IBHOF Class 2006

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 12 Jan 2006, 14:05

Here's this years inductees.
Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall and Cocoa Kid snubbed again

http://www.ibhof.com/06pressconf/06announce.html

-KOKid-

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 12 Jan 2006, 15:01

-KOKid- wrote:Here's this years inductees.
Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall and Cocoa Kid snubbed again

http://www.ibhof.com/06pressconf/06announce.html

-KOKid-

Once again the IBHOF proves that it is nothing more than a joke. Carbajal and Gonzalez were both very good fighters, and if I had to induct one of them it would be Carbajal...but there is absolutely no rationalizing how these guys get into the hall of fame and guys like Holman Williams and Cocoa Kid are not.

On a good note, Jimmy Slattery and Teddy Yarosz finally got in.

It is insane how the IBHOF has a different category for fighters that fought before 1942. I can understand the different category for pioneers. The London Prize Ring fighters and other bareknuckle fighters cannot really be compared to the modern sport. But it's not as if boxing was so different 64 years ago than it is today that the IBHOF needs separate categories. It's merely a way for the IBHOF to induct more members IMO. If you combined the old-timers ballot with the modern ballot, then guys like Carbajal and Gonzalez wouldn't be getting in quite so easily.

Nothing against Carbajal and Gonzalez, but at this point I don't think of them as HOFers.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 12 Jan 2006, 15:13

iceman21287 wrote:Nothing against Carbajal and Gonzalez, but at this point I don't think of them as HOFers.

I thought the same thing when I read the anouncement. A couple more ordinary modern fighters while they continue to ignore greats from the past. I guess they fit right in with Carlos Palomino.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 12 Jan 2006, 15:43

Rodrigo Valdez isn't in there either. He was a good champion, but aside from his accomplishments, he was a terror in the ring. I'd pick him to beat several other middleweight greats including Fullmer, Fitzimmons and Zale. If it wasn't for Monzon, Valdez probably would have been the dominant champion for about four years.
I don't see how Randolph Turpin is in the IBHOF and the guys mentioned above (Williams, Valdez, Kid, Marshall) don't get in.

barry · Post by **barry** » 12 Jan 2006, 15:59

Jesus! Michael Carbajal and Humberto Gonzalez! I have a problem with both as there have been many other flyweights who are a hell of a lot more deserving than Carbajal and Gonzalez combined!

Gonzalez beat Carbajal, Melchor Cob Castro and Jung-Koo Chang and Carbajal beat Gonzalez and Melchor Cob Castro and that's about the extent of their accomplishments.

Talk about shitty...the IBHOF is a complete joke and the accomplishments that a boxer has to achieve before being voted on has hit an all-time low...I didn't think it was possible for them to vote in someone less worthy than Harry Harris, but they have managed to do so now!

All I can say for Brouillard, Slattery and especially Yarosz...it's about damn time!

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 12 Jan 2006, 17:21

that is a joke that holman williams, cocoa kid, and lyoyd marshall are not in the hall of fame. how the hell arnt these guys in yet?

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 12 Jan 2006, 17:33

barry wrote:Jesus! Michael Carbajal and Humberto Gonzalez! I have a problem with both as there have been many other flyweights who are a hell of a lot more deserving than Carbajal and Gonzalez combined!

Gonzalez beat Carbajal, Melchor Cob Castro and Jung-Koo Chang and Carbajal beat Gonzalez and Melchor Cob Castro and that's about the extent of their accomplishments.

Talk about shitty...the IBHOF is a complete joke and the accomplishments that a boxer has to achieve before being voted on has hit an all-time low...I didn't think it was possible for them to vote in someone less worthy than Harry Harris, but they have managed to do so now!

All I can say for Brouillard, Slattery and especially Yarosz...it's about damn time!

The IBHOF hasn't hit an all-time low just yet...

Wait until they vote in Mickey Ward

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 12 Jan 2006, 17:35

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:that is a joke that holman williams, cocoa kid, and lyoyd marshall are not in the hall of fame. how the hell arnt these guys in yet?

