Please Explain Your Scoring

[kimf]

Very interesting.
Please don't take anything personal. This is one subject we don't agree on but I'm sure there are 100's we do. Sometimes when scoring fights we need to take emotions out of it. The reason there are so many controversies in boxing is because the criterias for scoring fights are opinion based.
I believe the dela Hoya vs Mayweather fight was a lot closer than this fight which Mayweather won.
Again I don't like Mayweather or the tactics he uses to win fights but unless they change the rules he has every right to win like he does and he used those tactics to easily win this fight.

[Pureist]

watch round 6 where i put the times in and tell me then if im biased, i even slowed the slo mo down to 1/4 speed to make sure i didnt miss anything, your vid showed some punches missed by this guy for floyd but didnt show the ones he missed for pacquaio, but let me guess, thats not biased is it

[Hotspurx]

watch round 6 where i put the times in and tell me then if im biased, i even slowed the slo mo down to 1/4 speed to make sure i didnt miss anything, your vid showed some punches missed by this guy for floyd but didnt show the ones he missed for pacquaio, but let me guess, thats not biased is it

I've reviewed this thread and read 'round 2 floyd threw48 punches connected with 7, 3 were soft body rips while holding pacquaio in a clinch,pac threw 34 and landed with 7--------'. That's pretty mystifying. Round 2 is Floyd's clean.

Like you, I've watched this fight in slow-motion. What times in round 2 and 6 you referring to?

[Pureist]

Very interesting.
Please don't take anything personal. This is one subject we don't agree on but I'm sure there are 100's we do. Sometimes when scoring fights we need to take emotions out of it. The reason there are so many controversies in boxing is because the criterias for scoring fights are opinion based.
I believe the dela Hoya vs Mayweather fight was a lot closer than this fight which Mayweather won.
Again I don't like Mayweather or the tactics he uses to win fights but unless they change the rules he has every right to win like he does and he used those tactics to easily win this fight.

i dont get emotional about boxing, im a trainer, i dont actually mind floyd, i get sick of these idiots blowing smoke up his ares so i just like pointing things out to them, i scored the fight a draw, 1 round either way, no worries, but those scorecards were ridiculous, i watched the fight with my father, ex pug, best mate ex aussie title holder, they both scored it the same, very close, could go either way, floyds hands are exceptionally quick making most people think punches land when they actually dont, watching on tv can also look very different to seeing a bout live, snr obviously thought the fight was close saying to floyd "your giving this fight away" those who believe those scorecards to be true are either not very knowledgable or are lieing to themselves, notice not many of the normal floyd groupies are commenting on the video, its hard to argue when the video is broken down

[Pureist]

watch round 6 where i put the times in and tell me then if im biased, i even slowed the slo mo down to 1/4 speed to make sure i didnt miss anything, your vid showed some punches missed by this guy for floyd but didnt show the ones he missed for pacquaio, but let me guess, thats not biased is it

I've reviewed this thread and read 'round 2 floyd threw48 punches connected with 7, 3 were soft body rips while holding pacquaio in a clinch,pac threw 34 and landed with 7--------'. That's pretty mystifying. Round 2 is Floyd's clean.

Like you, I've watched this fight in slow-motion. What times in round 2 and 6 you referring to?

i will continue this tomorrow, its bedtime in the land down under

[Ricky_]

watch round 6 where i put the times in and tell me then if im biased, i even slowed the slo mo down to 1/4 speed to make sure i didnt miss anything, your vid showed some punches missed by this guy for floyd but didnt show the ones he missed for pacquaio, but let me guess, thats not biased is it

I've reviewed this thread and read 'round 2 floyd threw48 punches connected with 7, 3 were soft body rips while holding pacquaio in a clinch,pac threw 34 and landed with 7--------'. That's pretty mystifying. Round 2 is Floyd's clean.

Like you, I've watched this fight in slow-motion. What times in round 2 and 6 you referring to?

i will continue this tomorrow, its bedtime in the land down under

When your finished, post your final punch stats for the whole fight

[jamesmcdonnell]

http://youtu.be/x-OsGL1aRIA. Summary, also does each round in slomo with punch counter at bottom of screen

Pureist, that video is a crock of crap. Review his score of Rounds 3 & 8 for example.

