Kostya Tszyu - seriously overrated.

[Bard of Boxrec]

I saw a comment on the CS from some guy who I don't normally agree with about much but he made a point about Tszyu being overrated and certainly didn't do enough to be a great, and I've always felt this.

This for a so-called great:

Lost to a guy who had been beaten thrice, only once to a top fighter. Admittedly Phillips blew hot and cold and when he was on he was good.

Best win over Zab Judah.

Vast experience of feasting on Oscar's leftovers; Ruelas, a fossilised JCC, Gonzalez, Leija.

A sprinkling of solid wins but hardly great, Hurtado, Mitchell, Gonzalez, Urkal.

I think people put too much stock in him unifying and being undisputed but he didn't have a long or impressive reign, and he only ended up fighting 33 times.

Great? No. He had skill and a lot of power and had the potential to achieve more, but would have been outboxed by the likes of Oscar and Shane IMO.

[crusader]

I agree.

[Tuan_Jim]

I've always said this. He emerged with such a menacing thumping of Jake Rodriguez that it seemed to imbue him with a mystique he never lived up to. He was KOd clean in a routine defence by the aged Phillips and then, as you say, a smattering of solid wins, crunching Gonzalez was impressive, demolishing Zab Judah a nice result, but nothing extraordinary. The second time he was tested properly he came up short again. His inflated reputation is another symptom of boxing's problem with multiple belts, prolonged reigns and padded records.

[fanman]

Interesting that you mentioned mosley & delahoya, had those fights happened we would have a clearer picture.
I mean tszyu could be swarmed and overwhelmed on a bad night but he was really an excellent boxer with great power.
I personally wouldn't call tszyu over-rated, i mean no one is saying he is one of the very best ever and he really did have excellent abilities.

[misterpunch]

yes he did - great skills and a real rocket in his fists. have to say he just comes up short though in any true reckoning of greatness. ive heard it said that his trainer didn't get the most out of him. I don't know about that

[coneye]

Can remember a few of his fights where he pulled out a big punch to save his bacon , and a couple where he could'nt pull it out and got beat .He was good but obviuosly beatable and did tend to hand pick .

[BoxBuzz]

There is some baloney being pedaled here. Not that I disagree that he was short of being considered in the best of the best.

However...he never ducked a challenger...no hand picking...willing to mix it up with anyone who would sign on. Show me some evidence of a shirking on his part. You won't find any.

He fought who was in front of him...and never made excuses. Truly had a bond with his fans, and had a great work ethic.

He was avoided by others....so some great matches did not take place. Now I'm not saying they shirked either...but perhaps were not considered lucrative enough by business managers.

May well have won the fight with Hatton, just change the venue and ref...and you may well have seen another outcome. That was clearly a "Ricky friendly" environment in more ways than one.

Vince Phillips was a fluke....could happen to anyone....and it happened to Kostya. No chance of a repeat IMHO. It's at least arguable that his two losses could be considered two unlucky moments.

A great sportsman as well. He did not quit.....Like Frazier he was instructed to....unlike Frazier he chose not pick a second fight with his handler on that night. A class act all around.

He was as classy as anyone who has entered the ring...including Joe Louis. Though he did not share quite the degree of talent that Joe possessed.

[Tuan_Jim]

Vince Phillips a fluke?

Buzz, it wasn't a lucky punch - Phillips walked through his fire and beat him up.

[Counter-puncher]

Vince Phillips was a fluke....could happen to anyone....and it happened to Kostya. No chance of a repeat IMHO. It's at least arguable that his two losses could be considered two unlucky moments.

A great sportsman as well. He did not quit.....Like Frazier he was instructed to....unlike Frazier he chose not pick a second fight with his handler on that night. A class act all around.

He was as classy as anyone who has entered the ring...including Joe Louis. Though he did not share quite the degree of talent that Joe possessed.

i agree with your comments on him as a man but think your reading of the Phillips fights is deeply, deeply misguided

[Impractical Poster]

I believe he had the potential to be great. But he fell in love with his power. I remember going back and watching his AM performance against Forrest. I couldn't believe I was watching the same fighter.

[dempseyfire]

I saw a comment on the CS from some guy who I don't normally agree with about much but he made a point about Tszyu being overrated and certainly didn't do enough to be a great, and I've always felt this.

This for a so-called great:

Lost to a guy who had been beaten thrice, only once to a top fighter. Admittedly Phillips blew hot and cold and when he was on he was good.

Best win over Zab Judah.

