Rodrigo Valdez vs. Rocky Graziano

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 13 Jan 2006, 16:15

Competitive matchup, wouldn't you say?

Well I wouldn't.

I've made this topic just as a tester to see how good you all think Rodrigo Valdez was... Was he in the same class as Graziano? No. He was leagues above.

Let's be fair... Rocky Graziano was a great fighter - but he was relatively skill less. He was all about landing the big right hand, which probably only landed twenty percent of the time. Graziano's greatness stems from his wars with Tony Zale - a fighter who I'll now admit was not much better. Graziano was trashed by Zale in the rubber match, and was on the wrong end of a vicious knockout at the hands of Ray Robinson - a fight in which Rocky barely made an effort. Rocky had a decent chin, the heart of a lion and one handed power. But that's where it ended.

Rodrigo Valdez, on the other hand, was a class fighter. He is best known for his close losses to Carlos Monzon and his wars with Bennie Briscoe. Valdez however was a great champion in his own right - undoubtedly the second best middleweight of the seventies; a time when the division was rich, and probably the greatest middleweight of all time reigned supreme. Monzon may have been a little past his prime when Valdez fought him, but Monzon really was that good - he wouldn't let himself lose. There is no shame in coming up just short of beating King Carlos.

Whereas Graziano was limited, Valdez was definitely not. The skill, durability and even power difference on film is striking at first glance. While Rocky wailed away trying to land his big right hand, other hand down, chin up in the air - Valdez was setting his equalizer up with a fast, busy jab; chin tucked, nice and composed. Valdez was a brilliant infighter - Bennie Briscoe was probably the best bodypuncher and infighter of the seventies middleweights, and Valdez matched him on the inside in all three fights. Rodrigo also had a superb chin - the beating he took off Carlos Monzon in the late rounds of their second fight would have felled any lesser man, and some of the single right hands and left-right combinations he took off Briscoe, both to the body and head, would have also. Yet Valdez wouldn't budge.
Valdez liked to stalk a guy, and was extremely strong. He forced back and outpunched the punchers of the seventies, all while keeping a moderately tight defense. If a guy was there to be hit, Valdez would hit him with fast combinations, alternating between body and head. While he could hit with the left, it was his right hand that carried the dynamite. The Ring claimed in 2003: "Valdez' straight right was a club. It was by far the hardest punch in the middleweight division throughout the seventies, when there were several good middleweights who could crack."

When you have guys like Carlos Monzon, Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Bennie Briscoe and Eugene Hart to contend with, having "by far" the hardest punch is really saying something. The Ring ranks Rodrigo Valdez the 29th greatest puncher of all time.
What also says something is how Valdez was the only man to floor Carlos Monzon in thirteen years - and how he was able to knock out the iron-chinned Briscoe with virtually one punch.

Ignore the Corro fights... Valdez was a case of where a fighter grows old overnight. Nobody could believe it when he lost to Corro, who was nothing special himself. Those who saw the fight exclaimed from the opening bell Valdez was nothing compared to the beast he was in his prime. Not surprising... Those wars with Monzon and Briscoe were savage.

It makes me sad to see Valdez so underrated... He hardly gets mentioned. On my list of great middleweights he would probably come in around #18. However based on head-to-head ability, I would rank him in the lower top ten, around #8. The most elite of boxer-movers and clever tacticians could outbox him, but I can't think of anyone who could outpunch him. Not Ketchel, not LaMotta, not Cerdan... Even titanium-chinned, combination punching Marvelous Marvin would have to use his boxing skills and excellent jab. Valdez was far too strong and hard hitting, but with the speed, skills, stamina and durability to back it up.

I would pick Valdez to knock out Graziano in three rounds. Valdez didn't usually start too fast, so I could see Graziano lasting this long. But as soon as the big guns start to fly, Rocky ain't gonna be standing too long. To be brutally honest, I can't see Graziano's right hand landing too much, and if it does, Valdez won't be too affected. It usually took Rocky a few consecutive right hands to dismantle his opponents and knock them out, and Valdez was too sharp and strong-chinned to let that happen. His superior power, handspeed, jab, defense and durability are all too much for Graziano, who takes a couple of right hands and is knocked out in the third frame.

I suggest you guys get some film of Valdez in his prime. If you haven't already, it's worth it. I'm sure you'll be impressed.

Thoughts?

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 13 Jan 2006, 16:26

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 464b6266b1

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 13 Jan 2006, 16:28

Seamus wrote:http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 464b6266b1

I am well aware of this thank you. I made the new topic in order to say what I needed to say and have it right at the top where everybody can see it, and so everyone could make their pick after reading what I had wrote. As you can see, even my opinion has altered slightly over the last month.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 13 Jan 2006, 17:17

Will I ever forgive Rodrigo Valdez for stopping 'Bad' Bennie Briscoe?

That was one serious savage punch that brought hell with it.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 13 Jan 2006, 17:22

KOJOE90 wrote:Will I ever forgive Rodrigo Valdez for stopping 'Bad' Bennie Briscoe?

That was one serious savage punch that brought hell with it.

That was quite amazing. Bennie had taken Marvelous Marvin's ripping uppercuts and straight lefts, King Carlos' best right hands, Cyclone Hart's monster left hooks and didn't budge. Valdez took him out with practically one punch.

If you watch the film, it looks like Valdez may have broken Bennie's nose with that right hand. His nose squashes up and he holds it while writhing on the floor.

theone · Post by **theone** » 13 Jan 2006, 18:18

Valdez would have destroyed Graziano. Graziano made his rep on the bodies of overmatched and overblown middleweights. He had heart, personality and a big punch, but not much else.
Valdez was a truly undderappreciated middleweight who at his best would have given any middle in history a good fight.

Valdez wins by tko 4.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 13 Jan 2006, 19:11

Valdez by ko or tko probably by the mid rounds

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 14 Jan 2006, 00:16

theone wrote:Valdez would have destroyed Graziano. Graziano made his rep on the bodies of overmatched and overblown middleweights. He had heart, personality and a big punch, but not much else.
Valdez was a truly undderappreciated middleweight who at his best would have given any middle in history a good fight.

Valdez wins by tko 4.

I agree I think Valdez wins this without much trouble.Also ,I respect Graziano for his powerful right hand, and entertaining style,however I recently saw a film of his fight against Chuck Davey and I thought he really didnt put forth too much of an effort. That fight was a little odd. Just my opinion, anyone else see this fight?