This video highlights them -- https://youtu.be/KUFjne0h8wQ

just did, that straight to the body should have been counted, that flurry that he showed wasnt even in either of those 2 rounds, a couple of punches should have been added for both fighters and that hook of floyds hit on the back and side of pacquaios neck, not scoring, a couple hit on the top of pacquaios head, not scoring

Since when do shots to the top of the head not count? Shots to anywhere in the head, except the back of the head - rabbit punches, are legal scoring shots.

[KBB]

Fight is over, Manny LOST!!

Sore ass losers still going on and on about his; it's like y'all are the Energizer Bunnies of Losers. Y'all just keep going and going and going.

[Ricky_]

Since when do shots to the top of the head not count? Shots to anywhere in the head, except the back of the head - rabbit punches, are legal scoring shots.

IS there anywhere that defines what constitutes the back of the head? I remember the controversy when Golovkin knocked out Rubio with a shot to the top of the head. I remember reading that you imagine splitting the heat in half vertically, just behind the ears, so the face, front neck, ears are al legal, anything behind that isn't. A shot to the top of the head is probably going to be 50/50, if the knuckle makes contact with the crown part of the skull i'd say that was illegal.

[koolkc107]

Anyone who wants to score the fight for themselves in slow mo can pull up the fight on youtube.

They have controls where you can watch half-speed, quarter speed etc.

I did this and found Compubox accurate for this fight, although I readily concede that is not always the case.

Punches landed on the back of the head do not count; punches landed on the gloves and arms are considered blocked and don't count; punches landed on the back or below the belt don't count.

I can only assume that those getting different numbers from Compubox in this fight are mistakenly counting some of these kinds of punches in their totals.

[Hotspurx]

Since when do shots to the top of the head not count? Shots to anywhere in the head, except the back of the head - rabbit punches, are legal scoring shots.

IS there anywhere that defines what constitutes the back of the head? I remember the controversy when Golovkin knocked out Rubio with a shot to the top of the head. I remember reading that you imagine splitting the heat in half vertically, just behind the ears, so the face, front neck, ears are al legal, anything behind that isn't. A shot to the top of the head is probably going to be 50/50, if the knuckle makes contact with the crown part of the skull i'd say that was illegal.

Good question. My definition tends to be any shots on or behind the ears. BoxRec's definition doesn't offer much clarity --

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Rules_of_Boxing

[jamesmcdonnell]

Since when do shots to the top of the head not count? Shots to anywhere in the head, except the back of the head - rabbit punches, are legal scoring shots.

IS there anywhere that defines what constitutes the back of the head? I remember the controversy when Golovkin knocked out Rubio with a shot to the top of the head. I remember reading that you imagine splitting the heat in half vertically, just behind the ears, so the face, front neck, ears are al legal, anything behind that isn't. A shot to the top of the head is probably going to be 50/50, if the knuckle makes contact with the crown part of the skull i'd say that was illegal.

Good question. My definition tends to be any shots on or behind the ears. BoxRec's definition doesn't offer much clarity --

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Rules_of_Boxing

I would have thought it obvious really, it's the back half of the head, anything behind the ears pretty much equates to the same thing.

The top of the head - to me suggests the top of the forehead which is most certainly legal.

In reality in the heat of the fight, it's not so easy for the judges to see precisely where the knuckle part of the glove lands, and so watching fights in super slow motion is really kind of missing the point.

[Ricky_]

I would have thought it obvious really, it's the back half of the head, anything behind the ears pretty much equates to the same thing.

The top of the head - to me suggests the top of the forehead which is most certainly legal.

In reality in the heat of the fight, it's not so easy for the judges to see precisely where the knuckle part of the glove lands, and so watching fights in super slow motion is really kind of missing the point.

Well all the replays and discussion could be deemed pointless as it won't change anythign but in 1 of the slowmo youtube videos 1 video author bemoans that a punch landed by Floyd wasn't counted in unofficial punchstats showing Pac landing more. The punch in question is straight to the top of Pacquaio's scalp. It's a clear punch that lands, I can only imagine it wasn't counted because the author deemed it illegal. The knuckle part of the glove looks to be on the back half of Pacquiao's head, near the crown. It's a grey area.

