Jack Dempsey - poor quality of opposition

[Ambling Alp II]

Just wanted to address a few points that people have discussed:

- The draws. Yes, he had 9 draws. however, look at it closely. 6 of them were in 4 round fights. We should not put much stock in that. 2 were in 6 round fights. Only one was in a 10 round fight.

-Occasionally he did fight an inexperienced fighter when he himself was experienced. So just ignore it. Don't give any credit for it. Duran and Chavez did this frequently and they never seem to get an flack for it.

-Look at some of his results in 1918 alone: KO1 Flynn, TKO6 vs Brennan, KO1 vs Fulton, KO1 vs Morris, KO2 vs Smith. Try finding other heavyweight champions that did something like that against decent competition before winning the title.

-As for comparing eras, well of course you can compare them. The farther part the eras are, the harder it gets. But it's not like it can't be done. When people say that, what they often really mean is that they don't want to pay too much attention to the older eras.

-Outside of the usual suspects (Ali, Louis, Foreman, Johnson, Frazier, Holmes, Marciano, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, Liston, Jeffries) how many heavyweights should be ahead of him? He can't be that far outside the Top 10.

[Controversial]

You look at Dempseys record and analyse it and you see it s filled with guys with few or no fights-tough guy types just out to make a few bucks.

Records weren't so easily kept in those days, just because boxrec has no fights for them doesn't mean they didn't have any. Guys often fought under false names and travelled state to state.

As an example 1940s fighter Joe Gollob has just 5 fights listed on boxrec. His name probably doesn't mean anything to most people yet a 1943 newspaper article listed his record as 138-11, named him as Canada's most well travelled fighter, boxing all around the world and he was the top contender for the Empires welterweight crown.

Comparing eras is very difficult but for sure heavyweights in that era whipped themselves into great shape hence the reason most didn't weight 250lbs. Most heavyweights of today carry 2-3 stone of dead weight. Also to be fair most of the Klitschko's opponents are hardly anything to write home about.

This taken from mapleleafwresting
.
After a somewhat non-noteworthy boxing career in the 30's the Montreal native became
a Wrestling referee and handled many big bouts at MLG, as well as in Oshawa, Kingston
and other spots around Ontario.

Also on Ancestry.com Gollobs family attribute him to having 2 fights in Canada and 11 in England. So whilst I accept that Gollob may have had over 140 fight around the world there are very few records of him either as a leading challenger for any title or for the Canadian title to vaildate this.

I know guys who fight lots in semi pro, white collar etc and I think this happened a lot on those days as well-people fighting under different names, no board supervision, no records kept-but because it is a newspaper story doesnt mean it is true either. I take the view that Doug.ie does-Dempsey great fighter, but I dont think any evidence that he would beat guys like liston, Ali, Louis, Holmes, Tyson, Marciano, Lewis etc-but again I stress this is just my opinion.

My post was only picking up on your analysis of Dempsey's record that he fought guys with zero or very few fights under their belt. Records in that era weren't so easy to compile so they look deceiving.

Gollob was just an example of one fighter whose record seems sparse on paper but he allegedly fought in numerous bouts. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. Gollobs boxrec page has a photo of him calling him a top contender to the empire title so I assume there is some truth to the fact he was a fighter with more than 5 fights under his belt.

[Broomhall]

I think you need to find a better case than Gollob. I dont believe there is any evidence that he was a contender for any title, and the picture you refer to is likley to be self promotion. I do think if Gollob was a leading contender for any title from that day he would have more fights listed on Boxrec.

Of course fighters fought under all sorts of different guises and competitions, and yes many fights were probably unrecorded in those days-but this also doesnt mean that many people didnt simply turnup on the day to make a few dollars.

[Broomhall]

I think you need to find a better case than Gollob. I dont believe there is any evidence that he was a contender for any title, and the picture you refer to is likley to be self promotion. I do think if Gollob was a leading contender for any title from that day he would have more fights listed on Boxrec. This is another link which indicates Gollobs record on Boxrec may be about right http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/t ... -a-82.html


Of course fighters fought under all sorts of different guises and competitions, and yes many fights were probably unrecorded in those days-but this also doesnt mean that many people didnt simply turnup on the day to make a few dollars.

