Private Fight Film Collectors

[mikeycapp]

Hello Doug ie, I have never heard of any private screening of the Greb/Walker fight? which doesn't mean that it did not happen but I am sure if it did guys like Sal Rappa would have known of the existence of such a film through his affiliation with Jimmy Jacobs (Who I am confident would have purchased the film for the Big Fights Library). Regarding Tony Fosco's Fight Film Collection it is for sale! I am told that his wife is asking 250,000 Dollars for the entire collection. Maybe they had a shot of getting that about 30 years ago when rare fight films were a commodity however today I think if they can sell it between 50 and 100,000 they can consider themselves lucky. Mikey Capp

[evrenb]

Hello Doug ie, I have never heard of any private screening of the Greb/Walker fight? which doesn't mean that it did not happen but I am sure if it did guys like Sal Rappa would have known of the existence of such a film through his affiliation with Jimmy Jacobs (Who I am confident would have purchased the film for the Big Fights Library). Regarding Tony Fosco's Fight Film Collection it is for sale! I am told that his wife is asking 250,000 Dollars for the entire collection. Maybe they had a shot of getting that about 30 years ago when rare fight films were a commodity however today I think if they can sell it between 50 and 100,000 they can consider themselves lucky. Mikey Capp

Hi

Is Sal still going? I traded with him back in the 1990's. He had some really mint stuff back then when few did.

In regards to Tony ; I have about a thousand of his old emails from back in the day. He really did have some rare stuff which no one even mentions now. His Kinescope collection was great - I have lists of all his kinescopes. Is Kathryn advertising the films? Does she list what the films are? Any links?

eb

[mikeycapp]

Hello Evren,

I am not sure how to get in contact with Fosco's family I heard this through another party, however I can bet they are at the same address which is where interested parties with the money to barter for the collection can probably get a list of what Fosco had. Supposedly they are asking $250,000 for the entire collection and I am told they will not sell piece meal it is the entire collection or nothing!
Sincerely

Mikey Capp

[evrenb]

Hello Evren,

I am not sure how to get in contact with Fosco's family I heard this through another party, however I can bet they are at the same address which is where interested parties with the money to barter for the collection can probably get a list of what Fosco had. Supposedly they are asking $250,000 for the entire collection and I am told they will not sell peace meal it is the entire collection or nothing!
Sincerely

Mikey Capp

Thanks Mikey

What's the news with Sal??

Evren

[mikeycapp]

Hello Evren,

I haven't spoken to Sal in a long time maybe 15 years however a friend of mine who knows him tells me that he has the early onset of Alzheimer Disease. I am not sure if he trades anymore?

Sincerely

Mikey Capp

[mikeycapp]

Hello Evren,

I am not sure how to get in contact with Fosco's family I heard this through another party, however I can bet they are at the same address which is where interested parties with the money to barter for the collection can probably get a list of what Fosco had. Supposedly they are asking $250,000 for the entire collection and I am told they will not sell piece meal it is the entire collection or nothing!
Sincerely

Mikey Capp

[davbai]

on you tube there is a copy of Robinson v Angott also the is a copy of robinson v tommy bell

I will look for those as well as the ones demspeyfire mentioned.

Thanks guys!

The guy I think who posted the Robinson rarities on you tube , I think he is the guy from sweetfights.com because on his site you can buy discs with all the rare early Robinson fights on them. I don't know about the quality as it seems that many of these rarities have been filmed from the crowd by cine camera so I think we are going to have to make do with these clips, but they are better than none . Some time ago , last year I think, someone posted a clip on you tube and it said Zale vs Graziano 1.i think it was no1 .definitely not no3 because we've all seen that i'm sure . Anyway it was filmed from well away from the ring and was very jumpy as if the camera user kept starting and stopping the film like bad editing.You could just about make out the fighters and I think it was ZALE-GRAZIANO but I can not be sure .As I said the film was poor and there was a section where the two traded punches and one was wobbled and then the film jumped and the fight was finished and the loop was starting again.The quality film and camera work was so poor I did not even bother downloading it so I can't show it to you.But I have not noticed it posted again. Does any one remember this or have any info on the clip. But I have to admit it was rubbish and thats why I did not bother to download it. Dave.

[evrenb]

on you tube there is a copy of Robinson v Angott also the is a copy of robinson v tommy bell

I will look for those as well as the ones demspeyfire mentioned.

Thanks guys!

