Evander Holyfield (1987) vs James Toney (2003) at CW

[Seamus]

Holyfield from the year he stopped Tillman, Parkey, Ocasio, and Qawi vs Toney from the year he beat Jirov. Feel free to give scenarios for 15 and 12 rounds.

[tiny_acres]

Holyfield wins convincingly.Holy at cruiser was a beast.
When Toney knocked out Holy it was just a shadow of what Evander once was.

[dempseyfire]

Holyfield by late stoppage.

[hhaehre]

Holyfield by a mile, he'd outwork Toney in every round.

[Syntax Error]

Holyfield on points.

I'd pick Evander, but it might be harder than some people think.

Toney was a Michelin man above 175, but he was still good, with a great defence & world class chin.

[palooka]

As others have said; Holy field would get his head down and work, work, work; he had a great chin at cruiser and was so game. Toney would be backed up to the ropes and would counter effectively and with spectacular punches but Holy field would just not stop going and he was a 15 round fighter back then whereas Toney worked a minute and then rested a minute.

[Seamus]

Toney might have just enough defensive skill, pride and durability to last 12 with Holyfield, though I think he'd probably lose big on the cards, probably by something like 8-9 pts. In a 15 rounder with Evander, I think he eventually runs dry and probably get's stopped on his feet.

[walshb]

Holyfield by late stoppage.

Silly. Toney was probably one of the most tough and resilient men in ring history with an iron chin, super defense and utter belief and confidence. No way Holyfield stops him. He may outwork him in a very competitive fight, but no way he easily beats Toney. You cannot lay a beating on Toney. He's too cute and slick and natural. This is aclose fight that I see being split 5-5 over 10 fights. Evander's aggression will play against him against the amazing counter punching and inside work of Toney.

[walshb]

Toney might have just enough defensive skill, pride and durability to last 12 with Holyfield, though I think he'd probably lose big on the cards, probably by something like 8-9 pts. In a 15 rounder with Evander, I think he eventually runs dry and probably get's stopped on his feet.

Again, a bit silly. If anything it was Toney with a better engine than Evander. Toney does not get stopped. If you really think that then you know nothing about the man, and have missed so much with him. He is probably the most difficult man in ring history to KO or stop.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

At the time I was VERY surprised Toney even got the win against a LONG WAY PAST HIS BEST Holyfield especially the stoppage when you consider
some of the HUGE puncher's Holyfield stood up too,That in it self and if you consider that Toney was never a HUGE puncher ESPECIALLY the bigger version tells a story.. Holyfield was totally shot he had no leg's, But a Holyfield v Toney clash at Cruiserweight a division Holyfield could have just about beat The GREAT Joe Louis record of 25 defence's well that would have been a VERY long night for Light's Out Toney unless of cause
Holyfield puts his Light's out early my prediction the house Doctor calls it over to save Toney from further PUNISHMENT in round 8.

[palooka]

Toney might have just enough defensive skill, pride and durability to last 12 with Holyfield, though I think he'd probably lose big on the cards, probably by something like 8-9 pts. In a 15 rounder with Evander, I think he eventually runs dry and probably get's stopped on his feet.

Again, a bit silly. If anything it was Toney with a better engine than Evander. Toney does not get stopped. If you really think that then you know nothing about the man, and have missed so much with him. He is probably the most difficult man in ring history to KO or stop.

Toney may have had better gears than Evander but no way a better engine. Holyfield was a proven 15 round bell to bell fighter, no way James would either stop him or outpoint him. They'd both be pumped full of peds, it'd be a brilliant bout.

[gregor]

Again, a bit silly. If anything it was Toney with a better engine than Evander. Toney does not get stopped. If you really think that then you know nothing about the man, and have missed so much with him. He is probably the most difficult man in ring history to KO or stop.

I think Holy just decisions him, but would not be too surprised if he wins by TKO. Toney met good punchers at SMW/LHW, but never someone close to prime Holyfield above that. I mean in terms of both skills and power, so please do not mention Rahman (good power, but shot at that time) and Peter (good power as well, but no skills at all).

[Tomasino]

Toney might have just enough defensive skill, pride and durability to last 12 with Holyfield, though I think he'd probably lose big on the cards, probably by something like 8-9 pts. In a 15 rounder with Evander, I think he eventually runs dry and probably get's stopped on his feet.