Damn Brockton...you joined 3 weeks after me and you're almost on your 3000th post

The most impressive thing about that is the vast majority of your posts are actually quality. Nice work man

Boxscribe · Post by **Boxscribe** » 12 Jan 2006, 19:00

To say that I feel let down by the exclusion of Holman Williams (again) is an understatement.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 12 Jan 2006, 22:40

Is Charley Burley in the Hall of Fame? I dont know. anyone?

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 13 Jan 2006, 03:43

Why not induct former world heavyweight champion Primo Carnera? From the heavyweight champions from the 1930s like Schmeling, Sharkey, Baer, Braddock, and Louis are in the international boxing hall of fame, but why not Carnera? Carnera was then the heaviest man to win the world heavyweight title before it was broken by current WBA heavyweight champion Nicolay Valuev.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 13 Jan 2006, 03:59

kovit wrote:Why not induct former world heavyweight champion Primo Carnera? From the heavyweight champions from the 1930s like Schmeling, Sharkey, Baer, Braddock, and Louis are in the international boxing hall of fame, but why not Carnera? Carnera was then the heaviest man to win the world heavyweight title before it was broken by current WBA heavyweight champion Nicolay Valuev.

You do have a point. If I were creating a HOF, then Carnera would not be in it. But this isn't about my HOF, this is the IBHOF.

The IBHOF has set it's standards so low that it might as well elect every champion into it. If Ingo and Jess Willard are in the IBHOF, then there is no reason Carnera shouldn't be in it.

I'm guessing the only reason Carnera isn't in the hall is that many of his fights were fixed.

kovit · Post by **kovit** » 13 Jan 2006, 04:40

They should induct Primo Carnera because of his size, strength, and accomplish in the ring, not fixed fights. There was another former world heavyweight champion they also didn't and that's Marvin Hart, but sadly he was a footnote in boxing history that he held the title between Jeffries and Burns. For Carnera his so called fixed fights was a past and there's no way they can denied him because, just his honor in the ring only if he had a right manager. Also, Thomas "The Hitman" Hearns should be in the IBHOF if he hadn't comeback to fight from last July. I hope "The Hands of Stone" Roberto Duran is the easy choice to induct him by next year in 2007.

barry · Post by **barry** » 13 Jan 2006, 06:13

Carnera has a hell of a lot better record then some heavyweights in the hall...even the bouts that weren't crooked.

>>>Wait until they vote in Mickey Ward<<<

Well, Ward is just as deserving as Carbajal, or Gonzalez. I really enjoyed watching both fight, but they're not HOF caliber!

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 13 Jan 2006, 06:51

Looking at who is in the IBHOF, I can't fugure out what their criteria for induction is.
I reaslise heavyweight champions get a free ticket, how else would one explain how a "flash in the pan" champion like Ingemar Johansson got in when he is 3-2 against top 10 opposition?
But for lighter weights, I don't get it.

-KOKid-

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 13 Jan 2006, 15:07

barry wrote:Carnera has a hell of a lot better record then some heavyweights in the hall...even the bouts that weren't crooked.

>>>Wait until they vote in Mickey Ward<<<

Well, Ward is just as deserving as Carbajal, or Gonzalez. I really enjoyed watching both fight, but they're not HOF caliber!

Carbajal and Gonzalez are both infinitely more deserving, based on career accomplishments, than Mickey Ward. Ward's claim to fame is a 10 round majority decision over Arturo Gatti. Carbajal and Gonzalez were both world champions. Ward never held anything more than the WBU title, and the only time he fought for a world title, against Vince Phillips, he was absolutely destroyed. He was completely outclassed by Zab Judah. Even James Leija was beating him fairly soundly when their fight was stopped.

Ward is one of my favorite fighters to watch, but if guys are getting in based off of one historic fight, then Carbajal and Gonzalez should both get in as well for their amazing first fight.

pound per pound · Post by **pound per pound** » 13 Jan 2006, 15:45

barry wrote:Jesus! Michael Carbajal and Humberto Gonzalez! I have a problem with both as there have been many other flyweights who are a hell of a lot more deserving than Carbajal and Gonzalez combined!

