Who is the most ovverrated ATG p4p Boxer ever?

[Chepppaaa]

i have to say that even so i dont like floyd, but floyd is correct in one thing, althought muhammad ali was a terrific boxer, but losing round by round getting punched as heavybag for so many rounds agaisnt foreman and than foreman gasing out, not so super impressiv. also, lets not forget, norton won against ali, but got robbed, so many people that rewatched the fight say that. also losing to a robotic small, powerless but speedless frazier isnt that great either. i mean frazier was miles away of being as sound as a prime tyson, in any terms, technicly, powerwise, speedwise even chin.

now lets get to floyd, who many call, like also himself TBE, the best ever. lets put one thing clear, the perfect boxer does not exist and wont never exist, but if there is someone to call as close as perfect as it gets, than it is a PRIME ROY JONES JR!!!!! and if you dont get by skill & athletic abiltiy and you prefer to go by record, than it is more a record of what robinson has, than what floyds got.
the loss against castillo and draw against maidana also doesnt help much. but i have to say a prime mayweather (corrales version) is a top 5 ever boxer period, to athletic, to technicly sound, to accurate, but not TBE.

for me the most obvious choice, lost every big fight he has been in. one robbery and strange refferey descision after the other. taylor, pernell, de la hoya, tszyu all beat him. i mean, you dont fight 100 cab drivers just to build a great record and that be put in a sentence with real atg top 10 material, simply does not work this way.

same for duran, he fought chump after chump, build a record with lots of fights and lots of chumbs and when it was time facing quality lost every single fight except one, where leonard was so stupid to try to brawl with a brawler.

now dont get it twisted. every 4 boxers mentioned are great, but they are not who so called experts think they are. ali is by no way p4p #1 like a lot of lists have him, shouting a thousand times "i am the greatest" doesnt make you the greatest, like i said, gift desicsion like against norton and not so stellar performances where he was behind on scorecards and basicly won because one big guy didnt train enough condition. mayweather called by a lot #1 ever, will never be close as great as a prime jones or prime robinson, hell, not even prime leonard. chavez and duran are in a lot of peoples p4p top 10 atg and dont belong there. 11-20 is enough for them, but with people like hearns, pacquiao, hagler, rigondeaux, lopez, pernell around they simply do not belong in a top 10, since they lost to top 10 guys way to much!

[Boxerbeetle]

Do many P4P lists really have Ali as #1?

[NateJR]

Out of the guys on this list... Chavez takes the cake by a mile.

[cocka09]

Do many P4P lists really have Ali as #1?

Most credible lists tend to have the same top 3 in different order. Ray Robinson, Harry Greb, Ali - Hard to aruge with them.

[KBB]

i have to say that even so i dont like floyd, but floyd is correct in one thing, althought muhammad ali was a terrific boxer, but losing round by round getting punched as heavybag for so many rounds agaisnt foreman and than foreman gasing out, not so super impressiv. also, lets not forget, norton won against ali, but got robbed, so many people that rewatched the fight say that. also losing to a robotic small, powerless but speedless frazier isnt that great either. i mean frazier was miles away of being as sound as a prime tyson, in any terms, technicly, powerwise, speedwise even chin.

now lets get to floyd, who many call, like also himself TBE, the best ever. lets put one thing clear, the perfect boxer does not exist and wont never exist, but if there is someone to call as close as perfect as it gets, than it is a PRIME ROY JONES JR!!!!! and if you dont get by skill & athletic abiltiy and you prefer to go by record, than it is more a record of what robinson has, than what floyds got.
the loss against castillo and draw against maidana also doesnt help much. but i have to say a prime mayweather (corrales version) is a top 5 ever boxer period, to athletic, to technicly sound, to accurate, but not TBE.

for me the most obvious choice, lost every big fight he has been in. one robbery and strange refferey descision after the other. taylor, pernell, de la hoya, tszyu all beat him. i mean, you dont fight 100 cab drivers just to build a great record and that be put in a sentence with real atg top 10 material, simply does not work this way.

same for duran, he fought chump after chump, build a record with lots of fights and lots of chumbs and when it was time facing quality lost every single fight except one, where leonard was so stupid to try to brawl with a brawler.

now dont get it twisted. every 4 boxers mentioned are great, but they are not who so called experts think they are. ali is by no way p4p #1 like a lot of lists have him, shouting a thousand times "i am the greatest" doesnt make you the greatest, like i said, gift desicsion like against norton and not so stellar performances where he was behind on scorecards and basicly won because one big guy didnt train enough condition. mayweather called by a lot #1 ever, will never be close as great as a prime jones or prime robinson, hell, not even prime leonard. chavez and duran are in a lot of peoples p4p top 10 atg and dont belong there. 11-20 is enough for them, but with people like hearns, pacquiao, hagler, rigondeaux, lopez, pernell around they simply do not belong in a top 10, since they lost to top 10 guys way to much!

