Joe Louis referred to as "undefeated" a few times in Charles fight

[BoxBuzz]

Check out YouTube, the Louis vs Charles fight.

Though Louis had been defeated by Schmeling they refer to him at least twice on the broadcast as being "undefeated".

Seems odd. UNLESS this is proof of time travel?......and we have two different and distinct pasts because someone has goofed up the entire time space continuum. If so...someone is going to have to step in and fix it.

[sweetsci]

Without re-watching the fight, I assume the announcer meant the Louis wasn't defeated as a champion before retiring and giving up the title.

[BoxBuzz]

Possible....but no context given. He could have meant Joe Louis was undefeated in the last 7 days I suppose.

I only really know one meaning of those words. And they said it twice.

But you're probably right.....he was not defeated, he retired the championship. I suppose you could say that about Ali after he both lost to, and beat Spinks, and then retired and then came back for more.


Still it's a pretty sloppy statement for all us Ezzard Charles, Max S fans to have to hear.

I think somebody better have a pretty good explanation for this when Jaclem drops by.

[Ambling Alp II]

They used to use the "undefeated" phrase years ago in different context than they do now. If a fighter retired with the title, they might say he retired undefeated, even though the fighter may have lost fight(s) before he won the title. Not sure when this went out of vogue.

[jaclem3]

...actually the schmeling fight never happened. it was a hoax, much like the non-existent moon landing. fake film, stooges in the audience....very realistic for its time. Nazis produced it.

[bollox]

Jac...errr ummm...why are you on the third version of Jaclem?

[dempseyfire]

They meant undefeated while champion. This was common to say. Not sure why Buzz is having a hard time believing it.

[Crease]

Without re-watching the fight, I assume the announcer meant the Louis wasn't defeated as a champion before retiring and giving up the title.

I would be guessing at the same thing but I've seen fights were commentators refer to the Champions as an "undefeated Champion" - meaning exactly what you said, they haven't lost as the Champ. Even if they had losses on their record before coming Champ.

So yeah, it's a pretty strange thing...

[HomicideHenry]

In the old Guinness Record books they used to list Gene Tunney along with Rocky Marciano as the only two undefeated heavyweight champions in history--- Muhammad Ali for a short time was also on that list. I suppose in the case of Tunney, they looked at him as being undefeated in the sense of being a heavyweight and retiring as heavyweight champion.

[jaclem3]

......bollox....no great mysterious reason....strictly a result of my changing email servers. the names of jaclem and jaclem2 were already taken...by me, but the computer doesn't know that...so from now on it will be jaclem3. thanks for taking an interest.....

[jaclem3]

..i see now that on must check the request for an email notification, instead of the automatic one. no wonder i haven't been getting any replies.

[BoxBuzz]

6 foot 7 foot 8 foot bunch.

Daylight come and 'e wanna go home.

[bollox]

..i see now that on must check the request for an email notification, instead of the automatic one. no wonder i haven't been getting any replies.

You're a worry young fella

[jaclem3]

yeah, bollox....a lot of times i worry if so much worrying is bad for my health..

the answers about an undefeated champion are correct. it refers to guys who still held the title when they retired....not to losses or wins during their career. an interesting example is sandy saddler. although he lost fights during his career....including a loss of his title to willie pep...in their second fight, he was the featherweight champion of the world when he had to retire because of eye injuries. i think they were from an auto accident.

[Ambling Alp II]

That was something that I could not remember. If a guy had the title, lost it, but won it back and retired with it, was he considered undefeated?
This happened with Saddler and it sounds like he was considered undefeated.

[jaclem3]

..yes...saddler was considered the undefeated champion, as he retired while holding the title. ring magazine, for one, always referred to him that way.

[jaclem3]

....i just thought of another example. when an elected official retires from office or even if he's booted out, he continues to be called by the most recent title he held. presidents are the best example. when speaking to bill clinton he is called Mr. President....both bushes are called mr. president...etc.

[bollox]

How about vice presidents...is Dan Quayle referred to as Mr Potatoe? He should be