Gonzalez beat Carbajal, Melchor Cob Castro and Jung-Koo Chang and Carbajal beat Gonzalez and Melchor Cob Castro and that's about the extent of their accomplishments.

Talk about shitty...the IBHOF is a complete joke and the accomplishments that a boxer has to achieve before being voted on has hit an all-time low...I didn't think it was possible for them to vote in someone less worthy than Harry Harris, but they have managed to do so now!

All I can say for Brouillard, Slattery and especially Yarosz...it's about damn time!

Let's be fair here Barry. Boxing is not baseball. We have a liberal hall of fame.

Carbajal had an excellent ring record. He was 49-4 with just one TKO loss. Carbajal owns big KO wins over Kittikasem, and Humberto Gonzalez. Kittikasem KO'd a great fighter in Jung Koo Chang , so Carbajal beating him is significant. I think many boxing fans in general do not understand lower weight boxing. The talent at flyweight can be thin, and the primes of the fighters often go quickly. Yet at their best many lower weight fighters are true pound per pound fighters.

Carbajal was a true star in his era capable of captivating the fan’s imagination. Stuff like this matters to me. I give Carbajal bonus points for being in memorable fights. Many lower weight fights are games of tag. This was not the case with Carbajal, as he had a real seek and detroy type of style. You would be hard pressed to name many flyweights who hit harder. Was Carbajal the best fly of all time? No, but he was certainly worthy of enshrinement based on his skills, ring record, title defenses, and memborable fights. At least that's how I feel about him.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 13 Jan 2006, 18:34

Decagon wrote:
-KOKid- wrote:Looking at who is in the IBHOF, I can't fugure out what their criteria for induction is.
I reaslise heavyweight champions get a free ticket, how else would one explain how a "flash in the pan" champion like Ingemar Johansson got in when he is 3-2 against top 10 opposition?
But for lighter weights, I don't get it.

-KOKid-
Vitali Klistchko's 1-2 against top-10 competition, but a lot of people will be calling for him to get in.

What was the top 10 win? Corrie Sanders? Kirk Johnson?

Either way that's pretty pathetic if you think about it

theone · Post by **theone** » 13 Jan 2006, 19:10

Carbajal had an excellent ring record. He was 49-4 with just one TKO loss. Carbajal owns big KO wins over Kittikasem, and Humberto Gonzalez. Kittikasem KO'd a great fighter in Jung Koo Chang , so Carbajal beating him is significant. I think many boxing fans in general do not understand lower weight boxing. The talent at flyweight can be thin, and the primes of the fighters often go quickly. Yet at their best many lower weight fighters are true pound per pound fighters.
Carbajal was a true star in his era capable of captivating the fan’s imagination. Stuff like this matters to me. I give Carbajal bonus points for being in memorable fights. Many lower weight fights are games of tag. This was not the case with Carbajal, as he had a real seek and detroy type of style. You would be hard pressed to name many flyweights who hit harder. Was Carbajal the best fly of all time? No, but he was certainly worthy of enshrinement based on his skills, ring record, title defenses, and memborable fights. At least that's how I feel about him.

Very well put. You can almost make the same exact arugement for Gonzalez as well. I can go either way on both their enshrinements, and although there are fighters more deserving than them not in the hall, there are plenty less worthy than them in.
I'm alot more conflicted about Edwin Rosario's enshrinement. I was a very big fan of Chapo in his hey day, when he was arguably the hardest puncher in the game. Chapo had a lot of great moments but there was also those times when he looked like anything but a hall of famer.
But there are plenty of fighter in the hall who made it basically based on a string of very good wins and strong showings, although they had plenty of bad showings on their record, like Walcott,Jimmy Carter, Flash Eldore and even the great Dick Tiger.

barry · Post by **barry** » 13 Jan 2006, 21:00

So Carbajal and Gonzalez are in based basically on two, or three fights at the most, which are basically those bouts with each other...Mickey Ward is just as deserving, but that's not saying much because both Carbajal and Gonzalez fall short when you look at the careers of other flyweights. Hell, flyweights like Jackie Paterson, Pone Kingpetch, Santos Lacair, Black Bill, Ruby Bradley had a hell of a lot more deserving career than the two flyweights enshrined this year.