The guy I think who posted the Robinson rarities on you tube , I think he is the guy from sweetfights.com because on his site you can buy discs with all the rare early Robinson fights on them. I don't know about the quality as it seems that many of these rarities have been filmed from the crowd by cine camera so I think we are going to have to make do with these clips, but they are better than none . Some time ago , last year I think, someone posted a clip on you tube and it said Zale vs Graziano 1.i think it was no1 .definitely not no3 because we've all seen that i'm sure . Anyway it was filmed from well away from the ring and was very jumpy as if the camera user kept starting and stopping the film like bad editing.You could just about make out the fighters and I think it was ZALE-GRAZIANO but I can not be sure .As I said the film was poor and there was a section where the two traded punches and one was wobbled and then the film jumped and the fight was finished and the loop was starting again.The quality film and camera work was so poor I did not even bother downloading it so I can't show it to you.But I have not noticed it posted again. Does any one remember this or have any info on the clip. But I have to admit it was rubbish and thats why I did not bother to download it. Dave.

It still is on Youtube.
What is a rare fight? In this day and age where things can be duplicated instantaneously, burned from the web or uploaded onto Youtube. The only things that are rare are fights that are not released, most likely on 16mm. Once a fight is on youtube and people write 'rare' I dont understand that? Anyone can download it??

I feel rare these days are older fights in Mint Quality.

[BareknuckleMike]

was that 1978 private showing of greb v walker (apparently a very bad quality copy) fiction ? (was the guys name craig long who reported seeing it ? )

The 1899 Jeffries vs Tom Sharkey title bout was supposedly filmed in exquisite quality at the time (Jeff himself commented on the misery caused by the Westinghouse lights installed above the ring - this being the first indoor title fight filmed, there were some technical issues) but hasn't been exhibited since the 1950s IIRC. The version we're all familiar with is a crummy copy of a copy of a copy filmed with a smuggled camera. I'd love to see the original if it was as clear as the early reports claimed, even the shaky fuzzy footage we have shows some fearsome brutality.

But for me the #1 Holy Grail is one of the Great Greb fights, either Tunney II or Mickey Walker, both of which we know were filmed.

[pound per pound]

was that 1978 private showing of greb v walker (apparently a very bad quality copy) fiction ? (was the guys name craig long who reported seeing it ? )

The 1899 Jeffries vs Tom Sharkey title bout was supposedly filmed in exquisite quality at the time (Jeff himself commented on the misery caused by the Westinghouse lights installed above the ring - this being the first indoor title fight filmed, there were some technical issues) but hasn't been exhibited since the 1950s IIRC. The version we're all familiar with is a crummy copy of a copy of a copy filmed with a smuggled camera. I'd love to see the original if it was as clear as the early reports claimed, even the shaky fuzzy footage we have shows some fearsome brutality.

But for me the #1 Holy Grail is one of the Great Greb fights, either Tunney II or Mickey Walker, both of which we know were filmed.

The shame of it is the real film was crystal clear, and mentioned as such. Historians from the 1900's to 1950's mention Jeffries vs Sharkey 2 this was the best filmed heavyweight championship fight of all time.

[beaujack]

Harry Greb would be gold standard, so would more Robinson from his welter years. Imagine if Ray Robinson-Henry Armstrong turned up! Not a classic fight, but a meeting of greats.

I have Robinson vs Armstrong as an exhibition match. The main trouble with private film collectors is some of them violated no trade clauses to others to obtain more films. As such obtaining new and rare films requires a great deal of trust. Once a rare film goes to the web, its value becomes next to nothing.

Equally frustrating is when collectors say this film does not exist, when they know it does. For example some new darn well Jeanette vs Langford was on film, but some of those who knew denied it existed because they owned it and were told to keep their mouths shut.

I once told a collector, why not strike a deal with the boxing hall of fame and have them build a small theater where hard core fans pass through a metal detector so hard core fans can pay money to enjoy the history. His reply, why should I trust the hall of fame with my films.

UGH.

Sam Wise, I am not a film collector but I have a copy from the original training film of the immortal Harry Greb, found in a University archive
years ago. And though I have no film of the Ray Robinson/ Henry Armstrong fight at the old MSG. I was at ringside seeing the rising Ray Robinson
virtually "carry' his idol the fading Henry Armstrong...And I along with my dad saw the welterweight edition ringside, of the best fighter I ever saw Ray Robinson...

[prepasur]

Hey i started a thread but it haven't got any reply so i think maybe this is the place to comment it, i was watching a documentary on youtube about the african-american boxing scene and i found myself surprised that i saw footage of the Ezzard Charles vs Lloyd Marshall fight in high quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGf-s8wjpuM

In the minute 38:53 of the video the fight is in a very watchable quality, you can clearly see the moves that both fighters are pulling off.

Does anyone known if it is aviable on the web for buying it or ESPN ever transmited this fights or will? is really a shame that this fight in this quality havent been released or in public access but at least we have a small seconds to watch it.