[HomicideHenry]

This taken from mapleleafwresting
.
After a somewhat non-noteworthy boxing career in the 30's the Montreal native became
a Wrestling referee and handled many big bouts at MLG, as well as in Oshawa, Kingston
and other spots around Ontario.

Also on Ancestry.com Gollobs family attribute him to having 2 fights in Canada and 11 in England. So whilst I accept that Gollob may have had over 140 fight around the world there are very few records of him either as a leading challenger for any title or for the Canadian title to vaildate this.

I know guys who fight lots in semi pro, white collar etc and I think this happened a lot on those days as well-people fighting under different names, no board supervision, no records kept-but because it is a newspaper story doesnt mean it is true either. I take the view that Doug.ie does-Dempsey great fighter, but I dont think any evidence that he would beat guys like liston, Ali, Louis, Holmes, Tyson, Marciano, Lewis etc-but again I stress this is just my opinion.

Sort of reminds me of the career of one Abraham Hollandersky (The Newsboy) who competed in over 1,200 boxing matches and over 300 wrestling matches in his career---- yet on BoxRec the man is listed as having a handful of bouts. They say its because most were 'exhibitions', therefore dont count. Maybe an excellent example, in the passed few years on this forum, was the case of Ireland's Jem Roche---- record keeping was almost non-existant and it was believed the man actually fought Burns in his pro-debut, and some wondered how that could of happened, etc. but SteveO (at long last) produced a confirmed account of Roche's record showing he had 20 some odd bouts prior to Burns and had a dozen or so more after the fact.

Hell, every once in a great while, a fight is 'discovered' from the past of even more famous fighters. Since we're talking Dempsey, why not bring up his fight with a black heavyweight named Boston Bearcat in 1916, which wasnt discovered until recent years. Dempsey was a light-heavyweight then, and this was when he was still known in most places as Kid Blackie. In truth, who knows how many fights Dempsey actually had in his career. During that time in his life, he competed both in gloves and bare knuckle, and just off the top of his head said "maybe a hundred" such times did he fight as Kid Blackie.

I'm sure, truth be told (also) that many of the greats like Langford, Jeanette, McVey, etc. probably fought more than originally believed too---- Archie Moore, Charley Burley, etc. I am sure competed more than what's figured too. But the ones whose names appear 0-0-0 or 0-1-0, etc. in the old time records, I am most speculative about. There's some men who are not listed on BoxRec at all, but were covered in newspapers and famous court cases for prizefighting illegally in certain eras when gloves became written in stone. Hell, there's a man from my home town who KNOCKED OUT Luther McCarty named Harry Hollinger--- but because its written in a newspaper some years after the fight occured, BoxRec won't accept it.

Maybe one day I'll waste a few hours at the library, going through microfish film after microfish film until I find it, but the fact remains an awful lot of fights have been largely forgotten---- as have alot of fighters.

[DaveyMac]

This taken from mapleleafwresting
.
After a somewhat non-noteworthy boxing career in the 30's the Montreal native became
a Wrestling referee and handled many big bouts at MLG, as well as in Oshawa, Kingston
and other spots around Ontario.

Also on Ancestry.com Gollobs family attribute him to having 2 fights in Canada and 11 in England. So whilst I accept that Gollob may have had over 140 fight around the world there are very few records of him either as a leading challenger for any title or for the Canadian title to vaildate this.

I know guys who fight lots in semi pro, white collar etc and I think this happened a lot on those days as well-people fighting under different names, no board supervision, no records kept-but because it is a newspaper story doesnt mean it is true either. I take the view that Doug.ie does-Dempsey great fighter, but I dont think any evidence that he would beat guys like liston, Ali, Louis, Holmes, Tyson, Marciano, Lewis etc-but again I stress this is just my opinion.

Sort of reminds me of the career of one Abraham Hollandersky (The Newsboy) who competed in over 1,200 boxing matches and over 300 wrestling matches in his career---- yet on BoxRec the man is listed as having a handful of bouts. They say its because most were 'exhibitions', therefore dont count. Maybe an excellent example, in the passed few years on this forum, was the case of Ireland's Jem Roche---- record keeping was almost non-existant and it was believed the man actually fought Burns in his pro-debut, and some wondered how that could of happened, etc. but SteveO (at long last) produced a confirmed account of Roche's record showing he had 20 some odd bouts prior to Burns and had a dozen or so more after the fact.

