BB- I It's almost comical that Charles was past his prime when he lost to these guys, but some came up with one last great fight against Marciano. (actually they had two tough fights) That way it's still a big win(s) for Marciano, isn't it?
You can't have it both ways. Either he was washed up when lost these guys and was even worse when he fought Marciano, or he wasn't washed up when he fought these guys.
two tough fights???
in the 2nd fight, marciano dominated charles winning every round and knocking him down in the 2nd. besides the freak cut, the fight was not even close. charles came in at 192lb, and looked slower than in the first fight. he was clearly not the same fighter after that horrible beating he took 3 months prior in the 1st rocky fight.
i cant have it both ways??
charles was on the downcline after walcott fights. he was UNMOTIVATED and started showing up at fights overweight(over 190). against valdes who had a very spotty record at the time, charles was the heavy favorite and he obviosely didnt train very hard coming in overweight at 193lb.
however, charles responded with a brutal KO of bob satterfield and in mid 1954 the RING ratings had charles # 1 contender. he was given his last shot at glory. jim norris made sure charles got the shot, u see norris was very happy with the way charles constantley defended his heavyweight title when he was champion and always followed norris orders. norris wanted to repay charles for what he did in his title reign. when charles knocked out back to back contenders coley wallace and bob satterfield, he firmly established himself a title shot and # 1 contender. as charles said "this is a chance of a lifetime." so charles trained very hard like he hadnt been in years. he came MOTIVATED like he hadnt been since he last had the title. charles friends called him "the new charles" who was a more focused and passionate fighter who had a fresh mental determination to go along with his established physical skills. charles hadnt gotten in his respect during his title reign, and he always wanted that profound respect he never gotten. he knew this was his last chance to earn that respect and a great preformance vs a popular respected champion like marciano would give him that. before the fight, some of the press said the "new charles" was simply the same charles who was over the hill physically.
during the fight, charles showed the greatest display of stamina, and heart he ever did in his entire career. he boxed great in the early rounds, he was on his toes and looked smooth, smart and effective. rocky started to where charles down and after landing a adams apple punch which really affected charles, he started to grind down charles and beat on him. still both fights fought a marvelous battle on the inside trading big punches in the mid rounds. charles showed to the world something he has never showed before. he showed that he was a warrior who could take punishment and keep coming back to fight a life and death battle . the last 5 rounds marciano beat on charles who somehow stayed on his feet without going down. charles was on a mission that night. He showed great skills in the early rounds and ring smarts, and then incredible heart and guts in the late rounds by not only taking huge punishment but dishing back in return. he earned the respect from the boxing fans that night.
charles trainer said "if he hadnt been hit by that adams apple punch he would have won. the punch took all the life out of him, he couldnt swallow.
perhaps why accorind to reporter red smith, "there were times when charles sitting in his corner, looked as though he wanted to cry with discouragement and pain. but somehow he fought on."
while charles gained respect, marciano was critizied by many for failing to score a knockout over a fading charles. i think of it the other way as do other reporters(at the time) as an enhancement to marcianos legacy because he showed he could go 15 hard rounds with an incredible champion at an incredible pace and punch rate.
marciano said "i was overtrained" and would label it his "worst fight." i disagree with rocky, i thought he fought one of the best fights of his career. i simply think marciano fought a focus and determined man who was willing to do whatever he could to win. marciano trained for this fight for 8 months, an incredible long time. in the charles fight, marciano did a punch rate few heavyweights could match in 15 rounds. many fans today hold this fight against rocky but IMO i think in more ways than not, it enahcnes his legacy.
wilfred smith said after "charles undoubtably offered the greatest fight of his long career, charles was the man who rose to greater heights."
charles removed all doubts about his determination and will to win what wendell smith called " gallant, heroic, violent bid.....here was a man who lost the battle but won the respect of everyone....here was a man with great dignity, courage, and unrevealed spiritual and mental strength."
no one, not even his few ardent supporters in the press said that about charles before this fight. now everyone was saying it.
whitney martin said it was "charles finest hour" because "he could submerge his imagination and kindly nature and allow the primitive brute that is in every man to rise to the surface."
since u think charles was the same charles who had recnetley lost to valdes............
"no man could have lasted 15 rounds with ezzard charles that night let alone win the decision"- Boxing and Wrestling news about the first marciano-charles fight
of the charles-valdes bout, the new york times reported "charles weighed in the
heaviest of his career and slowed down as the fight wore on."
the new york times reported of the marciano-charles I fight
"althouth he was plainly defeated, he made one of the best showins of his career."
new york times also stated of the marciano vs charles I fight,
"only the fact that he was in the best condition was he able o go through the gruelling fifteen rounds without hitting the canvas."
i did not say marciano beat a prime charles, he didnt. charles was at his peak when he knocked out great heavyweight elmer ray in 1948. but he beat a better version of charles than the one who recentley fought nino valdes. that was an overweight, unmotivated and overconfident charles in a NON TITLE fight. as cus d amato said "all great fighters have one last great fight in them." it was charles last hurrah, it was an incredible preformance one of the best fought fights of his career.
notice how in the rematch, marciano dominates and easily beats charles in 8 rounds outside of one freak cut. would u like to explain to me how rocky beat him much easier in the rematch?
-just to let u know charles fought layne 3 times clearly winning 2 of the fights and the one layne won was a very sketchky decision. in fact, only the ref(which was jack dempsey) scored the fight. he scored it like 2-1 layne with 7 rounds EVEN! demsey happened to be a friend and admirer of layne. charles fought layne in 51 where layne was at his peak, and charles brutally knocked out layne in 51. charles was clearly better in 51 in the first fights than in there 2nd and 3rd fights.
charles was not in his prime when he fought marciano, but marcianos win in that first charles fight meant a lot more than valdes, johnson, laynes win over charles. that was a in shape, focused, motivated charles that fought rock. marciano beat a damm good version of charles in that first fight.
Now Elmer Ray is a great? Is there any heavyweight in the 1940's that wasn't?
I mean did Charles prime as a heavyweight really only last 3 years? I thought only Mike Tyson could use the short prime excuse for his losses.
i been doing my top 50 heavyweight of all time rankings, and though im not finished, i have elmer ray ranked in my top 30 heavyweights of all time. elmer ray is hugely underated. look at his peak years 40-47 he was a great fighter. he was a latebloomer. ray beat a peak charles and walcott. lee savold when he fought ray was a top contender who had knocked been knocked out in his 14 year career. ray knocked the very durable savold out. elmer ray was in the RINGS top 100 greatest punchers of all time. ray was a boxer-puncher who not only was a devastating puncher, but had solid boxing skills and defense. 6'2 200lb of muscle.
herbert goldman ranks elmer ray in his top 20 heavyweights of all time
charles marciano preformance kind of reminds me of john contehs first fight with mathew saad muhammad where though conteh was viewed on the downcline, he fought an incredible fight. in the rematch he was soundily defeated.
it also reminds me of dwight muhammad qawis preformance vs holyfield. qawi was viewed battle worn and fading. but he fought one of the greatest fights of his career vs holyfield. then in the rematch, holyfield dominated qawi.
these gruelling wars took everything out of conteh, qawi, charles.
i have tape of charles 46-49 those were his peak years. he looked incredible on film in those years, an absolute amazing ring technician