I think you hit your head again in a good way and I can remember when Ali started calling himself the Greatest (after the Liston win) but IMHO he was never the Greatest, the stats prove who has done what.

Floyd is not actually stating anything that is incorrect, he is stating the obvious and that is that STATISTICALLY his stats are The Best Ever and if you do a Google search you will find this out to be true, besides should a Boxer state "I'm TWE" (The Worst Ever).

The entire problem with this thread will be that you have a bunch of immature and hateful assholes here who will go simply on emotion and not the FACTS and they will discredit Floyd because they do not understand what he is stating in regards to being TBE.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1135 ... x-at-least

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/77 ... ing-greats

http://breakingmuscle.com/kickboxing-bo ... r-so-great

[man]

i actually think that p4p lists are usually done
by knowledgable people and are most of the
time very smart. one might argue details, but
most p4p top ten seem fine to me. i must say
i have not seen one that has chavez within top
fifteen.

weight class all time rankings are a different
animal, because many dumb people come up
with many dumb ratings. not so much in p4p.

[KBB]

It's funny, strange and odd that in every sport (other than Boxing) stats means something and is the best and accepted indicator of Greatness but now since Mayweather is in the lead in Boxing somehow the Stats no longer matter.

The double standard is in effect because immature buttholes can't stomach the truth due to their HATE for Floyd.

[IKSRTFO]

It's funny, strange and odd that in every sport (other than Boxing) stats means something and is the best and accepted indicator of Greatness but now since Mayweather is in the lead in Boxing somehow the Stats no longer matter.

The double standard is in effect because immature buttholes can't stomach the truth due to their HATE for Floyd.

In every sport, they have to face ALL of their competition no matter what. Boxing is one of the very few sports you can choose who you face the boxers rated above Floyd faced tougher opposition. Floyd hasn't fought anyone as good as Duran, Hearns, and Hagler on Leonard's record.

[KBB]

It's funny, strange and odd that in every sport (other than Boxing) stats means something and is the best and accepted indicator of Greatness but now since Mayweather is in the lead in Boxing somehow the Stats no longer matter.

The double standard is in effect because immature buttholes can't stomach the truth due to their HATE for Floyd.

In every sport, they have to face ALL of their competition no matter what. Boxing is one of the very few sports you can choose who you face the boxers rated above Floyd faced tougher opposition. Floyd hasn't fought anyone as good as Duran, Hearns, and Hagler on Leonard's record.

Neither has Manny!!

You act as if Floyd had the luxury of choosing who he fought his entire career, he didn't get that luxury until after he was able to beat Oscar. No fighter has ever faced ALL of their competition.

Did Leonard face Pryor? Did Jones face Darius? Did LaMotta face Graziano? Did Marciano face Patterson?? Did Foreman face Shavers?

Did Hearns face McCallum?? Did Sanchez face Chavez?? Did Bowe face Lewis?? Did Tyson face Tua or Foreman??

Stop talking out the side of your neck, you have no idea what you are talking about.......you are just speaking out of your emotions and hate for Mayweather.

[koolkc107]

I think the mistake made in most talks like this is that no one ever defines exactly what they mean by either "great" or "overrated".
And when you say P4P, you are on dicey ground mentioning heavyweights, as the term was invented with the idea of excluding the big boys somewhat.

Does great P4P mean the guy who was dominant in several weightclasses without need for gimmicky matchmaking or cherrypicking?
That's Homicide Hank and it's not even close.

Does P4P great mean the guy that had it all, skill, power, heart, chin, and used it the best over a career?
That's Walker Smith.

Does it mean the guy you know would not only beat but probably clown everyone else if they were all the same size?
That's probably a prime Roy Jones.

Does it mean the best of a legendary group of fighters of the same era?
That's Sugar Ray Leonard or Ali.

Does it mean a boxer that so transcends the sport that he becomes a worldwide icon?
That's Ali hands down, with the only guys running a very distant second being Vitali and Pac.