Hell, every once in a great while, a fight is 'discovered' from the past of even more famous fighters. Since we're talking Dempsey, why not bring up his fight with a black heavyweight named Boston Bearcat in 1916, which wasnt discovered until recent years. Dempsey was a light-heavyweight then, and this was when he was still known in most places as Kid Blackie. In truth, who knows how many fights Dempsey actually had in his career. During that time in his life, he competed both in gloves and bare knuckle, and just off the top of his head said "maybe a hundred" such times did he fight as Kid Blackie.

I'm sure, truth be told (also) that many of the greats like Langford, Jeanette, McVey, etc. probably fought more than originally believed too---- Archie Moore, Charley Burley, etc. I am sure competed more than what's figured too. But the ones whose names appear 0-0-0 or 0-1-0, etc. in the old time records, I am most speculative about. There's some men who are not listed on BoxRec at all, but were covered in newspapers and famous court cases for prizefighting illegally in certain eras when gloves became written in stone. Hell, there's a man from my home town who KNOCKED OUT Luther McCarty named Harry Hollinger--- but because its written in a newspaper some years after the fight occured, BoxRec won't accept it.

Maybe one day I'll waste a few hours at the library, going through microfish film after microfish film until I find it, but the fact remains an awful lot of fights have been largely forgotten---- as have alot of fighters.

This is factually true Henry, but it's actually what makes Boxrec great not their weakness! People are working tirelessly going through newspapers and finding fights for guys all the time. I've found whole careers for guys who were previously lost to history and I bet there are 50 editors or more who contribute more regularly than I do.

The boxrec project is bringing these fighters to life, finding their place in history. So yes there are guys who don't have all of their credit, but it's not because of Boxrec, it's Boxrec that is getting them their due place in history.

[Controversial]

I think you need to find a better case than Gollob. I dont believe there is any evidence that he was a contender for any title, and the picture you refer to is likley to be self promotion. I do think if Gollob was a leading contender for any title from that day he would have more fights listed on Boxrec.

Of course fighters fought under all sorts of different guises and competitions, and yes many fights were probably unrecorded in those days-but this also doesnt mean that many people didnt simply turnup on the day to make a few dollars.

I'm not trying to make any case for Gollob, he was just an example that sparse records can be deceiving. Who knows how many fights he really had. As I said before I'm only picking you up on your claim that just because boxrec doesn't list fights or shows someone as 0-0-0 doesn't mean they didn't have any, especially in Dempseys era.

[doug.ie]

I'm not trying to make any case for Gollob, he was just an example that sparse records can be deceiving. Who knows how many fights he really had. As I said before I'm only picking you up on your claim that just because boxrec doesn't list fights or shows someone as 0-0-0 doesn't mean they didn't have any, especially in Dempseys era.

off topic....this makes me think of george grundhoven....who fought george carpentier for the european heavyweight title in 1920.

according to todays boxrec record for him...
he had his pro debut in 1914 and lost by first round ko
he had his second pro fight in 1920 which he won by 5th round tko against a man who had won just 2 of his 9 pro bouts
then, 10 days later he fought carpentier.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

i cant find any amateur record for him.

i have read a lot about some of carpentiers fights being fixed, battling siki told anyone that would listen that theirs was...but would that explain this one too?...would boxing fans at the time not object to someone like grundhoven fighting for a prestigious title like that ?

or is it a situation like i quoted above ?

[doug.ie]

actually...now i look...it seems boxrec has taken the european title status away from the listing for their fight.
it was definetly listed as that last year.....bugged me trying to research it

the description here mentions it...boxrec did list it as a european title fight...honestly :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U8BwlTxQhs

[Broomhall]

I think you need to find a better case than Gollob. I dont believe there is any evidence that he was a contender for any title, and the picture you refer to is likley to be self promotion. I do think if Gollob was a leading contender for any title from that day he would have more fights listed on Boxrec.

Of course fighters fought under all sorts of different guises and competitions, and yes many fights were probably unrecorded in those days-but this also doesnt mean that many people didnt simply turnup on the day to make a few dollars.

I'm not trying to make any case for Gollob, he was just an example that sparse records can be deceiving. Who knows how many fights he really had. As I said before I'm only picking you up on your claim that just because boxrec doesn't list fights or shows someone as 0-0-0 doesn't mean they didn't have any, especially in Dempseys era.