[evrenb]

Hey i started a thread but it haven't got any reply so i think maybe this is the place to comment it, i was watching a documentary on youtube about the african-american boxing scene and i found myself surprised that i saw footage of the Ezzard Charles vs Lloyd Marshall fight in high quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGf-s8wjpuM

In the minute 38:53 of the video the fight is in a very watchable quality, you can clearly see the moves that both fighters are pulling off.

Does anyone known if it is aviable on the web for buying it or ESPN ever transmited this fights or will? is really a shame that this fight in this quality havent been released or in public access but at least we have a small seconds to watch it.

Hi

Some of the older fights have been digitally enhanced at ESPN to sharpen the picture. The copy I have of this is only marginally less in quality. However sometimes when you view the fights loaded up on the web on the big screen they do not look as sharp. You can do a test on your own copy - play it via your laptop and you will be surprised how the quality looks better. You could contact Steve Lott and see if he will do a copy for you. Great fighter Charles....

[prepasur]

Hey i started a thread but it haven't got any reply so i think maybe this is the place to comment it, i was watching a documentary on youtube about the african-american boxing scene and i found myself surprised that i saw footage of the Ezzard Charles vs Lloyd Marshall fight in high quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGf-s8wjpuM

In the minute 38:53 of the video the fight is in a very watchable quality, you can clearly see the moves that both fighters are pulling off.

Does anyone known if it is aviable on the web for buying it or ESPN ever transmited this fights or will? is really a shame that this fight in this quality havent been released or in public access but at least we have a small seconds to watch it.

Hi

Some of the older fights have been digitally enhanced at ESPN to sharpen the picture. The copy I have of this is only marginally less in quality. However sometimes when you view the fights loaded up on the web on the big screen they do not look as sharp. You can do a test on your own copy - play it via your laptop and you will be surprised how the quality looks better. You could contact Steve Lott and see if he will do a copy for you. Great fighter Charles....

Hi thanks for the reply

So you're are saying that i can ask Steve Lott to see if he can do a copy in good quality of this fight?

How can i contact him? Thanks in advance

Also indeed Ezzard Charles is great, my favourite fighter also i try to box a lot like him when i train

[evrenb]

Hi

Try and face book message him. I have his email somewhere if you cant find.

evren

[prepasur]

Hi

Try and face book message him. I have his email somewhere if you cant find.

evren

Thanks men i sent him a private message on facebook, now just wait for his reply.

I dont know him but i addressed him as Mr., is he a light individual or an "old school yes sir" tipe of guy?

also i have seen his channel on youtube and he already has uploaded the Ezzard Charles vs Joe Walcott 2 highlights in great quality.

[Cap]

It'd be great to see Tom Sharkey fighting Jeffries or Gus Ruhlin. Another guy I'd like to see fight on film is Gunboat Smith. I read somewhere that his fight with Georges Carpentier was filmed. I've seen stills. Also curious to actually see Harry Greb fight. I've read and heard so many conflicting stories about his style. Considering how popular he was in his day I'm amazed there isn't one single film of him in action.

When I win the lottery I'll hire a film maker and computer programmer to take old fight films and super-enhance them so they look like new.

[ral]

Is there any old Prelim fights from N.Y. in the 40's and also any of Johnny Walker, maybe the one with Fritize Zivic?

Just checking

Thanks
ral

[klompton]

It'd be great to see Tom Sharkey fighting Jeffries or Gus Ruhlin. Another guy I'd like to see fight on film is Gunboat Smith. I read somewhere that his fight with Georges Carpentier was filmed. I've seen stills. Also curious to actually see Harry Greb fight. I've read and heard so many conflicting stories about his style. Considering how popular he was in his day I'm amazed there isn't one single film of him in action.

When I win the lottery I'll hire a film maker and computer programmer to take old fight films and super-enhance them so they look like new.

Ive got two seperate clips of Gunboat Smith sparring. One is him against Jack Johnson. He doesnt look good at all. He fights kind of like Jess Willard. Gangly, awkward, and old fashioned. This is a photo taken of the same sparring session I have on film:

[Cap]

It'd be great to see Tom Sharkey fighting Jeffries or Gus Ruhlin. Another guy I'd like to see fight on film is Gunboat Smith. I read somewhere that his fight with Georges Carpentier was filmed. I've seen stills. Also curious to actually see Harry Greb fight. I've read and heard so many conflicting stories about his style. Considering how popular he was in his day I'm amazed there isn't one single film of him in action.

When I win the lottery I'll hire a film maker and computer programmer to take old fight films and super-enhance them so they look like new.

