Primo Carnera vs. Leon Spinks
Primo Carnera vs. Leon Spinks
Who would you have picked?
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sockdolager
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1455
- Joined: 17 Jun 2005, 08:57
I'm glad to see there would be plenty of money for me to collect on this one when Spinks knocks the big guy down 5 times along the way before putting him out for good sometime in the mid rounds.
Look this guy's "revival" from younger fans is unwarranted. He was a joke he had one honest lucky punch in his life against Sharkey and that's his whole story. Talk about an enigma, He really did put Sharkey away and that probably could only happen once in a thousand tries, and only because Sharkey had zero respect and did not think for a second he needed to worry about defense with the guy. And this is what most everybody bases Carnera's "crediblity" on. Talk about a gift that keeps on giving. The believable sportrwriters in that era who watched him, speak in a single voice about this guys genuine haplessness.
He was, is, and will always be the least formidable "Heavyweight Champion of the World" and that probably includes all the little bogus belt holders in the last 20 years.
This resurgence of credibility is nothing more than sentimental hog snot for the "old days". People looking back through a "soft lens" and trying to ascribe abilities on a guy who just did not genuinely have these abilitites.
But for the worshippers of Sharkey they have to give Carnera something to keep Sharkey looking good in the history books. And Sharkey had it coming to him for his own "loose lease" on the truth. Sharkey was not all that bad but he was corrupt in a worse way than Carnera. He actually HAD some talent and chose his path. At least Primo was purely a patsy.
Capiche?
Look this guy's "revival" from younger fans is unwarranted. He was a joke he had one honest lucky punch in his life against Sharkey and that's his whole story. Talk about an enigma, He really did put Sharkey away and that probably could only happen once in a thousand tries, and only because Sharkey had zero respect and did not think for a second he needed to worry about defense with the guy. And this is what most everybody bases Carnera's "crediblity" on. Talk about a gift that keeps on giving. The believable sportrwriters in that era who watched him, speak in a single voice about this guys genuine haplessness.
He was, is, and will always be the least formidable "Heavyweight Champion of the World" and that probably includes all the little bogus belt holders in the last 20 years.
This resurgence of credibility is nothing more than sentimental hog snot for the "old days". People looking back through a "soft lens" and trying to ascribe abilities on a guy who just did not genuinely have these abilitites.
But for the worshippers of Sharkey they have to give Carnera something to keep Sharkey looking good in the history books. And Sharkey had it coming to him for his own "loose lease" on the truth. Sharkey was not all that bad but he was corrupt in a worse way than Carnera. He actually HAD some talent and chose his path. At least Primo was purely a patsy.
Capiche?
..boxbuzz always saves me so much work when it comes to carnera.
the guy i'd really have respect for in this match would be anyone who could sell tickets to it.
spinks ranks very low on the roster of heavyweight champions, but carnera is stashed there at the bottom, his strong shoulders holding up the roster.
the guy i'd really have respect for in this match would be anyone who could sell tickets to it.
spinks ranks very low on the roster of heavyweight champions, but carnera is stashed there at the bottom, his strong shoulders holding up the roster.
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5534
- Joined: 29 Oct 2003, 22:56
You knowm I re-watched Baer-Carnera last night, and Primo is SEVERELY under-rated by many, including folks like boxbuzz. He had excellent stamina for a man his size, was pretty athletic, good jab which he doubled and tripled up on sometimes, strong uppercut, and he actually threw better combinations then Vitali ever did. Besides the first 4 rounds and the last two, Carnera actually outboxes Max much easier then Schmeling did, and looks good doing it too. He also had heart, as he came back from the knockdowns to stalk Baer and he had some pretty big exchanges with him too. If Carnera had possessed real power in his right hand, he would've held the title until Louis.
Suffice to say, I like the big Italian in this matchup.
Suffice to say, I like the big Italian in this matchup.
Last edited by dempseyfire on 16 Jan 2006, 14:10, edited 2 times in total.
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
Of course I have to defend the Ambling Alp.
Actually Carnera did have some decent wins besides the one over Sharkey. He also beat Ernie Schaaf and Paulino Uzcudun who were top contenders at the time.
He also beat some of the B level fights of era, such as King Levinsky,Walter Nuesal,Jim Maloney, and Bearcat Wright.
Besides Ali, spinks really didn't do much. Mercado and Evangelista was his biggest win.
Carnera also lost lessoften to journeyman than Spinks.