[Hotspurx]

I would have thought it obvious really, it's the back half of the head, anything behind the ears pretty much equates to the same thing.

The top of the head - to me suggests the top of the forehead which is most certainly legal.

In reality in the heat of the fight, it's not so easy for the judges to see precisely where the knuckle part of the glove lands, and so watching fights in super slow motion is really kind of missing the point.

Well all the replays and discussion could be deemed pointless as it won't change anythign but in 1 of the slowmo youtube videos 1 video author bemoans that a punch landed by Floyd wasn't counted in unofficial punchstats showing Pac landing more. The punch in question is straight to the top of Pacquaio's scalp. It's a clear punch that lands, I can only imagine it wasn't counted because the author deemed it illegal. The knuckle part of the glove looks to be on the back half of Pacquiao's head, near the crown. It's a grey area.

Unfortunately, it's not pointless. Manny Pacquiao's team posted a viral video challenging the result to his Facebook page -- It now has over 500,000 views. So, it's clear Pacquiao's team are trying to re-write history. That dopey video was posted on May 12th --

https://www.facebook.com/MannyPacquiao?fref=ts

I'm tired of Pacquiao's team acting like bitches. It's frustrating that Mayweather isn't receiving his due for nullifying Pacquiao.

[Ricky_]

I would have thought it obvious really, it's the back half of the head, anything behind the ears pretty much equates to the same thing.

The top of the head - to me suggests the top of the forehead which is most certainly legal.

In reality in the heat of the fight, it's not so easy for the judges to see precisely where the knuckle part of the glove lands, and so watching fights in super slow motion is really kind of missing the point.

Well all the replays and discussion could be deemed pointless as it won't change anythign but in 1 of the slowmo youtube videos 1 video author bemoans that a punch landed by Floyd wasn't counted in unofficial punchstats showing Pac landing more. The punch in question is straight to the top of Pacquaio's scalp. It's a clear punch that lands, I can only imagine it wasn't counted because the author deemed it illegal. The knuckle part of the glove looks to be on the back half of Pacquiao's head, near the crown. It's a grey area.

Unfortunately, it's not pointless. Manny Pacquiao's team posted a viral video challenging the result to his Facebook page -- It now has over 500,000 views. So, it's clear Pacquiao's team are trying to re-write history. That dopey video was posted on May 12th --

https://www.facebook.com/MannyPacquiao?fref=ts

I'm tired of Pacquiao's team acting like bitches. It's frustrating that Mayweather isn't receiving his due for nullifying Pacquiao.

'm tired of people blowing smoke up Floyd's arse because he is able to "nullify" fights, starving a fight of action isn't enough to win rounds yourself. For every second of a round where nothing happens by default seems to go to Floyd, it stinks. Neither guy was able to land a significant shot (floyd didn't even try to land one), so what you're left with is an actionless bout with fans tallying up gloves landed like it were an amateur fight.

[Hotspurx]

I'm tired of people blowing smoke up Floyd's arse because he is able to "nullify" fights, starving a fight of action isn't enough to win rounds yourself. For every second of a round where nothing happens by default seems to go to Floyd, it stinks. Neither guy was able to land a significant shot (floyd didn't even try to land one), so what you're left with is an actionless bout with fans tallying up gloves landed like it were an amateur fight.

Well, Ricky. This is an obvious response.

Fairweather fans aren't happy unless they witness real damage. Personally, I love the craft. I loved watching Floyd re-set his feet every time Pac tried to close the range. He pivots off the ropes with a left hook or ducks and rolls to his right.

Mayweather landed multiple right hand leads to the body and head. In my view, he should have exerted his jab more.

For Pacquiao's part, he was unwilling to throw his jab because he'd get countered all night long. Meanwhile he was never able to effectively close the range. After the bout he clung to excuses. He should have lost with honour.

Finally, for those who talk of 'Ring Generalship' we can say that Mayweather fought as he often does. On the back foot stealing points all the way. Meanwhile Pacquiao was frustrated. Mayweather controlled the pace of the fight and suffered nothing but a fat lip for his troubles.

