Cooper/Ali(Clay)

[evrenb]

I have transcribed the audio of the film...i have broken it down into ten second groupings...
The film is not big fights edited version ..there is no splicing of the film..the audio does not break at anytime. The film has no modern day logos.

0-10 seconds

Down on the bell...the bell has sounded and he's up at about three clay. That was the end of the fourth round and he hit him about two seconds before..

11-20 seconds

..the end of the round...with a left hook. Clay took one chance too many...and he still doesnt know where he is. He's still half out Clay..they're working..

21 - 30 seconds

..furiously on him in the corner. Angelo Dundee his trainer..he really is giving him a talking to. Coopers left hook finally scores and Clay was down..

31-40 seconds

..two seconds from the end of the fourth round..and got up just after the bell and he doesnt know where he is and he's looking at his corner....and...

41-50 seconds

..something extraordinary has happened because referee Tommy Little has gone over to the time keeper to ask something...(48-52 no commentary just crowd noise)

51-60

Tommy Little has gone to Clays corner now to talk to them.....and I think Clays got a torn glove....

61 - 62 no commentary...

63 seconds (seconds out) well now it seems to be alrights

65-66 seconds....bell rings..

No break in audio at any point...

Commentary by harry carpenter....


Evren

[evrenb]

No matter how you 'slice it'.

In June 1963, Henry Cooper was within 'flash-second' of 'Knocking Out' Cassius Clay.

Again, 'Lucky Clay'

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Caractacus]

Hey,I did not see any evidence on the BBC TV&Radio page
that the first Cassius Clay vs Henry Cooper bout (18.July.1963 was ever shown on the BBC
(Not until 1984 anyway at least according to the web page there.)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/

So was the first bout ever shown live on either televion or closed circuit there in the U.K perhaps ?
If so ,then where is the evidence to support this?
or are they still working on listings on the web site there in your opinion?
thank you

[evrenb]

Hey,I did not see any evidence on the BBC TV&Radio page
that the first Cassius Clay vs Henry Cooper bout (18.July.1963 was ever shown on the BBC
(Not until 1984 anyway at least according to the web page there.)

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/

So was the first bout ever shown live on either televion or closed circuit there in the U.K perhaps ?
If so ,then where is the evidence to support this?
or are they still working on listings on the web site there in your opinion?
thank you

I would say the list far from complete. As harry Carpenter commentated Im certain it was shown on BBC...if you see that website doesn't show a lot of the earlier footage listed...

[evrenb]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/16985467

[Caractacus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/16985467

Sir, Do you take me for a fool?
That link is to an article from February 2012 not July 1963 so it doesnt count as primary evidence.
and what year was Steve Pundit born anyway?
so how the bloody 'ell would he have of knowing if it did or didnt happen?

However as im not of a rigid mindset as some of the posters I still keep an open mind.
perhaps the BBC TV&Radio page only goes back to the year 1964 as of yet
and perhaps they may add earlier listings.
BTW Does anyone know which fight it was that was first broadcast by the BBC?

[ThatOne]

I read All was given a half hour respite, seriously...

[evrenb]

http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/light/1963-06-18

[Caractacus]

Sir,
your link leads to nuthin.
(However that show on Ned Kelly looked fairly interesting).

However I do think it would be of interest to perhaps see a (compleat) video-tape of
that one show listed
that originally aired on BBC TWO
20.February.1984
A FIGHT TO REMEMBER

written and hosted by Harry Carpenter

Because that would have been shown on the telly just almost 21 years after the actual fight
Back when it was still wihtin living memory of some who had seen it at ringside.
Would you have a copy of this show?(minus any video-tape edits since then done by any boxing revisionists of course
who may have not liked what they had seen)

I for one,would very much like to see this documentery.
Someone please down-load it onto youtube.

[yancey]

I read All was given a half hour respite, seriously...

Two weeks, actually.

[yancey]

As sad as it is I think trollduce has had this dream more than Cooper has.

Each dream more erotic than the next...