Is Jung-Koo Chang, Yuri Arbachakov or Sot Chitlada even in the HOF? Gonzalez and Carbajal both never would move up three pounds to face Arbachkov.

The IBHOF is flawed beyond repair, but then again today's boxing is all about rewarding mediocrity as if it is truly something special, not saying that Gonzalez and Carbajal were mediocre, but the new inductee’s don’t really surprise me as boxing has sunk lower and lower in every aspect…what a shame!

Chuck1052 · Post by **Chuck1052** » 13 Jan 2006, 21:25

The Baseball Hall of Fame has quite a number of unworthy
inductees, especially some players who played during the
1920s and the 1930s. They include Freddie Lindstrom,
George "High Pockets" Kelly, Chick Hafey, Jesse Haines,
Rube Marquard, and Ross Youngs. Yes, a number of the
the named players have high lifetime batting averages,
but they were playing at a time when conditions were
much more favorable for batters, hence the much
higher batting averages during the said decades.
Both Haines and Marquard had low winning
percentages as pitchers despite playing for terrific
teams.

- Chuck Johnston

cybox · Post by **cybox** » 13 Jan 2006, 22:40

Thomas Hearns and Larry Holmes would have added class to this years inductees if they woldnt have had their comeback fights (Heanrs in 2005) and Holmes against Butterbean. They both would have retired in 2000.
That would have been a huge induction week!

cybox · Post by **cybox** » 13 Jan 2006, 22:44

if not for their comeback fights Holmes (Butterbean) and Hearns( 2005 fight) would have been inducted this year.

iceman21287 · Post by **iceman21287** » 13 Jan 2006, 23:09

barry wrote:So Carbajal and Gonzalez are in based basically on two, or three fights at the most, which are basically those bouts with each other...Mickey Ward is just as deserving, but that's not saying much because both Carbajal and Gonzalez fall short when you look at the careers of other flyweights. Hell, flyweights like Jackie Paterson, Pone Kingpetch, Santos Lacair, Black Bill, Ruby Bradley had a hell of a lot more deserving career than the two flyweights enshrined this year.

Is Jung-Koo Chang, Yuri Arbachakov or Sot Chitlada even in the HOF? Gonzalez and Carbajal both never would move up three pounds to face Arbachkov.

The IBHOF is flawed beyond repair, but then again today's boxing is all about rewarding mediocrity as if it is truly something special, not saying that Gonzalez and Carbajal were mediocre, but the new inductee’s don’t really surprise me as boxing has sunk lower and lower in every aspect…what a shame!

I completely agree with you that the system is flawed beyond repair. I also agree with you than neither Carbajal nor Gonzalez are really HOFers. However, the point I was trying to get across is that, though they fought at best slim competition in their careers, they were both world champions and there is no denying that at their peak they were two of the top flyweights in the world.

Mickey Ward was never, at any point, anymore than a mandatory challenger at best. If it wasn't for his shocking KO against Alfonso Sanchez (for those who haven't seen the fight, Ward was literally losing every second of the fight until the 7th round when he hit Sanchez with his patented 1-2 head shot, kidney shot combo and dropped him for a 10 count), Ward would never have received a title shot.

Once again, I love Micky Ward to death, but I would just not put him on the same level as Carbajal or Gonzalez.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 14 Jan 2006, 01:38

iceman21287 wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:that is a joke that holman williams, cocoa kid, and lyoyd marshall are not in the hall of fame. how the hell arnt these guys in yet?
Damn Brockton...you joined 3 weeks after me and you're almost on your 3000th post

The most impressive thing about that is the vast majority of your posts are actually quality. Nice work man

ha! didnt realize it myself

IBHOF Class 2006

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