys that you seem to give praise to compared to your ridicule of Khan for not fighting Kell Brook.

I wouldn't worry about that fight, I'm sure if will happen if Kell stays active, keeps winning and defending his World Title. But I do think you have an issue with consistency. If you can't be well-balanced and impartial in your arguments how can you expect people to listen to your opinions?

[Horse]

I have no idea, and nor am I going to sit and go through all the British fighters records along with the Boxrec rankings. Undoubtedly there is a massive problem with British fighters not facing elite opponents pre-World Title shots. As I have already highlighted.

World title contenders shouldn't be expected to have fought multiple top 10 ranked fighters before getting their first world title shot.

Why should they be fighting better opposition than most world champions?

Is there something wrong with your sense of understanding?

Cutting it short, my point is that you were so willing to discredit Amir Khan for fighting Broner, then Algieri when he finally named his opponent. You have belittled the prospect of both of those fights on this site in various threads...

I'm comparing Khan mostly to DeGale & Groves. Two guys that you seem to give praise to compared to your ridicule of Khan for not fighting Kell Brook.

I wouldn't worry about that fight, I'm sure if will happen if Kell stays active, keeps winning and defending his World Title. But I do think you have an issue with consistency. If you can't be well-balanced and impartial in your arguments how can you expect people to listen to your opinions?

Khan is at a much different stage of his career than Groves and DeGale. How can anyone not get that? This is ridiculous.

I expect much more from Khan, but Groves and DeGale are likely to be fighting much better opposition than Khan is in their next fights.

[palooka]

Alfieri is at least a former 'champ' who beat a tough cookie in Provodnikov, I don't think Groves next bout will be against a former champ. I don't like the Khan bout but can understand the reasoning.

[Crease]

World title contenders shouldn't be expected to have fought multiple top 10 ranked fighters before getting their first world title shot.

Why not? It's happened numerous times throughout the sport. Admittedly, it was more common-place when they were was only one World Champion per weight division.

Why should they be fighting better opposition than most world champions?

That's an unfair statement to make, not all World Champions face minor opposition.

Khan is at a much different stage of his career than Groves and DeGale. How can anyone not get that? This is ridiculous.

I do recognise that. But their current situations are identical. All three of them are recognised top ten guys in their weight divisions, and all three of them are looking for significant fights (Khan wants Floyd or Pacman) and the other two want World Title opportunities.

I don't see how you can't recognise that?

I expect much more from Khan, but Groves and DeGale are likely to be fighting much better opposition than Khan is in their next fights.

Well, we don't know yet. It's hard to comment on whats going to happen over the next 12 months. A single loss for any of the three will knock their progression back.

[Horse]

Alfieri is at least a former 'champ' who beat a tough cookie in Provodnikov, I don't think Groves next bout will be against a former champ. I don't like the Khan bout but can understand the reasoning.

Is Groves not fighting Dirrell next?

[Crease]

Is Groves not fighting Dirrell next?

No Anthony Dirrell is defending his WBC Title against a Swedish fighter, called Badou Jack. I've never seen nor heard of him before, it's more-than-likely a voluntary defense.

[Boxerbeetle]

Is Groves not fighting Dirrell next?

No Anthony Dirrell is defending his WBC Title against a Swedish fighter, called Badou Jack. I've never seen nor heard of him before, it's more-than-likely a voluntary defense.

Didn't Badou Jack get sparked in a round by a journeyman last year? Should be nowhere near a world title shot.

[Horse]

Didn't Badou Jack get sparked in a round by a journeyman last year? Should be nowhere near a world title shot.

He only managed a draw against DeGale victim Periban as well.

[Crease]

I've just checked this Swedish guy is ranked 17th on BoxRec, frankly I can't see why, the guy hasn't even went a full 12 rounds before.

I suppose we'll just chalk it up to being yet another World Title mismatch, eh gentlemen?
:(

[dookus]

Broner is not a "great" fighter or even a gifted one. Yes, he's been gifted with fast hands, good power, the ability to throw in combinations, a solid chin, and a phenomenal ability to drain down to the lower weights, but equally he's cursed with a shitty workrate, lumbering footwork, porous defence and pretty much no sense of strategy or in-ring IQ. Barring the possibility of him catching Khan early with a big shot Khan makes a mess of him in this fight, perhaps even stops him.

I can live with this matchup if (and only if) it doesn't take Khan out of meaningful fights for too long (e.g. if Khan can line up a fight for a few months later). Stopping Broner would be a big result in the US and might piss Mayweather off enough to consider a Khan fight given Mayweather's friendship with Broner. Agree with Horse that from a purist point of view it's a fairly meaningless fight, but that isn't how this business works...