At times, the Duce could be an entertaining and funny poster.

Some of you guys take this stuff too seriously.

[evrenb]

As sad as it is I think trollduce has had this dream more than Cooper has.

Each dream more erotic than the next...

At times, the Duce could be an entertaining and funny poster.

Some of you guys take this stuff too seriously.

Yance - not sure if you have seen but the Live Broadcast of Frazier vs Manuel Ramos is uop on Youtube - it really is excellent and runs about 30 minutes - enjoy

[Caractacus]

I read All was given a half hour respite, seriously...

Surely you exagerrate.
Its was not over a second of 22 minutes.

[yancey]

At times, the Duce could be an entertaining and funny poster.

Some of you guys take this stuff too seriously.[/quote]




Yance - not sure if you have seen but the Live Broadcast of Frazier vs Manuel Ramos is uop on Youtube - it really is excellent and runs about 30 minutes - enjoy [/quote]





Frazier-Ramos.....my favorite Smoke fight.

[Caractacus]

Sir,
your link leads to nuthin.
(However that show on Ned Kelly looked fairly interesting).

However I do think it would be of interest to perhaps see a (compleat) video-tape of
that one show listed
that originally aired on BBC TWO
20.February.1984
A FIGHT TO REMEMBER

written and hosted by Harry Carpenter

Because that would have been shown on the telly just almost 21 years after the actual fight
Back when it was still wihtin living memory of some who had seen it at ringside.
Would you have a copy of this show?

The reason I had arsked,
is because it would be interesting if in reading the end credits of this particular programme.
it says something like,

"Clay vrs Cooper fight footage courtesy of Big Fights Inc.

[ThatOne]

I was always defended the Ducer and the Granner's right to post but the Ducer fabricating quotes is a bannable offense I guess.

[BoxBuzz]

I always want to find out where the exaggerating begins with myths like this.


I see a quote in a few articles from the day that use the wording "which resulted in a TWO MINUTE DELAY".....

So this is where the famous lie began on a microcosmic scale. And within certain journalistic parameters this is not a lie. Just a "method of reporting" which is rather sloppy considering the context.

66 seconds....which is the precise timing of the delay including the 60 seconds of the scheduled break between rounds...(is there a need to break this down to nanoseconds? No.) CAN be called "two minutes" since it does soak up 6 seconds of a "second" minute. But lordy what confusion it has caused.

I think in the minds eye of many, this meant. The scheduled break between rounds was over....and then they worked this out for an additional 2 minutes beyond that. That's the honest take by some of the room temp IQ'ers.

It's just fantasy nonsense that some folks want to believe. And they do little harm by believing it. However...it does little to change the measurable facts of the matter.

[Caractacus]

I always want to find out where the exaggerating begins with myths like this.


I see a quote in a few articles from the day that use the wording "which resulted in a TWO MINUTE DELAY".....

So this is where the famous lie began on a microcosmic scale. And within certain journalistic parameters this is not a lie. Just a "method of reporting" which is rather sloppy considering the context.

66 seconds....which is the precise timing of the delay including the 60 seconds of the scheduled break between rounds...(is there a need to break this down to nanoseconds? No.) CAN be called "two minutes" since it does soak up 6 seconds of a "second" minute. But lordy what confusion it has caused.

I think in the minds eye of many, this meant. The scheduled break between rounds was over....and then they worked this out for an additional 2 minutes beyond that. That's the honest take by some of the room temp IQ'ers.

It's just fantasy nonsense that some folks want to believe. And they do little harm by believing it. However...it does little to change the measurable facts of the matter.

Hey,it would appear that you and some of the other more vocferious posters here on this forum are the ones living in Fantasy Land and in DeNial(which isnt just a river in Egypt).
How about listing your sources for all of these the quotes that you refer to and whom had made them?
(also the hyper-links if possible)
Are any of these quotes from before the year 2000?
Enquiring minds want to know,you know?

[BoxBuzz]

I always want to find out where the exaggerating begins with myths like this.