Again, a bit silly. If anything it was Toney with a better engine than Evander. Toney does not get stopped. If you really think that then you know nothing about the man, and have missed so much with him. He is probably the most difficult man in ring history to KO or stop.

Toney may have had better gears than Evander but no way a better engine. Holyfield was a proven 15 round bell to bell fighter, no way James would either stop him or outpoint him. They'd both be pumped full of peds, it'd be a brilliant bout.

[Bobbyptsd]

Toney is probably my favourite fighter of all time, but I'll have to join the Holyfield on points crowd here. As has been mentioned, I think he would have just outworked him.

I do think the stoppage suggestions are hilarious though, that's good stuff. Neither Lennox Lewis nor George Foreman would have stopped James Toney if they fought him back to back on the same night.

[walshb]

Again, a bit silly. If anything it was Toney with a better engine than Evander. Toney does not get stopped. If you really think that then you know nothing about the man, and have missed so much with him. He is probably the most difficult man in ring history to KO or stop.

I think Holy just decisions him, but would not be too surprised if he wins by TKO. Toney met good punchers at SMW/LHW, but never someone close to prime Holyfield above that. I mean in terms of both skills and power, so please do not mention Rahman (good power, but shot at that time) and Peter (good power as well, but no skills at all).

Simple: Toney is pretty much unstoppable. Sure, could be out worked or decisioned, but no way stopped. That is why he is an ATG. Toney's defense and all around cuteness will see this be a very closely fought contest, and on the inside, Toney is the winner here. Holyfield would be best served to not push this too much, and to work behind the jab and keep a bit of distance. He tries to bully Toney and blitz him and he's in for a lot of punishment on the counter attack.

People mention far too much how Holyfield was well past it in 2003, yet fail to say that Toney was also past his prime, and fighting in Evander's weight division.

[dempseyfire]

Again, a bit silly. If anything it was Toney with a better engine than Evander. Toney does not get stopped. If you really think that then you know nothing about the man, and have missed so much with him. He is probably the most difficult man in ring history to KO or stop.

I think Holy just decisions him, but would not be too surprised if he wins by TKO. Toney met good punchers at SMW/LHW, but never someone close to prime Holyfield above that. I mean in terms of both skills and power, so please do not mention Rahman (good power, but shot at that time) and Peter (good power as well, but no skills at all).

Simple: Toney is pretty much unstoppable. Sure, could be out worked or decisioned, but no way stopped. That is why he is an ATG. Toney's defense and all around cuteness will see this be a very closely fought contest, and on the inside, Toney is the winner here. Holyfield would be best served to not push this too much, and to work behind the jab and keep a bit of distance. He tries to bully Toney and blitz him and he's in for a lot of punishment on the counter attack.

People mention far too much how Holyfield was well past it in 2003, yet fail to say that Toney was also past his prime, and fighting in Evander's weight division.

You're vastly over-estimating Toney at heavyweight. He had next to little power at that weight and often got bullied and worn down on the inside by his stronger opponents. Look at the Rahman fight . . .Toney is a far superior boxer to Rahman, whose skills are pretty poor. And he ate Hasim up on the inside in the first 2-3 rounds. But Rahman, not of an iron chin by any means, ate his Sunday punches like Wheaties and kept grinding forward, digging shots to the body, and basically wore James out. The draw was bogus; I had Rahman winning 8-4.

Yes, James was in better condition vs Evander but he looked so good because Holyfield was basically a flat-footed punching bag with shot reflexes. That he was basically shut out by Byrd and Larry Donald before and after the Toney fights tell you all you need to know.

[palooka]

That's true Dempsey and I've never seen Evander beaten up so artfully and skilfully as Toney did to him, James made it look easy.

[walshb]

Dempsey, this fight is at CW. Toney at CW is a very competitive fight vs. anyone at CW, Holyfield included. Toney is just so tough and crafty, as well as skilled and fit and busy, that it can't be anything but close and competitive.

[Seamus]

Incidentally, I had McGroom beating Toney by 2 at CW. 2 judges had Toney by 2 and the other had it a draw.