For my money, it's Ali. No boxer has meant more to the sport. No boxer put the sport on such a worldwide stage.

But if you mean pure skill and ability, it's Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard...and yes maybe Floyd when it is all said and done.

[IKSRTFO]

It's funny, strange and odd that in every sport (other than Boxing) stats means something and is the best and accepted indicator of Greatness but now since Mayweather is in the lead in Boxing somehow the Stats no longer matter.

The double standard is in effect because immature buttholes can't stomach the truth due to their HATE for Floyd.

In every sport, they have to face ALL of their competition no matter what. Boxing is one of the very few sports you can choose who you face the boxers rated above Floyd faced tougher opposition. Floyd hasn't fought anyone as good as Duran, Hearns, and Hagler on Leonard's record.

Neither has Manny!!

You act as if Floyd had the luxury of choosing who he fought his entire career, he didn't get that luxury until after he was able to beat Oscar. No fighter has ever faced ALL of their competition.

Did Leonard face Pryor? Did Jones face Darius? Did LaMotta face Graziano? Did Marciano face Patterson?? Did Foreman face Shavers?

Did Hearns face McCallum?? Did Sanchez face Chavez?? Did Bowe face Lewis?? Did Tyson face Tua or Foreman??

Stop talking out the side of your neck, you have no idea what you are talking about.......you are just speaking out of your emotions and hate for Mayweather.

Nobody's saying Manny is better than Robinson or Ali let alone Manny himself. Floyd himself said he is better and that's why he's under scrutiny.

FACT: Leonard faced ALL of the 4 kings of his era. Only Hagler you could argue was not in his prime.

[stevedoc]

Out of the guys on this list... Chavez takes the cake by a mile.

I disagree completely he's the most underated of the 4

[koolkc107]

Out of the guys on this list... Chavez takes the cake by a mile.

I disagree completely he's the most underated of the 4

Again, it is how you define things.

If greatest means longest time without a defeat that's Jimmy Wilde or JCC sr.

[Monte Fisto]

Out of the guys on this list... Chavez takes the cake by a mile.

I disagree completely he's the most underated of the 4

Again, it is how you define things.

If greatest means longest time without a defeat that's Jimmy Wilde or JCC sr.

yep, this is so subjective. Basically what do you like in a fighter.
Still, no problem in having poll. Probably better if you had a bigger list Chep

[KBB]

Nobody's saying Manny is better than Robinson or Ali let alone Manny himself. Floyd himself said he is better and that's why he's under scrutiny.

FACT: Leonard faced ALL of the 4 kings of his era. Only Hagler you could argue was not in his prime.

Manny wouldn't dare say it because his stats are nowhere near in the league of Floyd's, so why would he need to lie. The stats prove that Floyd is better, you accept stats in every sport, it's time you stop being a biased idiot and accept the stats boxing has shown us on Mayweather which proves stat for stat he is Better (as he stated) than every fighter.

[KBB]

Kobe and Michael both have very similar games but what makes Jordan better than Bryant??

Stats!!

Stat for Stat Michael Jordan stacks up better than the rest, in every sport the stats are the measure for true greatness.

Stat for stat which player is better than Bonds in baseball??

Stat for stat which player is better than Gretzky in hockey??

Stat for stat which sprinter is faster than Bolt??

Stat for stat which boxer is better than Floyd?

The answer in all of them, NONE!!

[Chepppaaa]

one big problem i have with ali is that he did not like to train, neither did he trained hardcore. i mean he gave training 70 %, while guys like floyd or manny gave it 95-100 % and that showed in a lot of fights.

[Chepppaaa]

Kobe and Michael both have very similar games but what makes Jordan better than Bryant??

Stats!!

Stat for Stat Michael Jordan stacks up better than the rest, in every sport the stats are the measure for true greatness.

Stat for stat which player is better than Bonds in baseball??

Stat for stat which player is better than Gretzky in hockey??

Stat for stat which sprinter is faster than Bolt??

Stat for stat which boxer is better than Floyd?

The answer in all of them, NONE!!

being the best is not all about stats, it has to do what you are. what kind of skill level and ability you have, if prime roy only had fought 30 times he still would be the #1 ever, simply because in his prime he was better than everyone else.

[KBB]

being the best is not all about stats, it has to do what you are. what kind of skill level and ability you have, if prime roy only had fought 30 times he still would be the #1 ever, simply because in his prime he was better than everyone else.