And as I said I dont think Golob is such an example, you need to find a better example as actually the research indicates that Boxrec may not be too far off. He may have said he had 140 plus fights to a newspaper man but the research and evidence available does not support this. And as I said of course people may have had other fights-as they do now with the boom of white collar, MMA and semi pro unrecorded fights. I know a guy who has had 20-30 of these type of fights-but even with the the confirmed fights Demspeys career doesnt seem to me to be an outstanding one worthy of the legendary status he has been granted.

It also doesnt mean if someone had more fights than a 0 0 0 record that they were any good.

[wouter]

actually...now i look...it seems boxrec has taken the european title status away from the listing for their fight.
it was definetly listed as that last year.....bugged me trying to research it

the description here mentions it...boxrec did list it as a european title fight...honestly :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U8BwlTxQhs

The reason that it's not listed as a title fight anymore is that it was a 15 round non-title fight according to contemporary French reports.

[Cap]

I've done my share of digging in newspapers over the last twenty-odd years and I've added quite a number of contests to many different boxers' records. It's hard slogging that often amounts to detective work because some fights are barely mentioned and often the results are equally difficult to find. Boxing wasn't always a popular entertainment. In many communities it was looked down upon as immoral and even illegal. I've seen many instances where a scheduled bout is announced in a small town and the local monthly rag that is the only surviving reference makes no mention of the outcome. If the fight took place on a Saturday it often didn't get covered in the Sunday paper because of the brutal nature of the sport, or was ignored because there was no Sunday edition. So, I'm not surprised there are fighters with few bouts on record, I'm surprised there are so many listed at all.

As for Dempsey, he pretty much rescued boxing as popular entertainment. Thanks to him and Tex Rickard. You really have to know something about the early days of boxing to appreciate the sudden appearance of the Manassa Mauler. It was like Mike Tyson's explosion on the scene back in the 80's. Dempsey didn't just beat his opponents coming up, he destroyed them. In the 1920s only Babe Ruth rivalled Dempsey as a major sports icon.

Dempsey wasn't really what we like to think of as a fighting champion, but few heavyweight champs have been. Tex Rickard, the king of promoters in those days, controlled Dempsey and he searched high and low for opponents who would draw really big crowds. In the eyes of fight fans there were a few guys Dempsey should have defended against, but they just didn't have the charisma or personality to bring in the casual fans like war-hero Carpentier and caveman Firpo did. Under Rickard boxing had become big-time entertainment.

[Caractacus]

Also Heavyweight Champions back then did a lot of public exhibitions
(check out Max Baer's exhibitions after he lost the title)
whens the last public exhibition of a heavyweight champion youve seen?

[doug.ie]

Also Heavyweight Champions back then did a lot of public exhibitions
(check out Max Baer's exhibitions after he lost the title)
whens the last public exhibition of a heavyweight champion youve seen?

yes.....and seeing as you mention that...

............................


Dick Madden, young Boston heavyweight, shared Max Baer's mood for good, clean fun last night and they put on one of the most amusing travestries a Boston boxing crowd ever witnessed.

The heavyweight champion was wearing his motion picture ring costume and was eager to provide comedy. His hilarious antics had the over-flow crowd of 4,000 in hysterics all through the four round skit.

Max reeled and slipped, walked bow-legged and acted punch drunk from Madden's futile efforts to hit him. In the second round Madden became a bit serious but he desisted when Max rapped him on the jaw a few times and reminded him he was forgetting his lines.

The champion got a great kick out of his performance but his 239-pound brother Jacob, known as 'Buddy', ran into an unexpected setback. In a four round bout with the veteran Babe Hunt of Ponca City, Oklahoma., Young Baer was soundly drubbed.

(The Miami News - Jan 11, 1935)

*This was one of five exhibition bouts that Baer had in January 1935

[Caractacus]

"SM"
Steve Morgan!"

[doug.ie]

"SM"
Steve Morgan!"

[Controversial]

And as I said I dont think Golob is such an example, you need to find a better example as actually the research indicates that Boxrec may not be too far off. He may have said he had 140 plus fights to a newspaper man but the research and evidence available does not support this. And as I said of course people may have had other fights-as they do now with the boom of white collar, MMA and semi pro unrecorded fights. I know a guy who has had 20-30 of these type of fights-but even with the the confirmed fights Demspeys career doesnt seem to me to be an outstanding one worthy of the legendary status he has been granted.