I see a quote in a few articles from the day that use the wording "which resulted in a TWO MINUTE DELAY".....

So this is where the famous lie began on a microcosmic scale. And within certain journalistic parameters this is not a lie. Just a "method of reporting" which is rather sloppy considering the context.

66 seconds....which is the precise timing of the delay including the 60 seconds of the scheduled break between rounds...(is there a need to break this down to nanoseconds? No.) CAN be called "two minutes" since it does soak up 6 seconds of a "second" minute. But lordy what confusion it has caused.

I think in the minds eye of many, this meant. The scheduled break between rounds was over....and then they worked this out for an additional 2 minutes beyond that. That's the honest take by some of the room temp IQ'ers.

It's just fantasy nonsense that some folks want to believe. And they do little harm by believing it. However...it does little to change the measurable facts of the matter.

Hey,it would appear that you and some of the other more vocferious posters here on this forum are the ones living in Fantasy Land and in DeNial(which isnt just a river in Egypt).
How about listing your sources for all of these the quotes that you refer to and whom had made them?
(also the hyper-links if possible)
Are any of these quotes from before the year 2000?
Enquiring minds want to know,you know?

Nah, I'm a fiction writer. Just seein' if I could sneak one past you by presenting truths, and trying to pass them off as facts.

But it's clear that you get up too early in the afternoon for me.

So...in the spirit of fun... which this is for me.....please post something that empirically supports the lengthy delay of the bout in question.

Since it doesn't exist....it should keep you busy for some time to come.

Although....in a world of photoshop.....and considering the passion this stirs.....I'm sure some "new found footage" is well on it's way into the public domain.

[BoxBuzz]

It occurs to me.....

the only "quote" I happened to have discussed in my short contribution...is one that can indeed by discovered by clicking the hyperlinks found in this thread.

So....that's my best answer on that specific jab you shot my way.

[Caractacus]

Go read the rather excellent book,
ONLY THE RING WAS SQUARE
written by Teddy Brenner,
the famous matchmaker of Madison Square Garden.
"Long regarded as the most astute matchmaker in the boxing buisness".
Well.Mr Brenner was sitting ringside at that particular fight in Wembley stadium in 1963(seated right next to Liz and Dick,in the front row,natch)
He writes in the book that Muhammad Ali ,

"had an extra rest of maybe four minutes", between rounds.

(pp 84-85).

Hey,this bloke was absoutely right.
I just finsied reading that particular book the other week at the library
and it indeed reads that on pages 84 and 85.
So then, would you please list your source that would refute Mr. Teddy Brenner's observation at ringside,
and would you please also list your particular source and their credentials as well please,
as Mr. Brenner's are absoultely irefutable..

[Caractacus]

So what did Harry Carpenter have to say about this anyway?
and when?
perhaps he had forgotten some things over the years.

[BoxBuzz]

Well Caracatus.....the following was written...so it must be true.

I like the writers style.


Suddenly, things started getting very fishy. Ali was literally stunned. He was so completely out of it that there was no way he could survive round five. So his trainer, Angelo Dundee, decided to get creative. He quickly tore Ali’s glove, rendering it useless. When he showed the rip to the ref, he was told to get Ali a new pair of gloves, buying the fighter time to recover. There’s debate over how many minutes passed between rounds four and five, but regardless, it was enough for Ali to renew his spirits. His newfound energy also probably had something to do with the smelling salts Dundee shoved under his nose, an illegal move in England, where rules forbade all stimulants except for water.

[evrenb]

So what did Harry Carpenter have to say about this anyway?
and when?
perhaps he had forgotten some things over the years.

Interesting that I just got hold of 'A fight to remember' an excellent BBC presentation written and produced (and presented ) by Harry Carpenter. It is a 30 minute documentary that re visits the Clay vs cooper fight...at the end of the programme Carpenter addresses the break between round 4 and 5 and states that we timed it and it was 65 seconds. This programme was produced and aired in 1984.

evrenb

[Controversial]

Not this again !!!