Do Brits(and an Irishman )own the Super Middleweight division?

[handsofstone]

Benn,Eubank,Collins,Catley,Woodhall,Reid,Calzaghe,Froch,DeGale, 9 fighters apologies if I've missed anyone

Benn and Eubank despite seeing better days rule the new division they both lose twice to Collins then he is champ,retires rather than fight an unbeaten, untested and unknown Calzaghe who wins the title and becomes a great,then Joe moves up rather than fight fight an unknown Froch who becomes a great and arguably the best fighter from this country,certainly when it comes to CV's,then Froch understandably avoids DeGale who's now world champ,

The pattern continues, Smith fights No1 Ward,Groves fights Jack and we have Callum

Some of those earlier guys are before my time so correct me if I'm wrong

Also have I missed anyone? Either way we rule the SMW division and 12 stone is the average weight for a brit

[davie]

It's certainly a division we have done well in and continue to do well in.

Although, when you say "Froch who becomes a great and arguably the best fighter from this country", I'd agree with the arguably bit

no matter who appears on the respective fighters CV, Joe beats Froch, Joe is better than Froch and Joe would have done as well, if not better against the same list of opponents Carl faced.

You wont find many who will rank Carl as the better of the 2 let alone the best from these shores (which is Lennox for me)

[freddydoesdallas]

Someone has to be the pedant here. Collins is irish, not n.irish and I'm syhe wouldn't appreciate being called a brit!

[ALI]

Its one of our best divisions thats for sure.

The true elite are clearly from the USA however - Jones Jr, James Toney, Andre Ward.

[Old Jack J]

Meh, its the British and Irish board so i think we can class Collins as 'one of us' on boxrec.

[handsofstone]

It's certainly a division we have done well in and continue to do well in.

Although, when you say "Froch who becomes a great and arguably the best fighter from this country", I'd agree with the arguably bit

no matter who appears on the respective fighters CV, Joe beats Froch, Joe is better than Froch and Joe would have done as well, if not better against the same list of opponents Carl faced.

You wont find many who will rank Carl as the better of the 2 let alone the best from these shores (which is Lennox for me)

I mentioned in the OP that I meant when it comes to CV's Froch is the best,I think Calzaghe beats Carl too but when comparing resumes, then Froch pisses all over Joe

[freddydoesdallas]

Meh, its the British and Irish board so i think we can class Collins as 'one of us' on boxrec.

Of course that's true. The title though is 'Do brits own the smw division' not brits and irish! Like i said, I'm being a pedant but think it's required here.

[whiskey]

I mentioned in the OP that I meant when it comes to CV's Froch is the best,I think Calzaghe beats Carl too but when comparing resumes, then Froch pisses all over Joe

Possibly but Calzaghe did beat a prime Kessler, where as Froch lost then barely beat a somewhat over the hill Kessler.

Casual alert.

Kessler had a broken hand and his manager in a Cardiff intensive care unit on fight night.

they wanted to withdraw, but Wazza offered more money to go through with it.

Hence Joe not requiring sedation to be driven to the arena on the night.

Kessler's fault, he should have pulled out - no fault of Joes at all.

But "Prime" ?

[CheckHook]

Casual alert.

Kessler had a broken hand and his manager in a Cardiff intensive care unit on fight night.

they wanted to withdraw, but Wazza offered more money to go through with it.

Hence Joe not requiring sedation to be driven to the arena on the night.

Kessler's fault, he should have pulled out - no fault of Joes at all.

But "Prime" ?

I'd take the version of Kessler that Calzaghe beat over the version that Froch lost to any day of the week.

[Taansend]

Someone has to be the pedant here. Collins is irish, not n.irish and I'm syhe wouldn't appreciate being called a brit!

Ireland is part of the British Isles so geographically Collins is a Brit.

Obviously it's not politically . But why should we let politicians rule who we like or dislike?

Everyone from the islands is part of my extended family. I love you all

[Bobbyptsd]

Someone has to be the pedant here. Collins is irish, not n.irish and I'm syhe wouldn't appreciate being called a brit!

Ireland is part of the British Isles so geographically Collins is a Brit.

Obviously it's not politically . But why should we let politicians rule who we like or dislike?

Everyone from the islands is part of my extended family. I love you all

Politicians? Go ask people in Dublin if they are part of your British Isles. They have kind of gone to a fair bit of trouble to extrapolate themselves from all that.

[stevedoc]

Someone has to be the pedant here. Collins is irish, not n.irish and I'm syhe wouldn't appreciate being called a brit!

Ireland is part of the British Isles so geographically Collins is a Brit.

Obviously it's not politically . But why should we let politicians rule who we like or dislike?

Everyone from the islands is part of my extended family. I love you all

ireland isn't part of britain no more than cuba is part of the USA

[Horse]

Kessler's mother is English. Can we count him as well?

[banjo]

It's generally been a piss weak division though to be fair, with only a fleeting visit by the likes of Roy Jones Jr and James Toney.

[Old Jack J]

Didn't Mike Tyson have a Bulldog once?

[Taansend]

Someone has to be the pedant here. Collins is irish, not n.irish and I'm syhe wouldn't appreciate being called a brit!

Ireland is part of the British Isles so geographically Collins is a Brit.

Obviously it's not politically . But why should we let politicians rule who we like or dislike?