It also doesnt mean if someone had more fights than a 0 0 0 record that they were any good.

Why do I need to find an example, your missing the point. Fights were not recorded well in the those days that's why it's almost impossible to prove, especially when Dempsey was about 100 years ago. So your claim that Dempsey fought guys with zero fights or a handful of fights isn't a fair argument. You only have to look at the records and queries section of this site to see active pros today contacting this site to inform them of fights they've had as they've been missed or recorded incorrectly.

[Broomhall]

I've done my share of digging in newspapers over the last twenty-odd years and I've added quite a number of contests to many different boxers' records. It's hard slogging that often amounts to detective work because some fights are barely mentioned and often the results are equally difficult to find. Boxing wasn't always a popular entertainment. In many communities it was looked down upon as immoral and even illegal. I've seen many instances where a scheduled bout is announced in a small town and the local monthly rag that is the only surviving reference makes no mention of the outcome. If the fight took place on a Saturday it often didn't get covered in the Sunday paper because of the brutal nature of the sport, or was ignored because there was no Sunday edition. So, I'm not surprised there are fighters with few bouts on record, I'm surprised there are so many listed at all.

As for Dempsey, he pretty much rescued boxing as popular entertainment. Thanks to him and Tex Rickard. You really have to know something about the early days of boxing to appreciate the sudden appearance of the Manassa Mauler. It was like Mike Tyson's explosion on the scene back in the 80's. Dempsey didn't just beat his opponents coming up, he destroyed them. In the 1920s only Babe Ruth rivalled Dempsey as a major sports icon.

Dempsey wasn't really what we like to think of as a fighting champion, but few heavyweight champs have been. Tex Rickard, the king of promoters in those days, controlled Dempsey and he searched high and low for opponents who would draw really big crowds. In the eyes of fight fans there were a few guys Dempsey should have defended against, but they just didn't have the charisma or personality to bring in the casual fans like war-hero Carpentier and caveman Firpo did. Under Rickard boxing had become big-time entertainment.

Not sure what point you are making here Cap, either he was over rated or he wasnt. You seem to be beating around the bush, also not sure about the destroying opponents on the way up as that isnt what his record seems to indicate. Yes lots of KOs, but a fair few draws, losses and pts wins and as pointed out many of those quick wins against men with little or no fighting background that we know of. Surely also he should be judged on his record as champion which as you say was not exactly a fighting champ. I think the fact that he held the title for so long without defending it says much about the unregulated nature of the sport back then.

[Cap]

He had 4 losses on his record before he lost to Tunney. This in an era when fighters didn't worry about protecting their "perfect" record. Most of the draws were in 4 round fights with guys who were there to survive and fight another day, like Willie Meehan. As others have stated repeatedly, boxrec is not complete. When you look at an opponent's record at the time they met, it doesn't include No Decisions and it doesn't include any fight that the resident historians have not found yet. Unfortunately, many of them never will surface because the source material is lost.

Dempsey fought almost every top heavyweight in the US on his way up once he started eating regularly. He wasn't called the tramp fighter for nothing. He beat them all. It was only after his Hollywood stint that he slacked off. He was a different fighter after that.

[HomicideHenry]

This reminds me of the John L. Sullivan thread I made a year or so ago, and with some difficulty tried to give a modern view of certain opponents worth--- considering very little is known (on this forum and otherwise) of the era by most modern fans. Even the more well known fighters of that era, are often diminished in value because of a lack of knowledge on them or poor record keeping.

As I noted in that thread, prior to winning the championship (American) Paddy Ryan was known as the champion of the Erie Canal, and yet we have no record that exists of who, where, and when those fights took place. Some of the men Sully defended the title against, or did 'Knockout' tour matches against, often were regional champions (whose records are also incomplete) and in a modern world would be considered a fringe contender like Andy Ruiz or Bryant Jennings.