Vast experience of feasting on Oscar's leftovers; Ruelas, a fossilised JCC, Gonzalez, Leija.

A sprinkling of solid wins but hardly great, Hurtado, Mitchell, Gonzalez, Urkal.

I think people put too much stock in him unifying and being undisputed but he didn't have a long or impressive reign, and he only ended up fighting 33 times.

Great? No. He had skill and a lot of power and had the potential to achieve more, but would have been outboxed by the likes of Oscar and Shane IMO.

I actually agree. I don't consider Tszyu an ATG by any means. He was a very good fighter but he had a pretty mediocre defense and was fairly one-dimensional. Also as you note his lacking resume. The Judah win in retrospective is not nearly as impressive as it seemed at the time.

[Crease]

No one has said this yet, but I think that Tszyu is rated pretty fairly these days. Looking at his record again, the guy had a sensational run as a Light Welterweight Champion (unifying three of the titles) and very nearly cleaning out the division.

I think it's pretty much undeniable that the was the number one fighter of his division in his prime (1999-2004)... Would any of us really say that Randall Bailey or DeMarcus Corley were better? I'm not so sure, but I wouldn't think so.

So looking at it, yeah he was the number one man of his division... Fair enough I'd say...

[BoxBuzz]

Vince Phillips a fluke?

Buzz, it wasn't a lucky punch - Phillips walked through his fire and beat him up.

He never spoke of it or made an excuse that I am aware of.....but he didn't look right in that fight. So I do think it was a bad day at the office.

I'm not talkin' a fluke single shot.....I'm talking a full fledged bad day. Ever had one of those?

[grevan]

First off, where do you think he's rated in the first place? And why is that position so untenable to you?

It seems to me the general consensus is that he was a good champion who had good power but some flaws. He was definitely the best 140 pounder in the world for about a 5 year period and would probably figure on most people's lists of the top ten junior welterweights of all time (admittedly, one of the less talented divisions).

Not sure what De La Hoya (who had 3 fights at 140) or Mosley (who had none) have got to do with anything. I've never seen anyone rate Kostya above them pound for pound and their limited (or non-existent) records at 140 probably preclude them from the top ten JW argument.

Show me the rating of Tszyu you're speaking of and we can kick start the argument of whether he's "overrated" or not.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

We'v had this debate before on BOXREC FORUM...........OVER-RATED.............NO ............ THATS MY OPINION.
Today's Champion's [NOT ALL] hand pick opponent's and even choose what brand of boxing glove they can wear and what weight they can be
TSZYU DID IT THE OLD FASHION WAY and PUNCHED HIS WAY OUT OF POVERTY.
NO FAVOUR'S ASKED and NONE GIVEN SOMEWHAT OF A PIONEER FOR RUSSIAN BOXER'S.... ...
WAS PROBABLY DUCKED BY A FEW...... D

[Bard of Boxrec]

We'v had this debate before on BOXREC FORUM...........OVER-RATED.............NO ............ THATS MY OPINION.
Today's Champion's [NOT ALL] hand pick opponent's and even choose what brand of boxing glove they can wear and what weight they can be
TSZYU DID IT THE OLD FASHION WAY and PUNCHED HIS WAY OUT OF POVERTY.
NO FAVOUR'S ASKED and NONE GIVEN SOMEWHAT OF A PIONEER FOR RUSSIAN BOXER'S.... ...
WAS PROBABLY DUCKED BY A FEW...... D

Bill Hodge, is that you? You're getting there with the literacy!

[ClivePatrickLyons]

We'v had this debate before on BOXREC FORUM...........OVER-RATED.............NO ............ THATS MY OPINION.
Today's Champion's [NOT ALL] hand pick opponent's and even choose what brand of boxing glove they can wear and what weight they can be
TSZYU DID IT THE OLD FASHION WAY and PUNCHED HIS WAY OUT OF POVERTY.
NO FAVOUR'S ASKED and NONE GIVEN SOMEWHAT OF A PIONEER FOR RUSSIAN BOXER'S.... ...
WAS PROBABLY DUCKED BY A FEW...... D

Bill Hodge, is that you? You're getting there with the literacy!

Who's Bill Hodge :?? Blow Job

[magwitch]

Interesting that you mentioned mosley & delahoya, had those fights happened we would have a clearer picture.
I mean tszyu could be swarmed and overwhelmed on a bad night but he was really an excellent boxer with great power.
I personally wouldn't call tszyu over-rated, i mean no one is saying he is one of the very best ever and he really did have excellent abilities.

I agree with this.