When Spinks was at this best he was aggressive and maybe he could jump on Carnera and do damage. However, he was also reckless and not that difficult to hit.
Both were capable of hurting each other if they landed. However, Carnera had a huge height and reach advantage. His should have some success keeping Spinks at bay with his jab.
I'm going with Carnera in this matchup of two of the worst heavyweight champions.
Actually Carnera did have some decent wins besides the one over Sharkey. He also beat Ernie Schaaf and Paulino Uzcudun who were top contenders at the time.
He also beat some of the B level fights of era, such as King Levinsky,Walter Nuesal,Jim Maloney, and Bearcat Wright.
Besides Ali, spinks really didn't do much. Mercado and Evangelista was his biggest win.
Carnera also lost lessoften to journeyman than Spinks.
When Spinks was at this best he was aggressive and maybe he could jump on Carnera and do damage. However, he was also reckless and not that difficult to hit.
Both were capable of hurting each other if they landed. However, Carnera had a huge height and reach advantage. His should have some success keeping Spinks at bay with his jab.
I'm going with Carnera in this matchup of two of the worst heavyweight champions.
I would never believe anything an estranged tells. Don't know the circumstances of this "former", but to be honest I'd wouldn't believe a thing he wrote, regardless of whether he was a swell guy or a rat. I know some of Carnera's fights were fixed, and that's all I need to know to judge him as a fighter.Decagon wrote:Someone involved with one of Carnera's managers wrote a book about the Alp, and at the end, it had a Carnera's record, with an asterix next to the fixed bouts. It was more than half of them.
On the orginal subject, I'd go with Carnera. Carnera was an "okay" fighter, while Spinks did have talent, he was a total bust as a pro. If Carnera can have the word great attached to his name in any way, it was his heart. He works harder for a unanimous decision.
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
First of all, it should be noted that it now seems almost certain that Carnera himself wasn't aware of the fixes until after they occurred. Most of them were in his early years when on his way up.
Most of the opponents weren't that good and he would have won anyway. what would happen is that the people maing sure that the opponent was laying down were concerned that Carnera would knockout his opponent before what whatever the line was for that particular fight. ie - He needed to knockout a guy before say the 5th round, his opponent would go down before that.
However, Carnera did develop into a decent albiet limited fighter. Most of big wins were legit. Most of them went several rounds. It's much harder to fake a fight for several rounds. For example Ucuzdun lost to Carnera twice on decisions, and Schaaf was knocked out in the 13 th round and tragically died. There is no question that these fights were legit.
To sum it up, if all of his fights were legit, he probably would have had a similar record to what he wound up with.
He probably had enough ability to beat Leon Spinks. Spinks had more natural ability and would have a better career with better management, but that's another story.
Most of the opponents weren't that good and he would have won anyway. what would happen is that the people maing sure that the opponent was laying down were concerned that Carnera would knockout his opponent before what whatever the line was for that particular fight. ie - He needed to knockout a guy before say the 5th round, his opponent would go down before that.
However, Carnera did develop into a decent albiet limited fighter. Most of big wins were legit. Most of them went several rounds. It's much harder to fake a fight for several rounds. For example Ucuzdun lost to Carnera twice on decisions, and Schaaf was knocked out in the 13 th round and tragically died. There is no question that these fights were legit.
To sum it up, if all of his fights were legit, he probably would have had a similar record to what he wound up with.
He probably had enough ability to beat Leon Spinks. Spinks had more natural ability and would have a better career with better management, but that's another story.
..joe louis said carnera "didn'ty have much...fair left jab but that was it."
stamina..yes....courage..yes....talent...no. the only reason he won those rounds against baer is that maxie was in his usual no stamina...did no training condition and he had to take them off. to be fair to primo..it was primo's getting up each time he was down that took the fight into the later rounds. as i said...courage..stamina...that's it.
stamina..yes....courage..yes....talent...no. the only reason he won those rounds against baer is that maxie was in his usual no stamina...did no training condition and he had to take them off. to be fair to primo..it was primo's getting up each time he was down that took the fight into the later rounds. as i said...courage..stamina...that's it.
I have this book with the same record I assume you mention.Decagon wrote:Someone involved with one of Carnera's managers wrote a book about the Alp, and at the end, it had a Carnera's record, with an asterix next to the fixed bouts. It was more than half of them.
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/18 ... ZZZZZZ.jpg