Everyone from the islands is part of my extended family. I love you all

Politicians? Go ask people in Dublin if they are part of your British Isles. They have kind of gone to a fair bit of trouble to extrapolate themselves from all that.

Hence the word GEOGRAPHICALLY. The British Isles includes Ireland. That's just the name for the collection of islands.

The POLITICAL side of things doesn't.. But I don't take any notice of politicians or religions so we're all kin in my eyes.

Others can fight wars to gain power or land, i just drink beer to make random friends in bars.

[IRLangmaid25]

Benn,Eubank,Collins,Catley,Woodhall,Reid,Calzaghe,Froch,DeGale, 9 fighters apologies if I've missed anyone

Benn and Eubank despite seeing better days rule the new division they both lose twice to Collins then he is champ,retires rather than fight an unbeaten, untested and unknown Calzaghe who wins the title and becomes a great,then Joe moves up rather than fight fight an unknown Froch who becomes a great and arguably the best fighter from this country,certainly when it comes to CV's,then Froch understandably avoids DeGale who's now world champ,

The pattern continues, Smith fights No1 Ward,Groves fights Jack and we have Callum

Some of those earlier guys are before my time so correct me if I'm wrong

Also have I missed anyone? Either way we rule the SMW division and 12 stone is the average weight for a brit

You have missed out one fighter. Murray Sutherland who won the IBF belt back in 1985 when the Super-Middleweight division was created. As for the division as whole there is an element of any everyman for the Super-Middleweight division here in Britain with the average British male being 5ft10 and weighing 12 stone.

[handsofstone]

Benn,Eubank,Collins,Catley,Woodhall,Reid,Calzaghe,Froch,DeGale, 9 fighters apologies if I've missed anyone

Benn and Eubank despite seeing better days rule the new division they both lose twice to Collins then he is champ,retires rather than fight an unbeaten, untested and unknown Calzaghe who wins the title and becomes a great,then Joe moves up rather than fight fight an unknown Froch who becomes a great and arguably the best fighter from this country,certainly when it comes to CV's,then Froch understandably avoids DeGale who's now world champ,

The pattern continues, Smith fights No1 Ward,Groves fights Jack and we have Callum

Some of those earlier guys are before my time so correct me if I'm wrong

Also have I missed anyone? Either way we rule the SMW division and 12 stone is the average weight for a brit

You have missed out one fighter. Murray Sutherland who won the IBF belt back in 1985 when the Super-Middleweight division was created. As for the division as whole there is an element of any everyman for the Super-Middleweight division here in Britain with the average British male being 5ft10 and weighing 12 stone.

I forgot about Sutherland,I remember starting a thread about him on here ,he done commentary in the States,I didn't know much about him

[Bobbyptsd]

Ireland is part of the British Isles so geographically Collins is a Brit.

Obviously it's not politically . But why should we let politicians rule who we like or dislike?

Everyone from the islands is part of my extended family. I love you all

Politicians? Go ask people in Dublin if they are part of your British Isles. They have kind of gone to a fair bit of trouble to extrapolate themselves from all that.

Hence the word GEOGRAPHICALLY. The British Isles includes Ireland. That's just the name for the collection of islands.

The POLITICAL side of things doesn't.. But I don't take any notice of politicians or religions so we're all kin in my eyes.

Others can fight wars to gain power or land, i just drink beer to make random friends in bars.

The point was, whether you take notice or not, the Irish do for the most part.

[stevedoc]

i have no memory of murray sutherland at all and got a shock when i looked him up ,the guys he fought were top draw like micheal spinks ,mathew said muhhamed and tommy hearns , i guess he fought out of america so that's why i don't remember him plus i was 13 at the time

[handsofstone]

i have no memory of murray sutherland at all and got a shock when i looked him up ,the guys he fought were top draw like micheal spinks ,mathew said muhhamed and tommy hearns , i guess he fought out of america so that's why i don't remember him plus i was 13 at the time

The first I heard of him was when watching the Tyson, Raw and Uncut series and hearing a scottish accent, then trying to find out who he was then I seen an interview ringside then found out he was a former world champ,as I said I started a topic on him and I'm sure someone said he still lives out in the states and runs a gym

[rd350lc]

However, apart from Calzaghe not one of the names above were ever regarded as the BEST in the division. Also until Calzaghe came along the so called WBO Super Middleweight title (and the WBO Middle Weight title for that matter) were little more than an 'alternate' British title.

I'd say the majority of Eubanks opponants on his fight every other week roadshow were not up to British title level

[Finn]

Why is it that Americans don't seem overly interested in the smw division and prefer with middle or light heavy? For many of us in Europe it the most exciting weight, it's certainly been my favourite weight class to watch.

[rd350lc]

Why is it that Americans don't seem overly interested in the smw division and prefer with middle or light heavy? For many of us in Europe it the most exciting weight, it's certainly been my favourite weight class to watch.

I reckon it's because in the last 15 years they havn't had one with the exception RJJR and James Toney worth watching

[Boxerbeetle]

Why is it that Americans don't seem overly interested in the smw division and prefer with middle or light heavy? For many of us in Europe it the most exciting weight, it's certainly been my favourite weight class to watch.

I reckon it's because in the last 15 years they havn't had one with the exception RJJR worth watching

There's always been a lot of snobbery towards super-middleweight in the US - they claim to primarily prefer & respect the traditional MW/LHW divisions (although as above, maybe it is just because they haven't produced many good ones ).