And not that I want to labour this point, but I'll raise it anyway. As Teddy Atlas, Malignaggi and the Mayweather's have alluded to; A drug tested Pacquiao isn't very dangerous is he? Roach accused Marquez, so I'm just being fair here ...

[Ricky_]

As good as Floyd's defence is, it accounts for 25% of scoring criteria (or at least it should). & he's Dangerous enough for Floyd to get on his bike. Pacquiao carries as much power as he always did, he lacks speed and stamina from his prime, unsurprising for a 36 year old to have climbed 8 or so weight classes, don't you think?

[Hotspurx]

As good as Floyd's defence is, it accounts for 25% of scoring criteria (or at least it should). & he's Dangerous enough for Floyd to get on his bike. Pacquiao carries as much power as he always did, he lacks speed and stamina from his prime, unsurprising for a 36 year old to have climbed 8 or so weight classes, don't you think?

Pacquiao carries as much power as he always did? No, I don't agree. And I think it's surprising that he's carried, infact dramatically increased, his power as he's risen through the weight divisions. That power has diminished in recent years though.

I think steroids are rife in professional Boxing. So I'm not just being harsh on Pacquiao here.

BTW, I read your Roger Mayweather thread. I'd like to see a re-match too. In an ideal world, Mayweather would fight Khan and Pacquiao would face Marquez before meeting again. The latter bout is unlikely to happen but a clean win would regenerate interest.

[man]

Very interesting.
Please don't take anything personal. This is one subject we don't agree on but I'm sure there are 100's we do. Sometimes when scoring fights we need to take emotions out of it. The reason there are so many controversies in boxing is because the criterias for scoring fights are opinion based.
I believe the dela Hoya vs Mayweather fight was a lot closer than this fight which Mayweather won.
Again I don't like Mayweather or the tactics he uses to win fights but unless they change the rules he has every right to win like he does and he used those tactics to easily win this fight.

i dont get emotional about boxing, im a trainer, i dont actually mind floyd, i get sick of these idiots blowing smoke up his ares so i just like pointing things out to them, i scored the fight a draw, 1 round either way, no worries, but those scorecards were ridiculous, i watched the fight with my father, ex pug, best mate ex aussie title holder, they both scored it the same, very close, could go either way, floyds hands are exceptionally quick making most people think punches land when they actually dont, watching on tv can also look very different to seeing a bout live, snr obviously thought the fight was close saying to floyd "your giving this fight away" those who believe those scorecards to be true are either not very knowledgable or are lieing to themselves, notice not many of the normal floyd groupies are commenting on the video, its hard to argue when the video is broken down

thank you. exactly what i felt. close, either
way. i thought floyd was exceptional in his
anticipation very early on, but then it was
very close, since hardly anything meaningful
happened. i had it even after six and thought
manny should have stepped it up in the last
two, especially in the 12th, where i would
have advised him - had i been in his corner -
to take more risk.

[KBB]

I'm tired of people blowing smoke up Floyd's arse because he is able to "nullify" fights, starving a fight of action isn't enough to win rounds yourself. For every second of a round where nothing happens by default seems to go to Floyd, it stinks. Neither guy was able to land a significant shot (floyd didn't even try to land one), so what you're left with is an actionless bout with fans tallying up gloves landed like it were an amateur fight.

Well, Ricky. This is an obvious response.

Fairweather fans aren't happy unless they witness real damage. Personally, I love the craft. I loved watching Floyd re-set his feet every time Pac tried to close the range. He pivots off the ropes with a left hook or ducks and rolls to his right.

Mayweather landed multiple right hand leads to the body and head. In my view, he should have exerted his jab more.

For Pacquiao's part, he was unwilling to throw his jab because he'd get countered all night long. Meanwhile he was never able to effectively close the range. After the bout he clung to excuses. He should have lost with honour.

Finally, for those who talk of 'Ring Generalship' we can say that Mayweather fought as he often does. On the back foot stealing points all the way. Meanwhile Pacquiao was frustrated. Mayweather controlled the pace of the fight and suffered nothing but a fat lip for his troubles.

And not that I want to labour this point, but I'll raise it anyway. As Teddy Atlas, Malignaggi and the Mayweather's have alluded to; A drug tested Pacquiao isn't very dangerous is he? Roach accused Marquez, so I'm just being fair here ...