Fourth dimensional thinking, creativity and common sense approaches surely do help give perspective to such times. In Dempsey's era--- there was something of a minor Depression under the Woodrow Wilson administration, which preceded the major Depression of the late 1920's and 30's. There were alot of men who left their homes and traveled the nation looking for jobs and steady work--- and alot of those men, in the interim, became fighters. Most of them are lost to history forever for one reason or another. Alot of the really good fighters of the time who will never be brought up in discussions became Athletic Show boxers, doing barn storm tours in little tank towns offering a dollar a round to anyone who could last.

Louis L'Amour, the famous writer most remembered for his Western novels, had deep roots in such an atmosphere. Whether Louis really did participate in 59 prize fights as his autobiography states--- will always be in question--- but we have found over time snippets of information which bolster the claims as being factual. But since these were not "sanctioned" or "legal" contests, and considered "exhibitions" or even "amateur" in the eyes of many, these fights seldom ever went down on record or in the papers. Jimmy Wilde, the legendary flyweight champion, had hundreds of such bouts before turning professional. How interesting it would of been, to of seen paper evidence with names, places, dates, weights of those fights.

Almost every town had some sort of sporting club which showcased fights back then. Most of them long forgotten, and the only evidence of them exist probably in someone's attic or basement, the pages of a centuries old newspaper or photographs turning yellow, brittle, faded and ripe with water stains and mold. Earlier I gave an example of a Dempsey fight that had been uncovered in recent years--- Boston Bearcat--- and when one does the cross reference, and reads the newspapers it states Boston Bearcat faced Sam Langford and other black heavyweights (and had quite a few wins against them), but we have yet to find these fights in newspapers. And this was a man Dempsey kayoed in one round--- yet if one took a gander at BoxRec, one would think he was a stiff and nothing more (0-4) when this man was brought to Colorado all the way from the East Coast to challenge Dempsey for a regional title. He was certainly no bum--- and considering Dempsey beat him the way that he did, its no wonder why the young Dempsey got it into his head to go all the way to New York and try his luck there.

It gives a greater insight to HOW IT REALLY WAS.

[Ambling Alp II]

He had 4 losses on his record before he lost to Tunney. This in an era when fighters didn't worry about protecting their "perfect" record. Most of the draws were in 4 round fights with guys who were there to survive and fight another day, like Willie Meehan. As others have stated repeatedly, boxrec is not complete. When you look at an opponent's record at the time they met, it doesn't include No Decisions and it doesn't include any fight that the resident historians have not found yet. Unfortunately, many of them never will surface because the source material is lost.

Dempsey fought almost every top heavyweight in the US on his way up once he started eating regularly. He wasn't called the tramp fighter for nothing. He beat them all. It was only after his Hollywood stint that he slacked off. He was a different fighter after that.

Agreed. People should not put too much stock in 4 rounds draws. That is likely a fight that is 2 rounds a piece. That is much different than a fight that is a draw after ten rounds.

In Dempsey's day, fighter fought frequently; on your way up you often would take on opponents much more experienced than yourself. Conversely, when you became experienced yourself, you may occasionally take on an opponent who was not that experienced. Fighters needed to stay busy and make a few bucks.

As for the point made earlier about fighting inexperienced fighters; Dempsey had 4 fight against inexperienced fighters when he himself was experienced.
Chavez had 4 wins over inexperienced opponents when he was very experienced himself. One of those opponents was 1-15.
Roberto Duran had 9 wins in his career after he won his first title in which he beat an opponent that had two wins or less.

[doug.ie]

[Caractacus]

But did you know that Georges Carpentier knocked out Joe Jeannette in a sparring session
when Carpentier was getting ready to fight Jack Dempsey?
I bet you didnt know that did you?

[Cap]

A lot of sportswriters have 20-20 vision after the fact. Who didn't pick Sullivan over Corbett, Jeffries over Johnson, or Johnson over Willard? Most people go with the resident champion, the safe bet. I'd be willing to bet that article quoting Greb was manufactured by the columnist to show he was tight with a famous fighter.

As for Carpentier, his best years were behind him when he finally crossed the Atlantic to meet Dempsey. His name had come up countless times just before the Great War as a possible opponent for American fighters, including Johnson and Willard. He likely peaked when he fought Jeannette and Gunboat Smith in 1914.

[Caractacus]

Jack Dempsey once told a reporter.

"Did I duck Harry Wills?
Hell,no.
They just never offered me a decent purse to fight him.
The only man I ever ducked was Ernest Hemingway.
I never ducked a fighter,just a writer."