Ive got two seperate clips of Gunboat Smith sparring. One is him against Jack Johnson. He doesnt look good at all. He fights kind of like Jess Willard. Gangly, awkward, and old fashioned. This is a photo taken of the same sparring session I have on film:

....and he was considered one of the best heavyweights of that period. [Funny. His feet don't seem so big. So much for the stories of the reason behind his nickname.]

[Ade L]

In the modern era I've heard that one of Lennox Lewis's pro fights is ultra rare.....can't remember which one it is though (probably the one missing from career DVD sets LOL)

[davbai]

was that 1978 private showing of greb v walker (apparently a very bad quality copy) fiction ? (was the guys name craig long who reported seeing it ? )

The 1899 Jeffries vs Tom Sharkey title bout was supposedly filmed in exquisite quality at the time (Jeff himself commented on the misery caused by the Westinghouse lights installed above the ring - this being the first indoor title fight filmed, there were some technical issues) but hasn't been exhibited since the 1950s IIRC. The version we're all familiar with is a crummy copy of a copy of a copy filmed with a smuggled camera. I'd love to see the original if it was as clear as the early reports claimed, even the shaky fuzzy footage we have shows some fearsome brutality.

But for me the #1 Holy Grail is one of the Great Greb fights, either Tunney II or Mickey Walker, both of which we know were filmed.

I agree .The isn't any films i can think of which i would rank higher in inportance ,to find, than the Greb fights. They are indeed how you describe them as the holy grail. i watched the footage of greb and walker signing for the fight and then the light training and some guy said after it ended ``where's the fight then'' I said hoarded and hidden away and not for our eyes to see. this may seem strange to say but maybe its an old old fella with not a lot of years on the clockand maybe it will be inherited and sold off. Then sometime ( fingers crossed we might see its survival and digitised before its too late for us'').The guy who ran harrygreb.com used to say on his site `` keep looking time is runnng out. Lets hope not ,it'll anger me if i found out someone definately had a good copy not one of those filmed from way back, but beggers can't be chosers.Anyway my typing is getting worse i'm going to bed . GOOD LUCK COMRADES .Dave

[davbai]

was that 1978 private showing of greb v walker (apparently a very bad quality copy) fiction ? (was the guys name craig long who reported seeing it ? )

The 1899 Jeffries vs Tom Sharkey title bout was supposedly filmed in exquisite quality at the time (Jeff himself commented on the misery caused by the Westinghouse lights installed above the ring - this being the first indoor title fight filmed, there were some technical issues) but hasn't been exhibited since the 1950s IIRC. The version we're all familiar with is a crummy copy of a copy of a copy filmed with a smuggled camera. I'd love to see the original if it was as clear as the early reports claimed, even the shaky fuzzy footage we have shows some fearsome brutality.

But for me the #1 Holy Grail is one of the Great Greb fights, either Tunney II or Mickey Walker, both of which we know were filmed.

I agree .The isn't any films i can think of which i would rank higher in inportance ,to find, than the Greb fights. They are indeed how you describe them as the holy grail. i watched the footage of greb and walker signing for the fight and then the light training and some guy said after it ended ``where's the fight then'' I said hoarded and hidden away and not for our eyes to see. this may seem strange to say but maybe its an old old fella with not a lot of years on the clockand maybe it will be inherited and sold off. Then sometime ( fingers crossed we might see its survival and digitised before its too late for us'').The guy who ran harrygreb.com used to say on his site `` keep looking time is runnng out. Lets hope not ,it'll anger me if i found out someone definately had a good copy not one of those filmed from way back, but beggers can't be chosers.Anyway my typing is getting worse i'm going to bed . GOOD LUCK COMRADES .Dave

[Cap]

Wonder if it had anything to do with Greb or his manager just asking for too much geld for film rights?

[Caractacus]

You know it just occured to me.
Its been just about 30 years since the book home video "boom".
Remember back around 1984-1985 when video rental stores
sprang up all over your town and city?
Man,they were everywhere(some im sure were front covers for crime organizations).


How did you purchase your boxing video from?In the back of a magazine?

So who were the main collectors/sellers back then?
How old are they now?
What became of their collections?

I remember when I first starting collecting some boxing videos,
off of Ebay around the late 1990's.
I would bid on a video and get something were the screen would turn blue
every two seconds and I would have to keep switching the channel
just trying to watch it and my wrist got so tired.
BTW the first VHS boxing video I bought was George Foreman vrs the Toronto Five.

BTW Do you know how much an official video-tape of a Bruce Lee movie like The Chinese Connection or Fists of Fury cost back in 1984?
about 80 friggin dollars!