Outstanding breakdown and logic. Don't forget that Manny didn't show he knew any of the very basic essentials in boxing, one of the first things you learn in this sport is how to parry a jab, did we ever see Manny once parry any of Floyd's jabs??

Another one of the very basic fundamentals we never saw Manny execute is how to properly cut off the ring, it was like watching someone who had never boxed a day in his life from what I was seeing and this is the guy who has the 7 time Trainer of the Year.

WTF has he been teaching Manny? It's like I said all along about Roach, he isn't a good Trainer at all; he just made his bones off of fighters who came to him with winning records. Toney and Oscar had more fights and more KO's than Cockroach had fights, Packy was already doing ok as a fighter when Roachy got him so other than adding a right hook I see nothing so great that Roachworm has done.

[FloydtheDuck]

Have said it dozens of times

Boxing is great cause you don't have to rely on judges if you do job and finish your opponent

Any fighter who lets the fight go the distance , will always be susceptible to human bias and or error

I think judges got the fight correct. I had it 7-4-1 floyd, but I'm ok with the cards

Manny trying persuade people with video after the fact is beyond dumb , take the loss and move on

I don't care to watch the fight again a regular speed , let alone slowing it down

It was downright boring the first time. Why waste anymore time

[Bobbyptsd]

I seriously wonder how much of a sadist one has to be to watch that in slow motion.

I mean, boxing matches in slow motion in general would be painful, but it takes a special brand of person to say: "I'm going to watch that slowed down drastically, I couldn't be doing anything else."

[Pureist]

[quote="Pureist

http://youtu.be/x-OsGL1aRIA. Summary, also does each round in slomo with punch counter at bottom of screen

Pureist, that video is a crock of crap. Review his score of Rounds 3 & 8 for example.

This video highlights them -- https://youtu.be/KUFjne0h8wQ

just did, that straight to the body should have been counted, that flurry that he showed wasnt even in either of those 2 rounds, a couple of punches should have been added for both fighters and that hook of floyds hit on the back and side of pacquaios neck, not scoring, a couple hit on the top of pacquaios head, not scoring[/quote]

Since when do shots to the top of the head not count? Shots to anywhere in the head, except the back of the head - rabbit punches, are legal scoring shots.[/quote]
He was rolling under hooks, thus the back of your head becomes the top of your head

[jamesmcdonnell]

[quote="Pureist

http://youtu.be/x-OsGL1aRIA. Summary, also does each round in slomo with punch counter at bottom of screen

Pureist, that video is a crock of crap. Review his score of Rounds 3 & 8 for example.

This video highlights them -- https://youtu.be/KUFjne0h8wQ

just did, that straight to the body should have been counted, that flurry that he showed wasnt even in either of those 2 rounds, a couple of punches should have been added for both fighters and that hook of floyds hit on the back and side of pacquaios neck, not scoring, a couple hit on the top of pacquaios head, not scoring

Since when do shots to the top of the head not count? Shots to anywhere in the head, except the back of the head - rabbit punches, are legal scoring shots.[/quote]
He was rolling under hooks, thus the back of your head becomes the top of your head[/quote]

Ok, that's another matter, you didn't make clear what you meant.

[Pureist]

III. SCORING ZONE
Every judge should be aware of the scoring zone. The method for establishing the scoring zone starts at the top center of the head, with an imaginary line continuing down the sides of the head through the ears, down to and including the shoulders to the naval and hipbones. Caution should be taken in using the beltline, due to boxers keeping the trunks high above the navel. Any punch delivered outside of the scoring zone should not be considered when scoring the bout.
The test to measure the awarding of points for “offensive boxing” should be the number of direct, clean punches delivered with the knuckle part of the closed glove on any part of the scoring zone of the opponent’s body above the belt line. The judges should also consider the effect of blows received versus the number of punches delivered. Punches that are blocked or deflected should not be considered in tabulating your score. Blocked or deflected punches that land foul are not to be considered fouls in the awarding of points at the end of the round.
In most cases the arms are considered defensive weapons. However, judges must take into consideration the shoulders of a boxer as being in the scoring zone. Just for anyone wondering