I didn't say that it was only about the stats but those stats tell the story and all those other things (skill level, ability) you stated are the reason why those stats are higher than everyone else's.

[Chepppaaa]

being the best is not all about stats, it has to do what you are. what kind of skill level and ability you have, if prime roy only had fought 30 times he still would be the #1 ever, simply because in his prime he was better than everyone else.

I didn't say that it was only about the stats but those stats tell the story and all those other things (skill level, ability) you stated are the reason why those stats are higher than everyone else's.

okay..thats sounds logic

sadly so many boxer dont get a shot to make their record bigger, because often boxers dont wanan face oder top dangerous boxers and than teh record basicly stays the same way, or the y have the bad luck that they dont have no big names around to beat.

[scallum2015]

how many in their prime greats has Floyd Beaten?

[KBB]

Out of the guys on this list... Chavez takes the cake by a mile.

Without a doubt, he is who I selected in this poll, dude had over 100 fights when a plethora of nobodies down in Mexico, talking about the most padded resume in the sport for an ATG.

He flat out lost to Sweet Pea in the robbery of the decade and was bailed out by the Ref in the fight with Taylor, Floyd never needed a life and death last minute KO, he has never allowed himself to just lay on the ropes and be beaten to the body while allowing the other guy to punch himself out, he has never lost to a fighter with 7 wins.

People are quick to dismiss all of those things but are quick to point out his fight with Castillo (only 1 fight) or his knockdown vs Judah (only 1 knockdown in an entire career<<<how many times JCC, Ali, Duran, SRR and SRL has hit the deck?

The problem is simple, hate clouds the real judgment here and no fighter has ever been more hated than Floyd, I dislike his persona but I cannot take credit from what he has done as a fighter.

[IKSRTFO]

It's funny, strange and odd that in every sport (other than Boxing) stats means something and is the best and accepted indicator of Greatness but now since Mayweather is in the lead in Boxing somehow the Stats no longer matter.

The double standard is in effect because immature buttholes can't stomach the truth due to their HATE for Floyd.

In every sport, they have to face ALL of their competition no matter what. Boxing is one of the very few sports you can choose who you face the boxers rated above Floyd faced tougher opposition. Floyd hasn't fought anyone as good as Duran, Hearns, and Hagler on Leonard's record.

Neither has Manny!!

You act as if Floyd had the luxury of choosing who he fought his entire career, he didn't get that luxury until after he was able to beat Oscar. No fighter has ever faced ALL of their competition.

Did Leonard face Pryor? Did Jones face Darius? Did LaMotta face Graziano? Did Marciano face Patterson?? Did Foreman face Shavers?

Did Hearns face McCallum?? Did Sanchez face Chavez?? Did Bowe face Lewis?? Did Tyson face Tua or Foreman??

Stop talking out the side of your neck, you have no idea what you are talking about.......you are just speaking out of your emotions and hate for Mayweather.

All of those fighters faced better opponents than who you suggested. Leonard faced Hearns, Duran, and Hagler. Who has Floyd faced who is on that level?

[IKSRTFO]

Nobody's saying Manny is better than Robinson or Ali let alone Manny himself. Floyd himself said he is better and that's why he's under scrutiny.

FACT: Leonard faced ALL of the 4 kings of his era. Only Hagler you could argue was not in his prime.

Manny wouldn't dare say it because his stats are nowhere near in the league of Floyd's, so why would he need to lie. The stats prove that Floyd is better, you accept stats in every sport, it's time you stop being a biased idiot and accept the stats boxing has shown us on Mayweather which proves stat for stat he is Better (as he stated) than every fighter.

But his opponents aren't. That's where it counts. My stats would be better than Floyd's if I fought 10 year olds. So what?

[KBB]

But his opponents aren't. That's where it counts. My stats would be better than Floyd's if I fought 10 year olds. So what?

So what? Floyd isn't fighting bums, he has 24 champions on his resume, many of them younger than him and most of them are far bigger or young enough to be considered in their prime or near it.

You guys look to nitpick too much but this is boxing and only because it's Floyd you downplay the stats, if Manny had these stats with his 8 different weight classes then you'd be here stating how he is the best ever and so will the rest of the fans of his.

Give credit where credit is due, I get it, you don't like the man but don't allow a simple thing like your emotional girlie feelings cloud your judgment.